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Jahi McMath To be Removed from Life Support

calamity said:
Should she have been more closely monitored? Seems odd that someone so young can just die from complications when they are already in a hospital.
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Hard to say for sure. It would be my guess that the care she received was pretty standard. Typically, after surgery, you are recovered for about an hour in post-op anesthesia, then return to the regular care unit, where you are monitored about hourly, until it has been determined that you are stable. I have seen tonsillectomy patients which had to be taken back to OR for excessive bleeding, but I have not seen this extent of injury with normal monitoring. Either she bled out rapidly, or she wasn't being watched adequately after surgery.
 
rocket88 said:
I agree, I just don't think anybody should have the authority to overrule the parents (in the case of a minor).
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I suspect the issue at play here, is the question of who is going to pay for the care. The main issue to me (personally) would be the question of how I could stand to watch my child live in that condition? I know it is heart-wrenching to lose a child, as I have lost one myself, but I could not, in good conscience, stand to see my child living a life which was so dependent on medical technology, unless there was a chance of recovery. I don't believe that the family has a good understanding of just what they are seeing right now.
 
lizzie said:
Hard to say for sure. It would be my guess that the care she received was pretty standard. Typically, after surgery, you are recovered for about an hour in post-op anesthesia, then return to the regular care unit, where you are monitored about hourly, until it has been determined that you are stable. I have seen tonsillectomy patients which had to be taken back to OR for excessive bleeding, but I have not seen this extent of injury with normal monitoring. Either she bled out rapidly, or she wasn't being watched adequately after surgery.
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I agree. Something unusual happened. Whether it was due to her health condition or hospital negligence is for a judge or jury to decide.
 
calamity said:
I agree. Something very unusual happened.
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Did this happen in the post-op recovery period, or after she was returned to the regular care unit? I don't think I've seen it mentioned in the couple of articles I have read.
 
calamity said:
A tonsillectomy goes wrong as the patient begins bleeding profusely while in recovery. She get a heart attack and her brain dies. The hospital wants to cut her off life support; the parent's take it to court and get a temporary injunction.

I think it's been three weeks. No improvement has been observed with the patient. So, it's safe to say the brain is officially dead.

Today the injunction expires, and the machines will probably be unplugged.
BBC News - Jahi McMath: Time running out for US girl 'brain dead' after tonsillectomy

Opinions: Good, Bad or Ugly?


I think it's the right call. What say you?
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It sounds like the right call, but who are we to say?

This is a decision that should be made by the parents,who have my sympathy.
 
lizzie said:
I would pull the plug, but if the parents/family can pay for long-term care, then the choice should be theirs.
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Absolutely it should be the parents choice. Like Terry Shavio, what's the rush to put her in the ground?
 
lizzie said:
Did this happen in the post-op recovery period, or after she was returned to the regular care unit? I don't think I've seen it mentioned in the couple of articles I have read.
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I believe she was in a regular hospital room after recovery.
n further addressing her daughter’s death, Nailah Winkfield told hospital staff failed to provide adequate care and attention to Jahi.

Upon having undergone surgery and by then recovering, the girl began to bleed from her nose and mouth.

Told Winkfield: ‘My daughter had actual clots sliding out of her mouth and they gave me a cup and said, “Here, catch them with the cup so we can measure them,’

It wasn’t until the mother started screaming that nurses at last reacted to Winkfield.

Reiterated Winkfield: ‘I was the last one to see Jahi,’

’I said, “Somebody help my baby please!” And they came in and starting working on her. The next thing I know, the doctor said, “Oh no, she doesn’t have a heart rate anymore.”

Added Omari Sealey: ‘There was a lack of urgency,’

Scallywag and Vagabond | Why is Jahi McMath, 13 year old brain dead girl after tonsil surgery taken off life support against family wishes?
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nota bene said:
She was in ICU. Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after surgery - CNN.com
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Wow, according to that, she went from recovery, where she was reportedly alert and talking, to the ICU. This story seems stranger with every article I read. In an ICU, it is not typical to see this type of decline, unless the situation is really unexpected and the circumstances out of the ordinary. I was thinking maybe she had already gone to the regular unit, and wasn't watched closely enough in that environment. In that scenario, at least it would make a little more sense to me.
 
Sadly, I do think the circumstances were extraordinary.

CNN posted this article on when routine procedures go wrong on 12-19, and I'm sharing the link more for the benefit of "civilians" than for you, Lizzie. When routine surgeries go wrong - CNN.com

I do remember reading eons ago that as a child, Annette Funicello nearly bled to death after a tonsillectomy because of a single grain of rice in the tomato-and-rice soup she was given.
 
Cryogenically frozen on the moon like Walt Disney is the best compromise. Someone needs to pony up the dough for that.
 
Yeah, I was curious to know how this happened. is massive blood loss a common risk with the surgery?

Do you think they nicked her artery or something?



lizzie said:
I have no idea what actually happened, but it sounds like she bled post-op, and it was sufficient to cause near-death. Tonsillectomies are very bloody surgeries. It doesn't happen often that it causes damage to this extent, but it's not unheard of. It's a tragic case, whatever the cause was.
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SheWolf said:
Yeah, I was curious to know how this happened. is massive blood loss a common risk with the surgery?

Do you think they nicked her artery or something?
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Not common, but possible, especially with this type of surgery. The head and neck are rich with vascular supply. Not sure about the artery question, but I tend to doubt it.
 
I thought you weren't supposed to talk after the surgery.


lizzie said:
Wow, according to that, she went from recovery, where she was reportedly alert and talking, to the ICU. This story seems stranger with every article I read. In an ICU, it is not typical to see this type of decline, unless the situation is really unexpected and the circumstances out of the ordinary. I was thinking maybe she had already gone to the regular unit, and wasn't watched closely enough in that environment. In that scenario, at least it would make a little more sense to me.
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SheWolf said:
I thought you weren't supposed to talk after the surgery.
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Well, if someone told her not to talk after the surgery, I guess she forgot, or she could have still been pretty dazed from the anesthesia.
 
Lizzie, isn't it routine for the nurses in recovery to monitor the patient's awakening? To talk to him or her?
 
lizzie said:
Wow, according to that, she went from recovery, where she was reportedly alert and talking, to the ICU. This story seems stranger with every article I read. In an ICU, it is not typical to see this type of decline, unless the situation is really unexpected and the circumstances out of the ordinary. I was thinking maybe she had already gone to the regular unit, and wasn't watched closely enough in that environment. In that scenario, at least it would make a little more sense to me.
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We have a conflict because the article from two weeks ago said just that--she was in the regular unit and began bleeding profusely. ANd, this part makes no sense
But Jahi was then moved to the intensive-care unit, and her relatives were denied access to the eighth-grader for 30 minutes; when they finally were allowed to see her, they knew something was wrong. "Upon entry, they saw that there was way too much blood," Chatman said.

"We kept asking, 'Is this normal?'" Sealey said. "Some nurses said, 'I don't know,' and some said, 'Yes.' There was a lot of uncertainty and a lack of urgency."

Sealey said that when Chatman noticed that her granddaughter's oxygen levels were dangerously low, she called for help
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Why is the grandmother the one monitoring the patient's Oxygen in an ICU?
 
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nota bene said:
Lizzie, isn't it routine for the nurses in recovery to monitor the patient's awakening? To talk to him or her?
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Yeah, I was just responding to the question of being instructed not to talk after tonsillectomy. I've never heard that before, but maybe some docs prefer their patients not to put any stress on the vocal cords or throat. In the last hospital where I worked, I worked on a unit where we got quite a few post-op tonsillectomy and thyroid removal patients. They were normally given clear liquids within a couple of hours after surgery, then soft foods the next day, and were talking as soon as they were awake enough to do so. Over the 7 1/2 years I worked there, I only saw a couple of tonsillectomy patients have to go back to surgery for cauterization of persistent bleeding.
 
Why would some bleed so much more than others? When those few patients needed to go back into surgery, was it a serious life or death situation?


lizzie said:
Yeah, I was just responding to the question of being instructed not to talk after tonsillectomy. I've never heard that before, but maybe some docs prefer their patients not to put any stress on the vocal cords or throat. In the last hospital where I worked, I worked on a unit where we got quite a few post-op tonsillectomy and thyroid removal patients. They were normally given clear liquids within a couple of hours after surgery, then soft foods the next day, and were talking as soon as they were awake enough to do so. Over the 7 1/2 years I worked there, I only saw a couple of tonsillectomy patients have to go back to surgery for cauterization of persistent bleeding.
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calamity said:
We have a conflict because the article from two weeks ago said just that--she was in the regular unit and began bleeding profusely. ANd, this part makes no sense

Why is the grandmother the one monitoring the patient's Oxygen in an ICU?
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I thought that the aunt, the surgical nurse, is the one quoted by CNN.
 
Its pretty bad that the nurses didn't seem aware of the urgency of the situation. They didn't know if her bleeding was normal or not?

I don't know much about medicine or this type of stuff, but that would make me wonder if they didn't properly respond to the situation.


calamity said:
We have a conflict because the article from two weeks ago said just that--she was in the regular unit and began bleeding profusely. ANd, this part makes no sense

Why is the grandmother the one monitoring the patient's Oxygen in an ICU?
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lizzie said:
Yeah, I was just responding to the question of being instructed not to talk after tonsillectomy. I've never heard that before, but maybe some docs prefer their patients not to put any stress on the vocal cords or throat. In the last hospital where I worked, I worked on a unit where we got quite a few post-op tonsillectomy and thyroid removal patients. They were normally given clear liquids within a couple of hours after surgery, then soft foods the next day, and were talking as soon as they were awake enough to do so. Over the 7 1/2 years I worked there, I only saw a couple of tonsillectomy patients have to go back to surgery for cauterization of persistent bleeding.
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I wasn't instructed not to talk. Ha, I didn't need to be. It was awful. Once I was in a regular room, though, I did say yes when asked if I wanted another shot of Demerol. :mrgreen:
 
SheWolf said:
Why would some bleed so much more than others? When those few patients needed to go back into surgery, was it a serious life or death situation?
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If you have to go back to surgery, it's always serious. It's difficult to say why some bleed more than others. It could be as simple as diet or medications they take. It could also be some type of bleeding disorder which has not yet been diagnosed. It's also possible that the surgeon didn't cauterize well enough, or that there was a small artery or arteriole nicked, which wasn't seen during the surgery itself.
 
The main reason she had the surgery was because of her sleep apnea. I'd never heard of taking the tonsils out for this reason or because of urination issues, but that's what I read.

Edit: "Doctors had recommended the tonsillectomy to treat Jahi's sleep apnea, weight gain, inability to concentrate, short attention span and uncontrolled urination, her uncle Omari Sealey told CNN on Monday in a telephone interview.

'They said that she would have more energy, focus more, lose weight, and the urinating would stop,' he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/health/california-girl-brain-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
 
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