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Lies Jesus Told

PirateMk1 said:
I take it you don't particularly like Christens do you? Any other religions you feel the same way about, say Islam or perhaps Judaism?
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All the Abrahamic faiths are horrible. Islam is the worst. As bad as the Christers are they are not as bad as the Muslims. Of the three I like Jews best.
 
lizzie said:
I'm guessing you must have missed the day in class, where metaphor was explained. ;)
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Stop being stupid. Jesus was speaking directly not metaphorically. Face it. Jesus lied!

met·a·phor
noun \ˈme-tə-ˌfȯr also -fər\

: a word or phrase for one thing that is used to refer to another thing in order to show or suggest that they are similar

:
 
digsbe said:
What is a "Christer" ?

Also, you may want to try to understand the Bible, what Jesus is saying, and not jump to hasty conclusions likely because you have an axe to grind with God and want to believe whatever reinforces your view.

My first hint was the whole citing a blog called "godishate"
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A Christer is someone who says that believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Liars like to take the literal words of Jesus Christ and call them metaphor or parables.

Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming. Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”. This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead. Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.

"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'" (Matthew 26:64)
Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'" (Mark 14:62)

2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35)
 
Logicman said:
Didn't anyone educate you on Biblical principles so that you would know that it helps greatly to be in the will of the Lord so that your prayers are answered? The probable reason your greedy prayers aren't answered is because the Lord likely looks at you as a stiff-necked, Christ-mocking heathen.



Contradictions: Seeds of Dissent - Answers in Genesis
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I'm a Biblical scholar.

OK, pray this unselfish prayer. I Jesus' name I ask you Lord that you restore the limbs of all the amputees. If you have the faith the size of a mustard seed Jesus PROMISES you prayers will be answered. Do you have enough faith in Jesus? Do it. Put up or shut up.
 
Paralogic said:
You start with the assumption that an unsubstantiated claim is true... namely that the character of Christ is true in the Christian religion... and then you try to prove that Christian claims are false.

The mistake is yours. You assume religious claims are true and then you try to use logic and reason to prove them wrong. It ain't gonna happen. You can either refute all religious claims are false by definition, or stop accepting some of their claims and then wonder why the rest of their claims are true or not.
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I know it BS. Jesus may never have existed. The Jesus story is plagiarism. But if for sake of argument we pretend the Bible is true the character Jesus is a liar... A BIG LIAR! This is important to point out because a lot of stupid and delusional who blindly believe the Jesus lie people vote.
 
Mr Fact said:
I'm a Biblical scholar.

OK, pray this unselfish prayer. I Jesus' name I ask you Lord that you restore the limbs of all the amputees. If you have the faith the size of a mustard seed Jesus PROMISES you prayers will be answered. Do you have enough faith in Jesus? Do it. Put up or shut up.
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You're doing a lot of name calling of Jesus for things he supposedly said but they weren't written by him. They were written by followers of the followers, so you don't even know if he said all those things or how accurate they are?
 
Mr Fact said:
I'm a Biblical scholar.

OK, pray this unselfish prayer. I Jesus' name I ask you Lord that you restore the limbs of all the amputees. If you have the faith the size of a mustard seed Jesus PROMISES you prayers will be answered. Do you have enough faith in Jesus? Do it. Put up or shut up.
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Or how about raising the dead like English preacher Smith Wigglesworth did. Do an unbiased and in-depth investigation of that man.

There's the former rain and the latter rain, sport. Stick around if you can.
 
Mr Fact said:
A Christer is someone who says that believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Liars like to take the literal words of Jesus Christ and call them metaphor or parables.

Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming. Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”. This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead. Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.

"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'" (Matthew 26:64)
Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'" (Mark 14:62)
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Tsk tsk....

They will see it. Everyone has eternal life. And when the Second Coming hits everybody will see it from wherever they are. It will burned indelibly in their brains.

Mr Fact said:
2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36)
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Do you even know what the Kingdom is?

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17).

Jesus was once asked when the kingdom of God would come. The kingdom of God, Jesus replied, is not something people will be able to see and point to. Then came these striking words: “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)

It's being filled with the Holy Spirit, which did occur in Jesus' day and is still occurring today.

Mr Fact said:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35)
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This was a future prophesy about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3).

Have you ever read the Bible?
 
Mr Fact said:
I know it BS. Jesus may never have existed. The Jesus story is plagiarism. But if for sake of argument we pretend the Bible is true the character Jesus is a liar... A BIG LIAR! This is important to point out because a lot of stupid and delusional who blindly believe the Jesus lie people vote.
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So far you've struck out trying to prove that. I recommend you do an in-depth study of the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament.
 
13 posts and banned. That may be a record. And he's still lurking, haha.
 
Paschendale said:
Tell that to the people who use it to attack science, discriminate against gays, and oppress women. Do something about the believers in your midst who are moved to evil because of this text than atheists who say it's nonsense.
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I do, even in Africa. But hey, you skippin' around on the internet bitching at people to take action is pretty much just as good - right? Sure, I travel the developing world preaching understanding and moderation, at great expense to personal political capital and my own safety. But your internet complaining is the REAL DEAL - isn't it?
 
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ecofarm said:
13 posts and banned. That may be a record. And he's still lurking, haha.
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ignore him
he doesnt know that teh bible wasnt written by you
 
Logicman said:
Why don't you ask him that when you get to the Judgment?

By the way, It looks like the skeptic's contention that all prayer studies showing that prayer fails, is bogus.

Prayer: An Effective Alternative Medicine Therapy - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com
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The sources referenced in that article do not actually contain discussion of the studies it is referring to. Not only that, but the first study was not blind and attempts to repeat it did not yield the same results, nor did the methods hold up to scrutiny. Its data was cherry picked and is inaccurate. The second one I couldn't find any documentation of at all. Meanwhile, every well documented study has shown that prayer has no measurable effect.

Otherwise, you do seem to think that god that spiteful, but are relying on an appeal to authority (that god's ability to hurt anyone who disagrees with him defines right and wrong) to avoid having to say so.
 
Paschendale said:
The sources referenced in that article do not actually contain discussion of the studies it is referring to. Not only that, but the first study was not blind and attempts to repeat it did not yield the same results, nor did the methods hold up to scrutiny. Its data was cherry picked and is inaccurate. The second one I couldn't find any documentation of at all. Meanwhile, every well documented study has shown that prayer has no measurable effect.

Otherwise, you do seem to think that god that spiteful, but are relying on an appeal to authority (that god's ability to hurt anyone who disagrees with him defines right and wrong) to avoid having to say so.
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You can also look into studies on "Religiosity of lifestyle" to find out that living a Christian lifestyle has advantages over those who don't.

Also, the God I know is going to welcome me into eternity into a place where the Bible says is full of love and peace and has "no more tears and no more sorrows."

Good luck on your voyage.

John 3:36
 
Logicman said:
You can also look into studies on "Religiosity of lifestyle" to find out that living a Christian lifestyle has advantages over those who don't.
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So what? Truth makes you sad? You're still avoiding every point I'm making. Even if such a thing were quantifiable, it would likely have to do with every other religious group in this country being discriminated against pretty much every day. But even so, that a lie is comforting doesn't make it true.

Tell me, would you still be so eager serve this god if he wasn't going to welcome you into eternity? If there was nothing in it for you, would you still be so happy in your "lifestyle"? It always seems to me that people are quick to defend a god that they think has chosen them to benefit, but never one who they don't expect a reward from.
 
Logicman said:
Also, the God I know is going to welcome me into eternity into a place where the Bible says is full of love and peace and has "no more tears and no more sorrows."

John 3:36
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“Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
― Dr. Seuss

I know I'm getting 72 virgins in heaven because Dr. Seuss said so.
 
Paschendale said:
So what? Truth makes you sad? You're still avoiding every point I'm making. Even if such a thing were quantifiable, it would likely have to do with every other religious group in this country being discriminated against pretty much every day. But even so, that a lie is comforting doesn't make it true.

Tell me, would you still be so eager serve this god if he wasn't going to welcome you into eternity? If there was nothing in it for you, would you still be so happy in your "lifestyle"? It always seems to me that people are quick to defend a god that they think has chosen them to benefit, but never one who they don't expect a reward from.
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I'd probably venerate God if there were no afterlife.

You know, if you want to try to shoot down Christianity, you're going to need to bust the resurrection. I don't think you have a chance of doing that with any efficacy.
 
ethanUNC said:
“Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
― Dr. Seuss

I know I'm getting 72 virgins in heaven because Dr. Seuss said so.
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I think you'll probably wind up with 72 demons instead.
 
Paschendale said:
The sources referenced in that article do not actually contain discussion of the studies it is referring to. Not only that, but the first study was not blind and attempts to repeat it did not yield the same results, nor did the methods hold up to scrutiny. Its data was cherry picked and is inaccurate. The second one I couldn't find any documentation of at all. Meanwhile, every well documented study has shown that prayer has no measurable effect.

Otherwise, you do seem to think that god that spiteful, but are relying on an appeal to authority (that god's ability to hurt anyone who disagrees with him defines right and wrong) to avoid having to say so.
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Actually, I have seen studies that show that prayer can help with the healing process. I posted them a LONG time ago, so I'll see if I can find them. I'd imagine that the reason is something to do with brain chemistry... having some sort of positive thoughts or beliefs triggers certain chemicals that assist with healing.
 
Logicman said:
I'd probably venerate God if there were no afterlife.
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It was really a rhetorical question. While the incentive is certainly a part of why people follow a religion, no one would admit to that. It comes across as petty.

You know, if you want to try to shoot down Christianity, you're going to need to bust the resurrection. I don't think you have a chance of doing that with any efficacy.
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No, I really don't need to do that. Mythological events are just stories. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But I'm not even talking about the veracity of religious claims. I'm discussing them on their merits, which is something that they are designed not to do. That's why they ultimately come down to an appeal to authority, where "this is right because god will hurt you if you disagree" is the entire discussion. I'm not afraid of a thug god and I will discuss these ideas on their merits and I will conclude that they don't have any and I back up what I say with reasons, rather than invoking magic.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, I have seen studies that show that prayer can help with the healing process. I posted them a LONG time ago, so I'll see if I can find them. I'd imagine that the reason is something to do with brain chemistry... having some sort of positive thoughts or beliefs triggers certain chemicals that assist with healing.
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Certainly positivity makes a difference, but that comes from within. Feeling hopeful has little to do with the source of that hope. Positive feelings from any other source would work just as well. It could be family, friends, or a delicious apple pie. It could be the world series. It could even be prayer, but only because of how the person feels about prayer. It doesn't come from magic.
 
Paschendale said:
Certainly positivity makes a difference, but that comes from within. Feeling hopeful has little to do with the source of that hope. Positive feelings from any other source would work just as well. It could be family, friends, or a delicious apple pie. It could be the world series. It could even be prayer, but only because of how the person feels about prayer. It doesn't come from magic.
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You're probably correct. If one believes in prayer and believes that it will have a positive effect, it is more likely that it will. I do not believe that the studies examined the effects of prayer on those who DON'T believe that prayer is helpful. THAT would be an interesting study.
 
Logicman said:
if you want to try to shoot down Christianity, you're going to need to bust the resurrection.
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If you're interested in learning (I know you're not), you could read Atheism And The Case Against Christ. Here is the top Amazon
review for the book:

"The first part of this excellent work is devastating critique of historical evidence for belief in the resurrection of Jesus and for miracles in general. This makes up about 1/2 of the book and it is about the best argument I've ever read on the topic."


However, I don't want to give you the credit of thinking that Christianity is special. Christianity is not special--it is no more difficult to shoot down Christianity than it is to shoot down His Holy Noodlyness the FSM, Zeus, Poisodon, Allah, Odin, Hades, Ra, etc. The Bible, objectively viewed, is a story book with no physical evidence to support it. Imagine I were to pick up Harry Potter and call it my Bible; there would be no need for you to disprove it since I have no evidence supporting it. I should actually correct myself: it is easier to shoot down Christianity than the FSM because a literal interpretation of the Bible is impossible due to contradictions, logic, and science.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You're probably correct. If one believes in prayer and believes that it will have a positive effect, it is more likely that it will. I do not believe that the studies examined the effects of prayer on those who DON'T believe that prayer is helpful. THAT would be an interesting study.
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As far as I know, the major studies dealt with patients who were both receptive to prayer and non-receptive, and were double blind so that patients didn't necessarily know they were being prayed for. Not only did patients not do better when receiving prayer, but I don't think the results varied among believers and non-believers.

So, I'm fairly certain that there are already answers to your query.
 
Paschendale said:
As far as I know, the major studies dealt with patients who were both receptive to prayer and non-receptive, and were double blind so that patients didn't necessarily know they were being prayed for. Not only did patients not do better when receiving prayer, but I don't think the results varied among believers and non-believers.

So, I'm fairly certain that there are already answers to your query.
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I was talking about those who didn't believe in prayer, praying and seeing those results. Don't think that's been done.
 
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