Agree? Or not?

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

Agree. Much of it depends on foresight and planning, coupled with determination to carry through, once you decide on a path to travel. I was not raised with money, but I WAS raised with a strong work ethic, and a dogged determination. It has served me well. I will never be wealthy, but my life has been good, and I can do essentially anything I really want to do.

I see success as for those who define success.

If one defines success strictly in terms the accumulation of wealth and power, it is usually a product of the circumstances of birth, innate abilities and degree of sociopathy.

Beaudreaux said:

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

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I agree. Success takes hard work. It takes risk. It takes smarts. Put all three of those together, hard work, risk tolerance and smarts, and you've got the recipe for success. Two of out three won't do.

MaggieD said:

I agree. Success takes hard work. It takes risk. It takes smarts. Put all three of those together, hard work, risk tolerance and smarts, and you've got the recipe for success. Two of out three won't do.

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Good position. I believe that the term success must first be defined by the individual seeking it. Everyone has a talent (smarts) for something. If they can define the level of risk and effort that's required, the they only need the last of what I feel is also required, the willingness.

Beaudreaux said:

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

Click to expand...

Depends on what you consider success and at what do you want to be successful. If I were to generalize, I would say that a person needs to be, in no particular order: methodical, opportunistic and flexible, disciplined, possess the widest possible range of skill sets, patient, hard working, have decent inter-personal skills, not afraid of risk, and have the wisdom to always have a fallback position.

Sacrifice is what most folks shy away from. I have put in tons of long hours for years at at time. Several coworkers have asked me why I did what I did and I tell them it was simple math, work the hours to get it done in a certain amount of time and some just shake their heads. Well it's over and done and I am reaping the rewards. It is not hard when you enjoy what you are doing. I cannot imagine working a lifetime hating your work.

rhinefire said:

Sacrifice is what most folks shy away from. .

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It's just so hard to find virgins these days is all......

Beaudreaux said:

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

Click to expand...

I disagree. While personal characteristic do play an important role, so does circumstance AKA luck. When it comes to the success of every successful person I know, luck also played a role.

Gardener said:

I see success as for those who define success.

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Agree completely. That is the first and unavoidable step each individual must take.

Gardener said:

If one defines success strictly in terms the accumulation of wealth and power, it is usually a product of the circumstances of birth, innate abilities and degree of sociopathy.

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Although what you say is needed will help, I don't agree in total that it's required. I came from a poor family. I've done pretty well in both wealth and in some ways, power. Wealth, like success, must be defined by the individual. Some can define wealth at a level most would see as not wealthy in our society; although the individual may feel wealthy for their defined level of success. Same with power. Power, as defined by the individual, may be reached when they have enough wealth to be independent to the level where fear and the level of dependency reaches a level of acceptance. Power also can be defined as the ability to reach and maintain your level of success, which is where I am.

Sociopathy or psychopathy as in anti-social behavior or oligarchy type mentality are not required either, IMHO. The want to accumulate wealth can be driven by many factors, most of which do not meet that definition. In my case, it was fear of my children living poor as I did.

There are always the outliers that meet your description, but they are the exception, not the rule, although they get the most press which I believe they want as part of their level of success (both good and bad press).

Innate abilities must also be identified by the individual. Everyone has a talent or skill for something.

What must be done, is an honest reflection by the individual, as to what they see as realistic success. There are very few identifiable successes that the average person can achieve. Although there are a limited number of CEO jobs available, entrepreneurs start their own business everyday; be it a lawnmower repair shop their back yard, a cleaning company, a home based eBay business, or a muffin and cake baking company in their own kitchen.

But, we both digress.

Success should not be defined as business success alone, but rather overall success in life.

sangha said:

I disagree. While personal characteristic do play an important role, so does circumstance AKA luck. When it comes to the success of every successful person I know, luck also played a role.

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If we're limiting it to money or business, then what you say can play a part. However there are many examples of those that overcame their circumstances and still achieved that form of success.

And that may be a large problem that you've identified in our culture as to how we define success. If we are told, taught and believe that success is not achievable due to our circumstances, we will not achieve it.

My view of success is more than just money or business, however.

Beaudreaux said:

If we're limiting it to money or business, then what you say can play a part. However there are many examples of those that overcame their circumstances and still achieved success.

And that may be a large problem that you've identified in our culture as to how we define success. If we are told, taught and believe that success is not achievable due to our circumstances, we will not achieve it.

My view of success is more than just money or business, however.

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No, I wasn't referring to just money or business. Even the more personal aspects of our life are strongly influenced by circumstance. Sometimes, just being in the right place at the right time can make a big difference, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There are three elements of success: proximity, timing and luck.

If you want to be a successful metallurgical engineer, hanging out at the beach and surfing all day is not going to do much for your career as an engineer. You must study get an education in engineering and then devote much of your time to related things. As much as possible, in all ways, you must put yourself close to what you want to be. Proximity is the element over which you have the most control. Proximity is the grunt work of success.

Timing is a little trickier. If you have yourself together with proximity you can help control timing. Hitting the real state boom as a broker requires proximity, but getting yourself into the right area with the right people because you saw the opportunity coming requires timing. Getting out before the fit hit the shan also required timing.

Luck is aided by proximity and timing. You can be the luckiest person in the world, but if you want to live on the beach in St. Augustine and own a marina, pure luck is not going to be enough to get you there. Luck comes after proximity and timing are in place. Luck is a lady and she does what she wants, when she wants, with who she wants. Luck is always around all of us, but without the proximity and timing we rarely recognize luck.

Those are the three key elements. They only work when you know what you want. So many people in the US equate wealth and position with happiness. Many wealthy and well placed people are not all that happy with life. Often we chase the wrong dream only to find that we didn't take enough time to discover what truly would make us happy. It is why so many big lotto winners become miserable and divorced. They thought money would make them successful, and as a direct result - happy. But it didn't. It's why celebrities often become drug addicted, alcoholic and shallow. They achieved everything they thought wanted, they became successful at the wrong thing. What they really wanted was to be happy.

Before anything, you must define true happiness for yourself. Careful, success isn't always what you think it is.

sangha said:

No, I wasn't referring to just money or business. Even the more personal aspects of our life are strongly influenced by circumstance. Sometimes, just being in the right place at the right time can make a big difference, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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I agree, and that's where commitment to overcoming those aspects of life is critical. Commitment doesn't guarantee success, but a lack of it does guarantee that success will not be achieved.

Once a person determines what level of success they want to achieve, whether it's to be the best whatever they chose to be (father, mother, husband, wife, laborer, supervisor, teacher, community volunteer, wood carver, etc.) then they can form a path to achieve that success.

Risky Thicket said:

Before anything, you must define true happiness for yourself. Careful, success isn't always what you think it is.

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I do believe you are right that success isn't always what you think it is, but I also believe that many people have no idea what true happiness is either, and that is the reason so many people don't ever feel successful. I don't personally believe that true happiness can be objectively defined, as it happens within one's mind, and is not dependent on material success.

lizzie said:

I do believe you are right that success isn't always what you think it is, but I also believe that many people have no idea what true happiness is either, and that is the reason so many people don't ever feel successful. I don't personally believe that true happiness can be objectively defined, as it happens within one's mind, and is not dependent on material success.

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Very, very true. And that's where we as people are hurting ourselves. How many people define success as having a certain car, or size of a home, or some other material thing. We as a society are being told everyday what the advertisers define as success; just watch the commercials. If your cloths aren't clean and bright, you're a failure. If your teeth aren't white enough, you're ugly. If you aren't skinny and run 5 miles a day without breaking sweat, your fat and lazy.

We are told everyday how we are failures. We are hurting ourselves, when we believe that crap.

Having the newest phone, or the newest car, or a lot of jewelry, or the hip cloths, or a house on the "right" street or on the other side of the "tracks" doesn't equal success. There are a lot of suicides in mansions by millionaires. You can be in the worst neighborhood and still reach your definition of success.

Happiness is part of the definition of success. In fact, for certain individuals, it may be the primary goal that defines their success; but success cannot be achieved without being happy in your position and situation. Which is why motivation to extract yourself from what prevents you being happy, like where you find yourself, is key.

Beaudreaux said:

I agree, and that's where commitment to overcoming those aspects of life is critical. Commitment doesn't guarantee success, but a lack of it does guarantee that success will not be achieved.

Once a person determines what level of success they want to achieve, whether it's to be the best whatever they chose to be (father, mother, husband, wife, laborer, supervisor, teacher, community volunteer, wood carver, etc.) then they can form a path to achieve that success.

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I agree with the first paragraph. I'd even go so far as to say that is the most important thing to realize about success - that is, that there is no guarantee of success. You can do everything right....everything!!...and still not become successful because of factors beyond your control

And while there is some truth to the 2nd paragraph, I think it goes just a wee bit too far in the direction of "people make their success". As I've been pointing out, there is an element of luck to it.

Beaudreaux said:

Very, very true. And that's where we as people are hurting ourselves. How many people define success as having a certain car, or size of a home, or some other material thing. We as a society are being told everyday what the advertisers define as success; just watch the commercials. If your cloths aren't clean and bright, you're a failure. If your teeth aren't white enough, you're ugly. If you aren't skinny and run 5 miles a day without breaking sweat, your fat and lazy.

We are told everyday how we are failures. We are hurting ourselves, when we believe that crap.

Having the newest phone, or the newest car, or a lot of jewelry, or the hip cloths, or a house on the "right" street or on the other side of the "tracks" doesn't equal success. There are a lot of suicides in mansions by millionaires. You can be in the worst neighborhood and still reach your definition of success.

Happiness is part of the definition of success. In fact, for certain individuals, it may be the primary goal that defines their success; but success cannot be achieved without being happy in your position and situation. Which is why motivation to extract yourself from what prevents you being happy, like where you find yourself, is key.

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Though I've been focusing on the luck aspect of success, I can find nothing wrong with the above. To a large degree, success is what we make it.

There are people who define themselves into unhappiness. They have all they need, and more, but see life as a perpetual striving and an unquenchable desire. The only thing they lack is a slight attitude adjustment, and they would be as successful as anyone might imagine. But no one can do that for them. You have to do that for yourself

Beaudreaux said:

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

Click to expand...

if you cannot dream it, then you cannot accomplish it

but where you come from is often a factor in the size of your dream
the single biggest indicator that you will become a business owner is that you had a parent who was a business owner
the kids of doctors and lawyers and engineers grow up planning to become professionals
the kids who came up in the projects grew up hoping to become a pro athlete, famous entertainer or drug dealer
there will be outliers within both groups, but the point to be made is that your circumstances of birth will have a huge effect upon your prospects for success

justabubba said:

if you cannot dream it, then you cannot accomplish it

but where you come from is often a factor in the size of your dream
the single biggest indicator that you will become a business owner is that you had a parent who was a business owner
the kids of doctors and lawyers and engineers grow up planning to become professionals
the kids who came up in the projects grew up hoping to become a pro athlete, famous entertainer or drug dealer
there will be outliers within both groups, but the point to be made is that your circumstances of birth will have a huge effect upon your prospects for success

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All true. And the number one reason that we need to educate our youth that they are not imprisoned by their birth, both the doctor's son and crack head's daughter. If we continue to tell them that they are, then the cycle perpetuates the predetermined outcome. And that's just too damned sad for me to accept.

In the Boy Scout Troop that I was the Scoutmaster, there were no "rich" kids. Almost all were in broken homes where drugs, jail and hunger were a daily ritual. Most of my kids (and that's what I called them to their face) made it out, or at least did better than their circumstances. But I was the first, and in many cases the only, person to tell them that they could do it. And I told them every week, without fail. When the younger ones saw the older ones making it happen, they believed they could do it... and they did.

Most of what keeps us down is our own thoughts, and not the reality. The easier path is the one most chosen. Success of any kind is not easy. If it were, everyone would be successful.

And hence my OP statement: "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

Beaudreaux said:

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

Click to expand...

As with all philosophical quotes, it is not a true rule. Whilst there is wisdom in this proverb, there are many exceptions to this rule. Yes, many of the greatest successes in history are because of hard work, determination, and brilliance, but those features certainly do not always create success.

Tell me this; HOW DOES JERSEY SHORE GET MORE THAN ONE SEASON AND FIREFLY DOESN'T?

The Insane Clown Posse worked their asses off for years and years before a record label picked them up and they STILL didn't get played on the radio. Justin Beiber was successful before puberty sank in properly. How hard could he have worked?

Indeed said:

As with all philosophical quotes, it is not a true rule. Whilst there is wisdom in this proverb, there are many exceptions to this rule. Yes, many of the greatest successes in history are because of hard work, determination, and brilliance, but those features certainly do not always create success.

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I don't feel it's a rule, but an axiom. And there are more levels of success beyond those of profession. My grandmother never worked a day in her life, but she was very successful and very happy in her chosen area of success.

Indeed said:

Tell me this; HOW DOES JERSEY SHORE GET MORE THAN ONE SEASON AND FIREFLY DOESN'T?

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No answer there. Great point though. I guess JS falls into the misery loves company category because minus the cash, they are the most ****ed up family I've heard of (never watched it) and they must have made a lot of people feel better about their own lives which were not so ****ed up, but Firefly getting canceled? That made no sense to me at all... to this day.

Indeed said:

The Insane Clown Posse worked their asses off for years and years before a record label picked them up and they STILL didn't get played on the radio. Justin Beiber was successful before puberty sank in properly. How hard could he have worked?

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Great band. My son turned me on to them when you had to get their music from their web site only.

Bieber??? No clue, beyond hormone raging teenie girls with daddy's credit card (a version of CP marketing).

Beaudreaux said:

I believe that "Success is not for the chosen few, but for the few who chose it."

What do you think?

This is not meant to be an opportunity for a political rant for against either liberal or conservative ideology, but rather this thread is meant to be an indepth discussion and hopefully discovery of what personal factors determine success.

Click to expand...

No, it is not for everyone. I don't think it is for the "chosen" few. That, to me, implies some kind of superiority. I think it is a combination of intelligence, work ethic and luck. You can be very hard working and give all you have to your efforts at success but just not have what it takes. You can work your ass off and work hard just to get of the grill at McD's but go nowhere because you just don't have the brains for it.

I actually HATE that stupid privileged mantra "you can do anything, all you have to do is go out and get it" STFU . No you can't. I remember watching this video of a girl who wanted to be a ballroom dancer or something but she had no legs or something. So they put her in a wheelchair and everyone is rooting for her as she moves her arms and her partner spins her in a chair. STOP IT! You are not a dancer, you will never be a dancer and getting an I want to feel good about myself crowd of minimally invested cheerleaders together to encourage that impossible dream is cruel.

Instead, why don't we stop this stupid myth right now. Accept the fact that people do not fail in life for this singular reason that they did not try hard enough and stop making moral judgements about those who don't "make it". It is just an excuse so that people who have "made it" can feel superior and blame the dirty failers for not making it. If it's all their own fault, we have no responsibility to them.

I am very very lucky in life. I won the ****ing lottery. But I have known many people who worked and scarified and did everything they were capable of and just didn't get there. That's reality.

opendebate said:

No, it is not for everyone. I don't think it is for the "chosen" few. That, to me, implies some kind of superiority. I think it is a combination of intelligence, work ethic and luck. You can be very hard working and give all you have to your efforts at success but just not have what it takes. You can work your ass off and work hard just to get of the grill at McD's but go nowhere because you just don't have the brains for it.

I actually HATE that stupid privileged mantra "you can do anything, all you have to do is go out and get it" STFU . No you can't. I remember watching this video of a girl who wanted to be a ballroom dancer or something but she had no legs or something. So they put her in a wheelchair and everyone is rooting for her as she moves her arms and her partner spins her in a chair. STOP IT! You are not a dancer, you will never be a dancer and getting an I want to feel good about myself crowd of minimally invested cheerleaders together to encourage that impossible dream is cruel.

Instead, why don't we stop this stupid myth right now. Accept the fact that people do not fail in life for this singular reason that they did not try hard enough and stop making moral judgements about those who don't "make it". It is just an excuse so that people who have "made it" can feel superior and blame the dirty failers for not making it. If it's all their own fault, we have no responsibility to them.

I am very very lucky in life. I won the ****ing lottery. But I have known many people who worked and scarified and did everything they were capable of and just didn't get there. That's reality.

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Superiority. Learn to recognize it. Life will be less painful for you. People fail because of their own actions. Or inaction. You seem cool with people failing and just shrugging it off as "just the way it is". That is a quitters mantra.

CRUE CAB said:

Superiority. Learn to recognize it. Life will be less painful for you. People fail because of their own actions. Or inaction. You seem cool with people failing and just shrugging it off as "just the way it is". That is a quitters mantra.

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yes, those walton heirs, born into billions thru the luck of the womb (Warren Buffett's expression)
so superior and successful, only because of their personal actions [/sarcasm for those who actually needed it]

justabubba said:

yes, those walton heirs, born into billions thru the luck of the womb (Warren Buffett's expression)
so superior and successful, only because of their personal actions [/sarcasm for those who actually needed it]

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Success is what you make it, not what you are born into.