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Is there a form of Universal Morality?

davidtaylorjr said:
Do you believe murder is wrong? That is a Biblical moral.
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I happen to believe it's wrong. I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, but the Bible claims it is (at least according to some people). Being in the Bible doesn't make homosexuality objectively wrong, though.
 
afr0byte said:
I happen to believe it's wrong. I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, but the Bible claims it is (at least according to some people). Being in the Bible doesn't make homosexuality objectively wrong, though.
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Homosexuality isn't even natural, so.... Anyways, Biblical morals do apply to everyone. Do you believe stealing is wrong?
 
davidtaylorjr said:
But you do believe in morality, because earlier you said you did not.
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No, I simply stated that what we consider to be morality is never clearly defined. I said that morality in the way most people see it. Oh wait if forgot to put that in, I think faster than I type. Anyway, if I were to believe in morality, Good would simply be preserving humanity and bad would be doing the completely opposit. The way see it, we just need to preserve humanity, as much as our resources. But can we back to the Universal Morality thing? If I wanted to start a discussion over good or evil, I would of brought back that thread I made in December.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Homosexuality isn't even natural, so.... Anyways, Biblical morals do apply to everyone. Do you believe stealing is wrong?
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It depends on the situation. If everyone decided stealing was OK it'd be OK, from our new perspective. You need to prove that the original morality still exists as true even if everyone changes their mind on a particular right or wrong question.
 
Of course not
morals are 100% subjective over all. For an INDIVIDUAL they maybe objective but overall they are subjective and that's just a fact.

they come from personal opinions, personal opinions of faiths, personal opinions of beliefs, personal opinion of society, personal opinions of right and wrong etc
 
davidtaylorjr said:
That's fine, but you admitted you believe it is wrong. Therefore you do have a moral code, things are right or wrong.
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Ah, I miss-spoke before. If you actually read the page, you would understand the Moral Nihilists do not believe in Universal morality and that a person determines his/her own moral code. Also, it states that no moral code holds a universal truth.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
That's fine, but you admitted you believe it is wrong. Therefore you do have a moral code, things are right or wrong.
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A moral nihilist can have a moral code they follow. They just don't believe it's objective.
 
You can't define it such that we can really answer it, is probably the most accurate answer I can come up with.
Maximizing individual freedom is about as close as we get.

Paschendale said:
I've maintained for a while that universal morality is based on the alleviation or causing of suffering. Causing suffering is immoral. Alleviating suffering is moral. Seems like a solid foundation to me.
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You've apparently never dated someone into S&M. Slightly more seriously, you must realize Pasch that pain and suffering are routinely used for good. Suffering through a terrible illness only to come out on the other side with a greater appreciation for life that you simply had on way to get perspective on before....that you'd take that away from me would be immoral. Maybe that's what screws liberals up, the desire to remove everything difficult from everyone's life, leaving the infantile population unable to ever really grow in character and make hard choices, etc.

Life IS suffering to a degree (no offense to those with real tragic suffering illness, etc.), and then you die. Removing suffering taken to the extreme Pasch, just so you know, is eliminating all life as we know it. I'm not being silly with that, there are people who actually believe that and on some level think it's best.
 
Oh look, stock answers!

Mach said:
You've apparently never dated someone into S&M.
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That's not suffering. It's not suffering if you enjoy it. To me, eating nothing but bananas would be suffering. For another person, it would be bliss. It's not the action, it's the intent and effect of the action. Come on, this is basic.

Slightly more seriously, you must realize Pasch that pain and suffering are routinely used for good. Suffering through a terrible illness only to come out on the other side with a greater appreciation for life that you simply had on way to get perspective on before....that you'd take that away from me would be immoral.
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And causing that illness in someone is immoral. Bad things still happen. But morality is a) not causing them, and b) trying to fix them. Duh.

Maybe that's what screws liberals up, the desire to remove everything difficult from everyone's life, leaving the infantile population unable to ever really grow in character and make hard choices, etc.
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No, just the stuff we can affect. Your "life in a bubble" image is not what anyone is advocating, and is a strawman. Get with the program.

Life IS suffering to a degree (no offense to those with real tragic suffering illness, etc.), and then you die. Removing suffering taken to the extreme Pasch, just so you know, is eliminating all life as we know it. I'm not being silly with that, there are people who actually believe that and on some level think it's best.
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What a pathetic cop out. That some suffering is inevitable has no bearing on the quality of our moral choice. Not causing unnecessary harm is not some affront to nature. It's not being a dick. Trying to alleviate what suffering can be alleviated is the good and moral choice. Feeding the hungry, healing the sick, comforting the sad, helping an old lady across the street, all of these are acts to alleviate suffering. No one is talking about any extremes, and a religious hatred of the physical world (because those are the people who think that life ought to be a miserable experience) has nothing useful to say about morality. But again, no one is advocating extremes. I'm advocating a simple guide to make moral choices.
 
16 “Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

17 “You shall not murder.

18 “You shall not commit adultery.

19 “You shall not steal.

20 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
 
Medusa said:
16 “Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

17 “You shall not murder.

18 “You shall not commit adultery.

19 “You shall not steal.

20 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
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Those are not all universal, especially the first and last. Murder and theft I would say are. Adultery, definitely not universal. The false testimony..very grey
 
maquiscat said:
Those are not all universal, especially the first and last. Murder and theft I would say are. Adultery, definitely not universal. The false testimony..very grey
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I would argue that murder and theft aren't universal either. If they were we wouldn't steal secrets from other countries or wage war against other countries.
 
maquiscat said:
Those are not all universal, especially the first and last. Murder and theft I would say are. Adultery, definitely not universal. The false testimony..very grey
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l know you can cheat on your wife as a polygamic guy ..

but l didnt know you hated your parents :2razz:
 
afr0byte said:
I would argue that murder and theft aren't universal either. If they were we wouldn't steal secrets from other countries or wage war against other countries.
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By "universal" I am taking it to mean that they are present regardless of geographic location, society, religion, philosophy, etc., not that each and every person has them. Do I need to try to define that out more?

Medusa said:
l know you can cheat on your wife as a polygamic guy ..

but l didnt know you hated your parents :2razz:
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Because I don't believe that the moral isn't universal, doesn't mean that I personally don't possess it.
 
family75401343 said:
Furtherly, I wish to apologize to people who replied to my threads back in December, and I didn't reply back to them. Lightning destroyed my computer, and I couldn't afford to replace it until now. So I would like to apologize to people like Lizzie, Goshin, or Mycroft who always replied to my threads and gave me their opinions.
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What a nice guy! Sorry to hear about your computer. This is a great idea for a thread.

I think that there is a universal morality based on reason. The mistake of nihilists is that selfishness is rational, they think that the self is the only thing that matters. This is actually pretty rational, but with one big problem. Since we are all fundamentally one and the same, we are all one self, it is only rational to treat each other as we would wish ourselves to be treated, the golden rule.
 
Guy Incognito said:
What a nice guy! Sorry to hear about your computer. This is a great idea for a thread.

I think that there is a universal morality based on reason. The mistake of nihilists is that selfishness is rational, they think that the self is the only thing that matters. This is actually pretty rational, but with one big problem. Since we are all fundamentally one and the same, we are all one self, it is only rational to treat each other as we would wish ourselves to be treated, the golden rule.
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Except that's egoists, not nihilists. :shrug:
 
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