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If God Created The Heavens What Did God Do Before That?

brothern said:
For the scientific perspective, as I understand it: there was nothing before the Big Bang. Space, time, matter, energy ... nothing existed.

Understanding that space-time is a continuum and there's a mass/energy equivalence. There's also a common misconception (of which I included myself) that when scientists say the universe is expanding, they don't mean that it's "outwordly" expanding into preexisting space. What they mean is that there is intrinsic expansion where the scale of space itself is changed. Meaning that as time goes on, there is no moving, just that there suddenly is more distance, more existance.

As for those that believe in a God, I wanted to create a post here because I would like to know their perspective too.
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Yep, creating......call it expanding or whatever...
 
grip said:
I don't know what God knows or how much comes out perfect. Maybe what we perceive as flaws are necessary components. If we were all (our concept) of perfect we'd be exactly alike.
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He certainly created enablers
 
beefheart said:
He certainly created enablers
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I'm not sure that's a direct action. The wheels are set in motion based on fundamental rules and what becomes is what we get.
 
brothern said:
For the scientific perspective, as I understand it: there was nothing before the Big Bang. Space, time, matter, energy ... nothing existed.
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I don't think that is correct. There was no time and space, as we understand it. But depending on which cosmological theory you ascribe to, the big bang was the result of the collision of 2 11-dimensionsional "branes" down to three, in terms of space.

Other theories also imply the collapse of a multi-dimensional object into our 3-dimensional + time universe.

Multiverse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note the image to the right.

Also see:
Multiverse (religion) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
can people who are saying that for God time is not linear or that God's actions are not bound to time explain what they base this on using their primary religious texts?
 
I believe in God. I also believe in science. They do not conflict. There are two major divisions in existence. The first is the pure spiritual realm where God exists. In this there is no physical matter thus no time, no place, no before, no after. The second is the created universe. It is material and thus exists in a continuity of time. In our universe the words "before", "after" and "place" have meaning. In spirit those words have no meaning.

As you say "science struggles with what was before the big bang". There was no "before" the big bang for reasons that I have just given. The idea of "before" requires matter and there was no matter until it was created. Time began when God created the physical universe (the big bang of science). Right now there are two universes that we know of. The physical and the spiritual. One exists in time and the other does not. Science will eventually resolve this issue when it discovers "spirit" and is able to quantify it and prove it's existence. This will happen some day. When it happens God will be known to science and religion(s) (all religions, not just Christianity) will learn that all of their various scriptures are only introductions to the great plans of God.

And how, exactly, does God create? Easy. The great mind of God is directed upon spiritual substance which then "slows" and congeals into matter. Science has found evidence of this and calls it the big bang. No big mystery there. If there is an unknown it will have to do with God's purpose.

The business of science is to study the physical universe. The business of religion is to reveal to us the spiritual existence, where souls came from and where they're going. I see no conflict between the two. None.

Yes God is active in existence. Do not use "God" in a sentence which also includes the terms "something" and "before" though because those two words are wholly incompatible with the spiritual existence. Spirit simply "is". God "is". "Before Abraham was, I am" is a famous quote which is appropriate here. See how it seems to mix past and present? Abraham existed in time while God does not. That's why it's worded the way it is.

Did God do it more than once? You mean did God make other universes besides ours? There's no way to know that. Seems to me that the one we have is trouble enough (because of our inability to understand).

Einstein sought what he called "the unified field" (of existence). I think this would be the spiritual universe because it seems to exist "in support" of our physical one. Einstein said: "I want to know God's thoughts. The rest are details". Yes Einstein was a believer too, as are most scientists. As am I.
 
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brothern said:
For the scientific perspective, as I understand it: there was nothing before the Big Bang. Space, time, matter, energy ... nothing existed.

Understanding that space-time is a continuum and there's a mass/energy equivalence. There's also a common misconception (of which I included myself) that when scientists say the universe is expanding, they don't mean that it's "outwordly" expanding into preexisting space. What they mean is that there is intrinsic expansion where the scale of space itself is changed. Meaning that as time goes on, there is no moving, just that there suddenly is more distance, more existance.

As for those that believe in a God, I wanted to create a post here because I would like to know their perspective too.
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As I read it the universe is expanding just like dots on a balloon do when it is inflated and eventually it will disappear. Don't ask me to explain the second idea about disappearing.
 
EdwinWillers said:
Or to quote Him directly, "I AM"
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So his son came to earth when, was killed when and how old is the earth according to the word of God which I am told is in the Bible. I love religious based responses, they can say anything and back it with hallucigenic dribble.
 
Uggabugga said:
I believe in God. I also believe in science. They do not conflict. There are two major divisions in existence. The first is the pure spiritual realm where God exists. In this there is no physical matter thus no time, no place, no before, no after. The second is the created universe. It is material and thus exists in a continuity of time. In our universe the words "before", "after" and "place" have meaning. In spirit those words have no meaning.

As you say "science struggles with what was before the big bang". There was no "before" the big bang for reasons that I have just given. The idea of "before" requires matter and there was no matter until it was created. Time began when God created the physical universe (the big bang of science). Right now there are two universes that we know of. The physical and the spiritual. One exists in time and the other does not. Science will eventually resolve this issue when it discovers "spirit" and is able to quantify it and prove it's existence. This will happen some day. When it happens God will be known to science and religion(s) (all religions, not just Christianity) will learn that all of their various scriptures are only introductions to the great plans of God.

And how, exactly, does God create? Easy. The great mind of God is directed upon spiritual substance which then "slows" and congeals into matter. Science has found evidence of this and calls it the big bang. No big mystery there. If there is an unknown it will have to do with God's purpose.

The business of science is to study the physical universe. The business of religion is to reveal to us the spiritual existence, where souls came from and where they're going. I see no conflict between the two. None.

Yes God is active in existence. Do not use "God" in a sentence which also includes the terms "something" and "before" though because those two words are wholly incompatible with the spiritual existence. Spirit simply "is". God "is". "Before Abraham was, I am" is a famous quote which is appropriate here. See how it seems to mix past and present? Abraham existed in time while God does not. That's why it's worded the way it is.

Did God do it more than once? You mean did God make other universes besides ours? There's no way to know that. Seems to me that the one we have is trouble enough (because of our inability to understand).

Einstein sought what he called "the unified field" (of existence). I think this would be the spiritual universe because it seems to exist "in support" of our physical one. Einstein said: "I want to know God's thoughts. The rest are details". Yes Einstein was a believer too, as are most scientists. As am I.
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Miracles occur in scientific laboratories not religious temples. Medicine cures the sick, religion cures the naive.
 
rhinefire said:
As science struggles with what was before the big bang I ask those that believe in a God, what was God doing before God created the heavens and earth? Did God do it more than once? God had to be doing "something" before the heavens and earth were created, right?
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before and after are inconsequential if God exists in a realm or dimension in which time is not a factor.

as for the big bang, if you want my theory, it is that the big bang happened at the end of a contraction of the universe. my uninformed guess is that it will happen again. will all of us be formed from it again when it does? anyone's guess, but i hope so. i like being me, and would get on the ride again.

anyway, that's the view of a molecular / microbiologist pretending to be a physicist. i tip my hat to the real physicists; that seems to be the purest of the sciences, from which everything else is derived. i tried my hand at it in college, but found that i liked / feared bacteria more, so i went that route.
 
rhinefire said:
As science struggles with what was before the big bang I ask those that believe in a God, what was God doing before God created the heavens and earth?
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That's none of our concern. That's His business.


Did God do it more than once? God had to be doing "something" before the heavens and earth were created, right?
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Why? Why does He have to be doing something? And if He was doing something, why do you assume that we ought to know?
 
Helix said:
i tip my hat to the real physicists; that seems to be the purest of the sciences, from which everything else is derived.
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Don't say that to a mathematician.

purity.png
 
rhinefire said:
So before the universe there was the universe!!!!!
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That's the theory. It expands, then compresses to a big bang and starts expanding again. We measure the age of the universe under the presumption of current expansion. At some point, it is expected to stop expanding and begin to collapse back upon itself.

You've heard of this, right?
 
tosca1 said:
That's none of our concern. That's His business.




Why? Why does He have to be doing something? And if He was doing something, why do you assume that we ought to know?
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He should be doing something because right now planet Earth which some people claim that he created has some serious problems and He isn't doing a damn thing to improve the situation.

Since the situation here on planet Earth shows no signs of improvement that tells me that God isn't doing a thing to help us.
 
shrubnose said:
He should be doing something because right now planet Earth which some people claim that he created has some serious problems and He isn't doing a damn thing to improve the situation.

Since the situation here on planet Earth shows no signs of improvement that tells me that God isn't doing a thing to help us.
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He shoulda....He oughta.....He gotta...

I guess we can grumble all we want. Nothing stops us.

If He is God, and He created everything....He can do anything! He can just as easily pick up His own work, crumple it and throw it in the waste basket.
He can even start all over again. That's the prerogative of a Creator.
 
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It's hard to imagine what time is, because of the limited capacity of our brains. It's difficult to conceive of time having an origin, where there is no "before".

Einstein said time is a dimension. We are better at understanding 3-dimensional space, since we as creatures are able to move freely within space. So as a thought experiment, replace the axis of time with one of space. Time can be represented as the length of a wooden ruler. This is the history of the universe, from one end of the ruler to the other. The ruler can be infinitely long perhaps. But if we shorten the ruler, it's length approaches zero. It's irrational to ask, "what is the length of the ruler below zero?". The length cannot be a negative number.
 
Better to think in inclusive, rather than divisive, terms.
 
spud_meister said:
Don't say that to a mathematician.

purity.png
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I suppose it depends on whether you consider mathematics a science or the language that all of the sciences depend on.

We should totally have a flame war about it. Lol
 
rhinefire said:
So his son came to earth when, was killed when and how old is the earth according to the word of God which I am told is in the Bible. I love religious based responses, they can say anything and back it with hallucigenic dribble.
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There's no dichotomy. If you're looking for exact numbers and how stuff works, crack open a physics book. If you're looking for a purpose and a meaning to your life, check out the New Testament.
 
Manny said:
There's no dichotomy. If you're looking for exact numbers and how stuff works, crack open a physics book.
If you're looking for a purpose and a meaning to your life, check out the New Testament.
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And if you want to read about stoning people to death because they picked up firewood on the Sabbath day, check out the Old Testament.
 
shrubnose said:

And if you want to read about stoning people to death because they picked up firewood on the Sabbath day, check out the Old Testament.
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The Old Testament dealt more with God's relationship with Israel - His chosen people. They were supposed to be a holy nation, or a nation of priests.
Thus there were laws that were strictly for Israel.

The poster Manny was talking about the New Testament.
 
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shrubnose said:

And if you want to read about stoning people to death because they picked up firewood on the Sabbath day, check out the Old Testament.
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Yeah,and if you want to know how to make a chemical weapon to kill thousands of people, mass murder, you take chemistry,
 
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