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The soul

Which do you believe is most correct?

  • The sould exists as argued by Aristotle an Aquinas

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • The soul exists as argued by Plato

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • The soul exists as posited by pantheism

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The soul exists as posited by monism

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The soul exists as a physical phenomenon

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The soul does not exist

    Votes: 19 57.6%

  • The soul exists as posited by animism

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • Human beings have material, rather than spiritual, souls

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Pumpkin

    Votes: 8 24.2%

  • other

    Votes: 3 9.1%
  • Total voters
    33
  • This poll will close: .
MoSurveyor said:
In some cases their actions (away from their spouse) are so obvious it requires no modern technology to tell there is no love there. (You must be really young not to know this.) Even so, an fMRI could tell. The brain pattern would be different.

I won't discuss my personal life with a stranger - or even an acquaintance, for that matter.

Many patients/people have fallen in love with their doctor, nurse, or rescuer. It goes beyond simple gratitude, sometimes.
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You made the statement that when it comes to love, "some people are lying and others aren't." That statement seems to contradict a previous statment you made in which you claim that love is an emotional instinct and varies from person to person. So, since you have claimed that love can be measured in degrees, what degree have you arbitrarily designated as that of non-love, and how did you arrive at that determination?

And you are still mistaking extreme gratitude for love. However, it is true that people tend to obsess on the person who has saved their life.

And I'm not asking you to discuss your personal life. I simply asked you what you mean when you tell your spouse that you love them. Is it definable, or is it beyond description?
 
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Sadling said:
You made the statement that when it comes to love, "some people are lying and others aren't." That statement seems to contradict a previous statment you made in which you claim that love is an emotional instinct and varies from person to person. So, since you have claimed that love can be measured in degrees, what degree have you arbitrarily designated as that of non-love, and how did you arrive at that determination?
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I didn't say "in degrees". I said there are different kinds of love and that's detectable - each has it's pattern. Parent/child love is different than romantic love, for example. If there is no love, then obviously there will be no such pattern on the fMRI.


Sadling said:
And I'm not asking you to discuss your personal life. I simply asked you what you mean when you tell your spouse that you love them. Is it definable, or is it beyond description?
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I believe it's definable in English, if that's what you're asking. I don't know for a fact one way or the other, though. Psychology as a stand-alone doesn't really interest me.
 
Paleocon said:
I didn't say that an animal soul is made of matter, only that it is material by nature.
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Could you define the difference between something 'material by nature' and something 'composed of matter'? Those two things sound synonymous to me.
 
Andalublue said:
Could you define the difference between something 'material by nature' and something 'composed of matter'? Those two things sound synonymous to me.
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An animal soul is material by nature since it relates only to matter, but that doesn't mean that it is made of matter. As an analogy, gravity is material by nature (it relates only to material things), yet it isn't made of matter. So just as no one would claim that gravity is spiritual, even though it isn't composed of matter, animal souls should not be considered to be spiritual.
 
Paleocon said:
An animal soul is material by nature since it relates only to matter, but that doesn't mean that it is made of matter. As an analogy, gravity is material by nature (it relates only to material things), yet it isn't made of matter. So just as no one would claim that gravity is spiritual, even though it isn't composed of matter, animal souls should not be considered to be spiritual.
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Would you please define "matter" as you're using it here. A physicist's definition is very specific and I don't think that's what you're using.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Would you please define "matter" as you're using it here. A physicist's definition is very specific and I don't think that's what you're using.
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A physical object. (Broad sense of the word object)
 
MoSurveyor said:
That's just delusional. Everything we experience is subject to illusions and delusions. Without outside validation of some kind there's simply no way to know what is and isn't real.
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Excuse me, but you have a lot to learn...... Why would I need outside validation of any kind for my own validating experiences......You are not making any sense.. Do you think that all spiritualists are hallucinating?
 
Cephus said:
Says the person who believes in imaginary friends and psychics... :roll:
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You can ridicule all you want, but if you are too afraid to check it out, don't come crying to me when spirit makes things go wacky at your house...
 
Juanita said:
You can ridicule all you want, but if you are too afraid to check it out, don't come crying to me when spirit makes things go wacky at your house...
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What makes you think I haven't already checked it out? I have and you still haven't got a shred of evidence.
 
Paleocon said:
A physical object. (Broad sense of the word object)
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In a broad sense there is no difference between energy and matter. The definition physicists use differentiate between them but in general, matter is just a tight bundle of energy.
 
Juanita said:
Excuse me, but you have a lot to learn...... Why would I need outside validation of any kind for my own validating experiences......You are not making any sense.. Do you think that all spiritualists are hallucinating?
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It's very probable - though I wouldn't label it "hallucinating" any more than I would call an optical illusion an hallucination. It's just your mind trying to fit what it's experiencing into something it can explain. This doesn't make the experience magical, mystical, spiritual, or divine in any way.



PS
I believe it's you displaying a lack of knowledge, here, and because of that lack your mind is inventing explanations instead of you striving to empirically discover them.
 
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MoSurveyor said:
In a broad sense there is no difference between energy and matter. The definition physicists use differentiate between them but in general, matter is just a tight bundle of energy.
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In the philosophical sense, I believe that both would be considered matter, since they are both physical things.
 
Paleocon said:
In the philosophical sense, I believe that both would be considered matter, since they are both physical things.
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It doesn't make a difference which label you stick on it. IN a general sense, matter and energy are the same thing. If you want to call energy "watered down" matter or "less dense" matter that's up to you.
 
MoSurveyor said:
It's very probable - though I wouldn't label it "hallucinating" any more than I would call an optical illusion an hallucination. It's just your mind trying to fit what it's experiencing into something it can explain. This doesn't make the experience magical, mystical, spiritual, or divine in any way.



PS
I believe it's you displaying a lack of knowledge, here, and because of that lack your mind is inventing explanations instead of you striving to empirically discover them.
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I have more knowledge about spirit than you will ever have.... Your mind is just not capable of comprehending anything that does not fit into the science box.... That is your reality but not mine or the millions of spiritualists and spiritists throughout the world.....Adios
 
Juanita said:
I have more knowledge about spirit than you will ever have.... Your mind is just not capable of comprehending anything that does not fit into the science box.... That is your reality but not mine or the millions of spiritualists and spiritists throughout the world.....Adios
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And lots of modesty, too, I see!!! :lamo


Savage ignorant has been around for ~40,000 years, best as we can guess - but I'm sure the spirits already told you that.
 
Juanita said:
I have more knowledge about spirit than you will ever have.... Your mind is just not capable of comprehending anything that does not fit into the science box.... That is your reality but not mine or the millions of spiritualists and spiritists throughout the world.....Adios
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I can probably be counted amongst those ranks, but I see no point in throwing weight around about this.

This is a world chock full of people all too often weaving differing tales of magic and wonder and about how their perception of reality is absolutely the one, and until others find their own personal reasons to find merit in one side or another, then what you claim to be true, no matter how real you know it to be, will be discarded as quickly as any other preacher who is doing the same. And I wouldn't fault them for dismissing them.
 
Jayhawker30 said:
I can probably be counted amongst those ranks, but I see no point in throwing weight around about this.

This is a world chock full of people all too often weaving differing tales of magic and wonder and about how their perception of reality is absolutely the one, and until others find their own personal reasons to find merit in one side or another, then what you claim to be true, no matter how real you know it to be, will be discarded as quickly as any other preacher who is doing the same. And I wouldn't fault them for dismissing them.
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Actually, I have said this over and over, that it is based on personal experience and thus can not be proved to skeptics or nonbelievers....Unfortunately, all that does is bring ridicule for the simple reason that what people do not understand, they fear.......
 
MoSurveyor said:
And lots of modesty, too, I see!!! :lamo


Savage ignorant has been around for ~40,000 years, best as we can guess - but I'm sure the spirits already told you
that.
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.



Modesty? No, just truth....You have admitted to a lack of belief in Spirit, thus how can you know anything about it at all?
 
Juanita said:
Modesty? No, just truth....You have admitted to a lack of belief in Spirit, thus how can you know anything about it at all?
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One - I haven't admitted that, even though it's somewhat true. I said right up front that we're a long way from knowing everything, which leaves a lot of room for new discoveries, including maybe "spirit" as you call it. I'm just not willing to assign "spirit" to some mystical hole of savage ignorance. If it's real then in time science will discover it's roots. If it's an illusion then science will discover exactly what it is you're experiencing and why you believe it's mystical. From what I've seen recently, science is headed that way right now as we explore the brain and it's workings in various circumstances. We've taken the first steps to identifying emotions, we've seen how "near death experience" can be repeated in a lab, and I see no reason to presume your "spirits" will remain a mystery, either.


Two - Unless you got your information about my future from the Spirits, and I'd bet good money it was anger not spiritual knowledge, then you have no idea what the future might hold for anyone, especially a stranger you've never met in person. My comment was well justified. Maybe you should consult with your Spirit Guide to help you find out where you went astray.
 
MoSurveyor said:
One - I haven't admitted that, even though it's somewhat true. I said right up front that we're a long way from knowing everything, which leaves a lot of room for new discoveries, including maybe "spirit" as you call it. I'm just not willing to assign "spirit" to some mystical hole of savage ignorance. If it's real then in time science will discover it's roots. If it's an illusion then science will discover exactly what it is you're experiencing and why you believe it's mystical. From what I've seen recently, science is headed that way right now as we explore the brain and it's workings in various circumstances. We've taken the first steps to identifying emotions, we've seen how "near death experience" can be repeated in a lab, and I see no reason to presume your "spirits" will remain a mystery, either.


Two - Unless you got your information about my future from the Spirits, and I'd bet good money it was anger not spiritual knowledge, then you have no idea what the future might hold for anyone, especially a stranger you've never met in person. My comment was well justified. Maybe you should consult with your Spirit Guide to help you find out where you went astray.
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I doubt very much that I have ever used the word "mystical"....Neither do I have any knowledge of the future, yours or anyone else's, so don't know what you are referring to... I don't see where I have gone astray in any way whatsoever... You say that NDEs have been recreated in a lab, but I don't see what difference it makes. Many people can OBE at will which shows that there "is" some sort of trigger or stimulation involved....so I don't see what difference that it makes...
 
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