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Would You Turn Your Back On Your Religkion To Save The Lives Of Your Family?

Alyssa said:
ok. To each his or her own, i guess.
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The true test of what really matters to someone, is what they are willing to die for. I knew, when I chose to answer, that most people here would not understand.
 
Goshin said:
The true test of what really matters to someone, is what they are willing to die for. I knew, when I chose to answer, that most people here would not understand.
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No, truthfully, I don't. I can't imagine sacrificing my kids for Faith. But i still respect what you have to say, Goshin.
 
Alyssa said:
No, truthfully, I don't. I can't imagine sacrificing my kids for Faith. But i still respect what you have to say, Goshin.
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I probably wouldn't outlive them long. Killing my family and leaving me alive would be a declaration of war, not to mention stupid.
 
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Alyssa said:
"Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
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Yup, and I'd be doing the Lord's work, ah guarantee...


Scripture has to be taken in context. The full discussion of why would be a long one: suffice it to say I am one that does not believe Christians are required to be pacifists.
 
Goshin said:
Yup, and I'd be doing the Lord's work, ah guarantee...


Scripture has to be taken in context. The full discussion of why would be a long one: suffice it to say I am one that does not believe Christians are required to be pacifists.
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so, let me get this straight.. you'd let this hypothetical person kill your son (when all you had to do is say "no i don't believe in God") and then after he left, you'd track him down and murder him in revenge. And God would be cool with that. ok. :cool:
 
Alyssa said:
so, let me get this straight.. you'd let this hypothetical person kill your son (when all you had to do is say "no i don't believe in God") and then after he left, you'd track him down and murder him in revenge. And God would be cool with that. ok. :cool:
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Yup.


You catch on quick. A threat like that needs to be removed from the world, doncha think?


Of course, if we're just talking one guy, I probably would have killed him long before he ever had a chance to put me in that position to start with.



... and maybe, just maybe, you should save your moral indignation for whatever sick twisted evil SOB would do such a thing in the first place...
 
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Goshin said:
Scripture has to be taken in context.
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The context is clear. St. Paul was forbidding Christians from engaging in revenge killings, which were legal in the pagan Roman Empire if carried out immediately.
 
Goshin said:
With that said, the scenario is almost ludicrously improbable, except perhaps in the Middle East. Furthermore, it is more likely we would both have died fighting, without giving the hypothetical murderous oppressor an opportunity to engage in this cartoon-villainy-exercise.
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It's not ludicrously impossible that it could happen outside of the Middle East. The OP doesn't even mention fighting in the scenario or talk of murderous oppressors. First thing that came to my mind was a possible scenario of a family of say 5 involved in a Motor Vehicle Accident. Dad has minor injuries and his wife and three children have critical injuries that necessitate them receiving blood transfusions to survive. They're Jehovah’s Witnesses. Dad needs to make a decision. Will he renounce his faith to allow his wife and children to have the required blood transfusions or will he go so far as to allow his loved ones to die?
 
ashurbanipal said:
To someone who genuinely believes in something, it's not possible to simply abandon it or stop believing. Human beings simply cannot do that kind of thing.
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Yes. We do this almost on a daily basis. It is humanly possible to convince yourself to believe something different. Why do you think most Protestants emphasize church attendance so emphatically? Under penalty of death and mandatory weekly church attendance, you will believe what the guy with the gun wants you to believe. It would probably take less than a year. Then your kids would accept it via immersion with evidence beaming from their mother/father's obvious sincerity. This is how religion survives. It only takes one generation of compulsory worship. After that the children/grand children/great grand children/great great grand children automatically believe it.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Do you still beat your wife every day or just on the drunken weekends? Same type of question.
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nope. In your scenario it assumes you beat your wife under either choice. The first one is a realistic question that has been answered by millions of people throughout history. There are two distinct answers that are vastly different. Just because the question makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't real. You will probably never be forced to answer this question but I'm sure somebody in the world is answering this question today under horrific circumstances.

Just admit the question makes you uncomfortable. Don't lie like a mad crazy man. The question you pose is not at all simliar to this question. DON'T LIE. Your lying makes me uncomfortable in the same way this question makes you uncomfortable.

Your inability to consider the question leads me to believe that you would renounce your faith to save your family. Otherwise you would have answered quickly without stalling by feeding us lies.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
nope. In your scenario it assumes you beat your wife under either choice. The first one is a realistic question that has been answered by millions of people throughout history. There are two distinct answers that are vastly different. Just because the question makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't real. You will probably never be forced to answer this question but I'm sure somebody in the world is answering this question today under horrific circumstances.

Just admit the question makes you uncomfortable. Don't lie like a mad crazy man. The question you pose is not at all simliar to this question. DON'T LIE. Your lying makes me uncomfortable in the same way this question makes you uncomfortable.

Your inability to consider the question leads me to believe that you would renounce your faith to save your family. Otherwise you would have answered quickly without stalling by feeding us lies.
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Its a stupid question. My family and I would die in a pile of our own brass before renouncing any part of our lives.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Yes. We do this almost on a daily basis. It is humanly possible to convince yourself to believe something different.
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Well, OK. Before we begin this conversation, we need to talk about what we mean by belief. There's a kind of belief that is so pervasive to one's worldview that it goes under conscious notice. Religious belief, when it's real and not some show, is something like that. I agree that people can change their beliefs, though it's not a completely willful process. I don't think that someone who genuinely believes some religion knows the full extent of their belief, and so couldn't just abandon their religion.

People do change their beliefs, but they don't change them at the end of a gun, or something like that. That was the premise of the thread.

vasuderatorrent said:
Why do you think most Protestants emphasize church attendance so emphatically? Under penalty of death and mandatory weekly church attendance, you will believe what the guy with the gun wants you to believe.
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I may change my behavior. But I won't change my beliefs that way.
 
Goshin said:
Yup.


You catch on quick. A threat like that needs to be removed from the world, doncha think?


Of course, if we're just talking one guy, I probably would have killed him long before he ever had a chance to put me in that position to start with.



... and maybe, just maybe, you should save your moral indignation for whatever sick twisted evil SOB would do such a thing in the first place...
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I have no moral indignation.. just amazement that someone's belief system takes priority over their own child.

CRUE CAB said:
Its a stupid question. My family and I would die in a pile of our own brass before renouncing any part of our lives.
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And you can also speak for them?
 
Alyssa said:
I have no moral indignation.. just amazement that someone's belief system takes priority over their own child.



And you can also speak for them?
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Oh, yea. Its been discussed at length. Everyone on in home is over 18 and fully capable of making their own decisions.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Its a stupid question. My family and I would die in a pile of our own brass before renouncing any part of our lives.
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Better to die on your feet.
 
rhinefire said:
Would you forever renounce your faith in all religion if the ultimatum was the killing of every member of your family except you?
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If someone were putting me in that situation...I believe I would probably have died in combat against them already. No one will dictate my faith to me.
 
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