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Why Creation Remains Nothing Lie We Once Believed

Cephus said:
No, there's no reason to think that they can possibly avoid death. People need to come to grips with reality and accept what actually is instead of clinging to fairy tales that promise to do absurd things. Wishful thinking doesn't change reality.
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actually they don't need to do anything in that case it will all be ok in a little while no matter what you do unless things are not how they seem for no apparent reason what so ever
 
MoSurveyor said:
???? Schrodinger's Cat is certainly an idea of QM/QED but it's not what physicists refer to as 'quantum foam' - or 'quantum jitters' as Brain Greene sometimes calls it.
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I've been to AUs where Scrödenger had a dog, a mouse, a tarantula and an elephant. Needless to say, the elephant went way over budget.
 
Cephus said:
No, there's no reason to think that they can possibly avoid death. People need to come to grips with reality and accept what actually is instead of clinging to fairy tales that promise to do absurd things. Wishful thinking doesn't change reality.
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Ah, because you say so?

When I was younger, I couldn't understand why everybody didn't agree with me about everything. That hasn't changed in my dotage but the difference is that I no longer care.

Assuming you're American, you live in a country where you appoint your leaders on the basis of promises. So, how is that any different?
 
MoSurveyor said:
What do you think quantum foam has to do with multiple universes?
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According to scientists quantum foam is vacuum fluctuations at the quantum level, which is where particle antiparticle pairs spontaneously appear out of "nothing". It is possibly the origin of the big bang singularity. It's just a theory...
 
blarg said:
actually they don't need to do anything in that case it will all be ok in a little while no matter what you do unless things are not how they seem for no apparent reason what so ever
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Well yeah, people can do whatever stupid nonsense they want to do, nobody can force them to be rational, intelligent or critical. People can run out in traffic if they want to, they can jump off buildings if they want to. Is there a point to advocating that people act stupidly?
 
specklebang said:
Ah, because you say so?

When I was younger, I couldn't understand why everybody didn't agree with me about everything. That hasn't changed in my dotage but the difference is that I no longer care.

Assuming you're American, you live in a country where you appoint your leaders on the basis of promises. So, how is that any different?
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Because reality says so. I don't matter. If I tell you not to jump off the top of a tall building because you'll fall to your death because of gravity and you do it anyhow and die, it wasn't my fault. You ignored reality. This isn't about agreeing with any particular individual, it's about dealing with things that are entirely beyond your control or my control.

The fact that I have to explain that to you is really quite sad.
 
Cephus said:
Because reality says so. I don't matter. If I tell you not to jump off the top of a tall building because you'll fall to your death because of gravity and you do it anyhow and die, it wasn't my fault. You ignored reality. This isn't about agreeing with any particular individual, it's about dealing with things that are entirely beyond your control or my control.

The fact that I have to explain that to you is really quite sad.
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No, the fact that you think you have to explain this to me is what is sad. You seem to be completely missing my point and equating my explanation of harmless religious beliefs is hardly analogous to jumping off highrise buildings.
 
Manny said:
According to scientists quantum foam is vacuum fluctuations at the quantum level, which is where particle antiparticle pairs spontaneously appear out of "nothing". It is possibly the origin of the big bang singularity. It's just a theory...
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And what does that have to do with multiple universes?


I'm not sure about the Big Bang aspect - I think you may be misunderstanding something there.
 
specklebang said:
Sorry. AUs not aus. As in Alternate Universes.
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It was originally capped, I don't know why the quote came out that way.

That's funny about the elephant ... :lol:
 
MoSurveyor said:
And what does that have to do with multiple universes?


I'm not sure about the Big Bang aspect - I think you may be misunderstanding something there.
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I don't see how multiple universes without beginning or end prove anything? As a matter of fact I can't imagine a universe with no beginning?
 
specklebang said:
No, the fact that you think you have to explain this to me is what is sad. You seem to be completely missing my point and equating my explanation of harmless religious beliefs is hardly analogous to jumping off highrise buildings.
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Just as a side note:
IMO - they quit being harmless when they try to make their way into government or the public classroom.
 
grip said:
I don't see how multiple universes without beginning or end prove anything? As a matter of fact I can't imagine a universe with no beginning?
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I don't know of anyone that still believes in the Steady State theory. All universes have a beginning as far as I know about current thoughts on the subject.


The ending? Well, if it's what they think now then there is no actual ending. As time moves on the universe spreads out farther and farther. Star stuff breaks down to particles that can no longer combine into complex systems. In other words, it's a cold, dark universe where entropy has finally won - and it just keeps expanding. Some have conjectured that space may start "ripping" at some point but there's nothing solid to back that up, not even any math on the subject.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I don't know of anyone that still believes in the Steady State theory. All universes have a beginning as far as I know about current thoughts on the subject.


The ending? Well, if it's what they think now then there is no actual ending. As time moves on the universe spreads out farther and farther. Star stuff breaks down to particles that can no longer combine into complex systems. In other words, it's a cold, dark universe where entropy has finally won - and it just keeps expanding. Some have conjectured that space may start "ripping" at some point but there's nothing solid to back that up, not even any math on the subject.
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I've never seen math that explains the beginning. The bubble theory is one of the least probable in current thinking.
 
grip said:
I've never seen math that explains the beginning. The bubble theory is one of the least probable in current thinking.
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You mean the "Big Bang" itself? There isn't any to my knowledge, either.
 
MoSurveyor said:
You mean the "Big Bang" itself? There isn't any to my knowledge, either.
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One of the weirdest parts of the originators of the Big Bang is that it came from nothing. Everything there is appeared from nowhere, like magic? :lol:
 
grip said:
One of the weirdest parts of the originators of the Big Bang is that it came from nothing. Everything there is appeared from nowhere, like magic? :lol:
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But it's always been that way - even the Steady State has that issue.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Just as a side note:
IMO - they quit being harmless when they try to make their way into government or the public classroom.
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Religions are the original forms of government as we know it today.

Our country has agreed from inception that the various formats of religious beliefs are to be kept separated from secular governance. But if you look at the roots of religions, you'll see that our entire government is based on them. 9 of the 10 commandments are an integral part of our laws. And for all our claims of separation - you notice how god appears everywhere including our currency.

Now, some religions have their own rules and there are efforts to impose those rules on everyone. But that is really relatively rare. For the most part, the rules are the same. Some have been completely dismissed (when was the last time anyone got in trouble for adultery, coveting or failing to honor their parents?).

A religious sect is really no different than an alternative political party. They offer both good and bad and we hope we have the wisdom to know the difference.
 
specklebang said:
No, the fact that you think you have to explain this to me is what is sad. You seem to be completely missing my point and equating my explanation of harmless religious beliefs is hardly analogous to jumping off highrise buildings.
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Someone obviously has to explain it to you because you don't get it otherwise. And no, religious beliefs are not harmless, they are never harmless, if nothing else, they betray a willingness to engage in magical thinking and to reject reality in favor of one's emotional comfort. People who engage in religious beliefs also have a much, much higher rate of believing in other nonsensical woo, like psychics, ghosts, Bigfoot and alien abductions. If this planet is going to get anywhere, it is only going to be by rational means. A recent study showed that while violent crime is down worldwide, religious violence is on the rise. That's why rational people need to challenge religious belief at every turn, it demonstrably harms people.
 
MoSurveyor said:
And what does that have to do with multiple universes?


I'm not sure about the Big Bang aspect - I think you may be misunderstanding something there.
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Because universes gets created this way according to the model
 
grip said:
One of the weirdest parts of the originators of the Big Bang is that it came from nothing. Everything there is appeared from nowhere, like magic? :lol:
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It's somewhat of a misconception. If we can believe the model, there is this phenomenon called quantum vacuum fluctuations. What that means is, the energy of vacuum is not totally zero. There is a small amount of energy there, and this energy is fluctuating. Scientific theory implies that virtual particles are being created by this. They are particle-antiparticle pairs that annihilate one another but they do so in a very short amount of time. Shorter than the planck time, that is why they are considered 'virtual' in that they do not exist within the normal definition of bosonic matter of our universe. Hence they are not real. Thats what the nothing is.

That's how I interpret it. I'm no scientist, just read stuff that's all scientifical sometimes.
 
grip said:
One of the weirdest parts of the originators of the Big Bang is that it came from nothing. Everything there is appeared from nowhere, like magic? :lol:
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Please quote and reference these people who say the Big Bang came from a literal nothing. I've yet to see anyone who has ever done so.
 
Cephus said:
Well yeah, people can do whatever stupid nonsense they want to do, nobody can force them to be rational, intelligent or critical. People can run out in traffic if they want to, they can jump off buildings if they want to. Is there a point to advocating that people act stupidly?
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not seining why its so stupid to do any of that its all the same sooner or later apparently

now living might be stupid and its a kind of stupid im very much behind but form my perspective were all probably ****ed any way and nothing masters much in of itself

if you think about it which I try not to its depressing
 
Cephus said:
Because reality says so. I don't matter. If I tell you not to jump off the top of a tall building because you'll fall to your death because of gravity and you do it anyhow and die, it wasn't my fault. You ignored reality. This isn't about agreeing with any particular individual, it's about dealing with things that are entirely beyond your control or my control.

The fact that I have to explain that to you is really quite sad.
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no good I could be crazy and only imaging your telling me this it would explain the unicorn made out of sourcroute
 
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