If You Trulely Believed You Witnessed Something Unearthly Would You Tell?

BmanMcfly said:

Of course, I would only want a valid claim to be paid out on, there are far too many scam artists out there.

Here's the problem; let's take the example of the repeated experiments that showed the weak but very significant effect of being able to "sense" when being watched.

So, you setup the experiment according to randi ' s conditions, and suddenly realize that he is demanding that you demonstrate a p value that is 1000 times more significant than has already been established to prove to the sceptic that this is a real effect, which means scaling up your experiment by the same amount, at your own expense, and then, as randi has done a few times in his challenge was to, in the middle of the challenge change some stuff to try to "trick" the challenger....

So ya, I don't think that he ever intended his prize to be paid out because he controls the conditions to payout and just had to set unreasonable expectations of an effect that might already be weak in the best of circumstances.

Click to expand...

It would be very easy to do. Anyone who claims they have that ability would simply need to be tested, under controlled conditions, where they can identify if someone is looking at them at a rate significantly higher than chance. If you can't do that, you have no demonstrable ability. They've done the same thing with psychics and the psychics have all failed to perform any better than if they had just been guessing.

Cephus said:

It would be very easy to do. Anyone who claims they have that ability would simply need to be tested, under controlled conditions, where they can identify if someone is looking at them at a rate significantly higher than chance. If you can't do that, you have no demonstrable ability. They've done the same thing with psychics and the psychics have all failed to perform any better than if they had just been guessing.

Click to expand...

From what I understand, it's also agreed upon between the applicant and the test givers about how the test will go about, and what will constitute as winning.

BmanMcfly said:

Randi will never pay out, he's designed the challenge in such a way that nothing could ever surpass the scrutiny.

Click to expand...

I read the rules and didn't see any that weren't necessary for a legitimate result. Which rules do you think are unfair?

Jayhawker30 said:

From what I understand, it's also agreed upon between the applicant and the test givers about how the test will go about, and what will constitute as winning.

Click to expand...

Cephus said:

It would be very easy to do. Anyone who claims they have that ability would simply need to be tested, under controlled conditions, where they can identify if someone is looking at them at a rate significantly higher than chance. If you can't do that, you have no demonstrable ability. They've done the same thing with psychics and the psychics have all failed to perform any better than if they had just been guessing.

Click to expand...

Hard Truth said:

I read the rules and didn't see any that weren't necessary for a legitimate result. Which rules do you think are unfair?

Click to expand...

Yes, the conditions are all agreed upon, and other measures to give the semblance of a legitimate contest... Most of the challenges never even make it.

Usually because the conditions demanded far exceed what they are able to produce, and are far beyond what would be expected of a scientific review.

BmanMcfly said:

Your the first person I've ever heard try to say that paying out a million dollars would be a gain.

Click to expand...

Intel paid out over a billion to their rival and they still made money off the deal! Where the hell of you been the last decade? It sure wasn't reading the business section.

MoSurveyor said:

Intel paid out over a billion to their rival and they still made money off the deal! Where the hell of you been the last decade? It sure wasn't reading the business section.

Click to expand...

Ok, how does that relate to this?

My answer is no. Why would I? Doing so accomplishes nothing.

As early as she could speak, my wife as a little girl spoke of metaphysical realities, beings, and other such topics as absolute truisms and as if on exact personal knowledge. This went beyond anything of normal child fantasy and with consistent and voluminous detail. She soon realized and this also urged by her parents to stop talking about it. However, she exhibited some physical abilities that were not in any manner supernatural, but were supportive that her senses and knowledge of how this reality of being a human on earth differs. While not any manner of proof of anything, between age 8 and 19 in various forms of athletic competitions she won every national and international competition she entered. Although she never spoke of it and she practiced to extreme degrees, some of her different senses of time, movement and so forth were tested and found to be extraordinary.

They could sling out a basket full of an unknown number of ping pong balls in front her and she could say exactly how many there were. 147. 136. 181. She also can juggle dozens of objects at the same time. As a very young child she used to complain about how "thick" air is, how "slow" everything moves, how slow her body moved and such topics. Yet all that proves nothing and only would put her into the role of freak or oddity. So she never speaks of it to anyone. However, it is at the core of all her perspectives and even how she sees people, animals, the purpose of her life, me and our children.

No matter what you see, there is no benefit in telling anyone about it unless you really want to. I would guess most people would listen for a while, and then say "yeah, something really strange happened to me too" and tell their story.

MoSurveyor said:

Intel paid out over a billion to their rival and they still made money off the deal! Where the hell of you been the last decade? It sure wasn't reading the business section.

Click to expand...

Giving the money wouldn't even be a loss to him anyways. It was raised up by the skeptic community and placed into this private fund thing wrapped up tight in some bank or wherever.

Basically, it's not really money to him or anyone else that put into it, keep or lose. Just a really lucrative lure, and for most in the hardcore skeptic demographic, their own standing trophy of victory worth $1,000,000 in bragging rights.

BmanMcfly said:

Yes, the conditions are all agreed upon, and other measures to give the semblance of a legitimate contest... Most of the challenges never even make it.

Usually because the conditions demanded far exceed what they are able to produce, and are far beyond what would be expected of a scientific review.

Click to expand...

The problem is, if they're not able to produce any testable results, then they really don't have any magical, supernatural powers to begin with. If they can't make a testable claim, what are they trying for the Randi prize for in the first place?

BmanMcfly said:

Your the first person I've ever heard try to say that paying out a million dollars would be a gain.

Click to expand...

I've not made such a claim, he's not paying out he's trading to his benefit. The knowledge of a truly supernatural ability is not only worth more than a million dollars, it warrants study and research.

You also didn't answer how he has "designed the challenge in such a way that nothing could ever surpass the scrutiny."

BmanMcfly said:

Ok, how does that relate to this?

Click to expand...

I thought that was obvious.
"Paying out" - even being forced to pay out - doesn't always mean losing money.

Jayhawker30 said:

Giving the money wouldn't even be a loss to him anyways. It was raised up by the skeptic community and placed into this private fund thing wrapped up tight in some bank or wherever.

Basically, it's not really money to him or anyone else that put into it, keep or lose. Just a really lucrative lure, and for most in the hardcore skeptic demographic, their own standing trophy of victory worth $1,000,000 in bragging rights.

Click to expand...

Ya, I realize that now, but regardless, there's ego tied to that million, the money is just the symbol really.

MoSurveyor said:

I thought that was obvious.
"Paying out" - even being forced to pay out - doesn't always mean losing money.

Click to expand...

Well, ya, But I'm just saying that This isn't really that case, it's more like a bet, the expectation being that he would not be convinced.

It's a common "skeptic" trait. Of course, there's skepticism that is required, but that's different.

Lachean said:

I've not made such a claim, he's not paying out he's trading to his benefit. The knowledge of a truly supernatural ability is not only worth more than a million dollars, it warrants study and research.

You also didn't answer how he has "designed the challenge in such a way that nothing could ever surpass the scrutiny."

Click to expand...

If you are going to ignore that this has been a topic of study for something like 150 years. Ultimately, with typical scientific scrutiny, there are a variety of "effects" that have been studied have been shown in many cases to be real, just they are weak, but highly statistically significant.

Ex: altering the values generated by random number generators. The p value worked out to be .035 or in that range.

(This same effect worked to demonstrate that the effects are not necessarily time linear)

Cephus said:

The problem is, if they're not able to produce any testable results, then they really don't have any magical, supernatural powers to begin with. If they can't make a testable claim, what are they trying for the Randi prize for in the first place?

Click to expand...

Ya, and I don't mean to accept as real things that are not testable... really, there have been too many scam artists out there to take these claims at face value...

I'd keep it to myself.

That was Pi's problem in The Life of Pi. There was no meerkat island. He dreamed that part when he became delirious. It seemed real to him, so he told about that scene after he was rescued. That caused his rescuers to think that he had made the whole story up. It was already hard for them to believe that he had spent that much time in the lifeboat/raft with a Bengal Tiger.

rhinefire said:

For fear of being ridiculed and or being called crazy if you and you alone saw something so unlike anything ever witnessed by anyone before would you tell and would you tell everyone or just family and friends?

Click to expand...

I keep that stuff to myself. I know from experience to expect ridicule from the majority. Not that I give a ****, but there's little point in disclosing such impressions unless in a professional capacity.