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Are We At War With Islam?

the_recruit said:
IT'S A TRAP! Get out of there!

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the wiseone got street groomed and is now turning tricks for falafel and cheap wine
 
Oftencold said:
The answer is dependent upon whether one believes that it requires that acquiescence of all parties for their to be a war, or just the aggressor.

Traditional Islam commands that its adherents make endless war on the rest of Humanity until the entire world is Dar al-Islam, possibly with a permanently subjugated underclass. So effectively, all traditional Muslims must consider themselves to be at war with everyone else. (This will give the PC crowd the Vapors, since they have a fictional version of Traditional Islam in their minds.)
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In Luke 19:28 Jesus said, "...who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither and kill them before me
 
Hard Truth said:
In Luke 19:28 Jesus said, "...who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither and kill them before me
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It was Luke 19:27, and a Nobleman said that in the Parable of the ten minas.
 
Somebody keeps attacking us in the name of Islam. If it isn't the Muslims, who the Hell is it?
 
Ray410 said:
Somebody keeps attacking us in the name of Islam. If it isn't the Muslims, who the Hell is it?
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saddam attacked you ?

or qaddafi ?

or assad ?

or you tried to overthrow these governors (whether they are dictator or not )

ignorance is a bad thing
 
MaximumBob said:
Are we at war with Islam?.

In a word, yes.
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I most strenuously object to your post!

It shows a complete lack of sophistication, and a disregard for those who educated you!

In your final sentence, the word "yes" should appear in quotation marks!

The world may descend into the horror of Islamic domination, but by all that we hold dear, we can punctuate!
 
Ray410 said:
Somebody keeps attacking us in the name of Islam. If it isn't the Muslims, who the Hell is it?
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Well, "think," if we must use that term,like a Democrat. Obviously then, the attackers are Wealthy Right Wing Zionist Gun Nut Tea Party Members engaged in a false flag operation to avoid paying their fair share and to suppress the peace-loving members of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.
 
Oftencold said:
I most strenuously object to your post!

It shows a complete lack of sophistication, and a disregard for those who educated you!

In your final sentence, the word "yes" should appear in quotation marks!

The world may descend into the horror of Islamic domination, but by all that we hold dear, we can punctuate!
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We are not at war with Islam..Islam is at war with us!!
 
wolfie said:
We are not at war with Islam..Islam is at war with us!!
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Saddam was at war with you ?

those dictators were not even islamist

was UK at war with the rest of the world during colonization period?
 
Medusa said:
Saddam was at war with you ?

those dictators were not even islamist

was UK at war with the rest of the world during colonization period?
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As a female, you're forbidden from offering opinions on Islam. Find out from your nearest male relative what your views are.
 
Medusa said:
Saddam was at war with you ?

those dictators were not even islamist

was UK at war with the rest of the world during colonization period?
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We colonized countries for personal gain..the same as the ottoman empire did..

You seem to have a lot of sympathy for Saddam...Ghaddaffi..who were living a life of luxury whilst repressing..torturing and murdering who they wished..
 
Oftencold said:
As a female, you're forbidden from offering opinions on Islam. Find out from your nearest male relative what your views are.
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and people still wonder who harms christianity or USA .
 
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It's that whole good guy, bad guy thing. It never quite manages to get over it's embarrassment. It might even look you in the eye, but on the inside it's dying of shame.
 
NoC_T said:
It's that whole good guy, bad guy thing. It never quite manages to get over it's embarrassment. It might even look you in the eye, but on the inside it's dying of shame.
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Note: This debauched statement probably never uttered by Jews being led into gas chambers, Siberian peasants being starved to death by Stalin, emaciated Poles being fired upon in the Warsaw Ghetto, victims of the Armenian Genocide, American Indians being forced to march along the Trail of Tears, mothers of infants bayoneted during the Rape of Nanking, homosexuals being hanged in the streets of Iran, the Water Arabs of Iraq during the Hussein persecutions, political prisoners in Soviet gulags, Syrians recently executed as object lessons, parents of children crushed in the Oklahoma City bombing, passengers on airliners hijacked on 911, recently persecuted and murdered Coptic Christians in Egypt, or people who saw bystander's limbs turned into meat paste during the recent Boston marathon attack.

Such things are only said by people who feel confident, usually as a profound expression in the rejection of Reality, that they and their loved ones are safe from the malicious acts of profound Evil.
 
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Oftencold said:
Note: This debauched statement probably never uttered by Jews being led into gas chambers, Siberian peasants being starved to death by Stalin, emaciated Poles being fired upon in the Warsaw Ghetto, victims of the Armenian Genocide, American Indians being forced to march along the Trail of Tears, mothers of infants bayoneted during the Rape of Nanking, homosexuals being hanged in the streets of Iran, the Water Arabs of Iraq during the Hussein persecutions, political prisoners in Soviet gulags, Syrians recently executed as object lessons, parents of children crushed in the Oklahoma City bombing, passengers on airliners hijacked on 911, recently persecuted and murdered Coptic Christians in Egypt, or people who saw bystander's limbs turned into meat paste during the recent Boston marathon attack.

Such things are only said by people who feel confident, usually as a profound expression in the rejection of Reality, that they and their loved ones are safe from the malicious acts of profound Evil.
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Either that, or a measured response born of perspective. I'm not given to hysteria or susceptibility to sensationalism.

Your little catalogue of atrocities there only overstates the case quite horrendously. Had your point been that humanity is capable of cruelty, it may have been relevant.

How to get everyone to look the other way while we extrapolate to a point of grossest distortion, eh? Aye, that's a pesky little bugger to wrestle with. Damn people and their common sense!
 
NoC_T said:
Either that, or a measured response born of perspective. I'm not given to hysteria or susceptibility to sensationalism.

Your little catalogue of atrocities there only overstates the case quite horrendously. Had your point been that humanity is capable of cruelty, it may have been relevant.

How to get everyone to look the other way while we extrapolate to a point of grossest distortion, eh? Aye, that's a pesky little bugger to wrestle with. Damn people and their common sense!
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What you're espousing isn't "common sense," it's common denial, and it laid millions of people in the ground in the late century.

Yes, we'd better be able to decide who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are. And the world being what it is, if we want to survive we'll have to do it over and over and in ways that aren't terribly fair. And again, because the world is what it is, not what we might wish it were, the real choice isn't even always about who's "good" and who's "bad." It all too often comes down to "them" or "us."

Had such adult thinking been employed by the British Empire in the early and mid nineteen thirties, Adolph Hitler would have been a nasty little footnote in history, and there'd be a lot more Jews and Romanies in Europe.
 
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Oftencold said:
What you're espousing isn't "common sense," it's common denial, and it laid millions of people in the ground in the late century.

Yes, we'd better be able to decide who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are. And the world being what it is, if we want to survive we'll have to do it over and over and in ways that aren't terribly fair. And again, because the world is what it is, not what we might wish it were, the real choice isn't even always about who'd "good" and who's "bad." It all too often comes down to "them" or "us."

Had such adult thinking been employed by the British Empire in the early and mid nineteen thirties, Adolph Hitler would have been a nasty little footnote in history, and there'd be a lot more Jews and Romanies in Europe.
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I've acknowledged our species' facility for iniquity. I'm all too aware of our ingenuity in that department. Every 'little footnote' should have been averted, had we a crystal ball. We're all wiser in hindsight. I fail to see how you draw parallels between the Third Reich and the muslim world.

Do you believe we're at war with Islam, or merely a fundamentalist fringe of Islamist extremists.
 
NoC_T said:
I've acknowledged our species' facility for iniquity. I'm all too aware of our ingenuity in that department. Every 'little footnote' should have been averted, had we a crystal ball. We're all wiser in hindsight. I fail to see how you draw parallels between the Third Reich and the muslim world.

Do you believe we're at war with Islam, or merely a fundamentalist fringe of Islamist extremists.
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Well, according to their Writ, which is held to be the unalterable, eternal, and immutable word of Allah, traditional, mainstream Islam is at perpetual war, allowing only for periods of truce with everyone not Muslim, or subjugated by Muslims. Who am I to call all of those people liars, and their religion a sham? It's only a question of whether it requires both sides to make a war, or just the aggressor.

(If you subscribe to the silly, fantasy version of Islam that so comforts so many non-Muslim Westerners, I recommend that you make a serious study of the matter for yourself, relying upon Islamic texts written for the consumption of Muslims, not the pablums produced for khaffir. Also, a historical study of Muslim expansion will be enlightening.)
 
Oftencold said:
Well, according to their Writ, which is held to be the unalterable, eternal, and immutable word of Allah, traditional, mainstream Islam is at perpetual war, allowing only for periods of truce with everyone not Muslim, or subjugated by Muslims. Who am I to call all of those people liars, and their religion a sham? It's only a question of whether it requires both sides to make a war, or just the aggressor.
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In their traditional and unaltered forms, don't all orthodox religions contain less than savoury elements? I know Christianity does. Judaism, likewise. But being the rational beings we are, we interpret and follow these religions with a view to balancing those historical signatures we now deem as excessive and/or obsolete, with our contemporary standards of conduct.

(If you subscribe to the silly, fantasy version of Islam that so comforts so many non-Muslim Westerners, I recommend that you make a serious study of the matter for yourself, relying upon Islamic texts written for the consumption of Muslims, not the pablums produced for khaffir. Also, a historical study of Muslim expansion will be enlightening.)
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Religion is malleable and corruptible. The Crusades were justified on the grounds of wilful misinterpretation of the christian Bible. They required no Islam to commit genocide.

To use your previous example, neither did Hitler.
 
NoC_T said:
In their traditional and unaltered forms, don't all orthodox religions contain less than savoury elements? I know Christianity does. Judaism, likewise. But being the rational beings we are, we interpret and follow these religions with a view to balancing those historical signatures we now deem as excessive and/or obsolete, with our contemporary standards of conduct.


Religion is malleable and corruptible. The Crusades were justified on the grounds of wilful misinterpretation of the christian Bible. They required no Islam to commit genocide.

To use your previous example, neither did Hitler.
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Sorry. You have not studied Islam.

How interesting that you say that religions are corruptible. Because, as people who've made a study of Traditional Islam will know, the ascendency of violent jihad is not a radicalization of Islam, it is a revival.

Unlike Judaism and even more so most versions of Christianity, Islam is highly resistant to change and interpretation. Again, the Writs of other Abraham religions are thought to be filtered through fallible and imperfect prophets, witnesses and scribes. The Koran is different. It is held to be a perfect copy of Divine proclamation, so that any suggestion of revision is automatically a severe heresy, and can be punishable by death.

The Hadith are more open to interpretation and dispute, but generally support the basic notion that Islam is a model for conquest. It should also be noted that Islam is not only a religion in a western sense, but also a legal and social model.

Again it does not suggest violent Jihad. It does not recommend it. It does not encourage it. It commands it.

Look, in 1785, Sidi Haji Abdrahaman, the Tripoli Ambassador in London explained to John Adams and Thomas Jefferson that Islam commanded ceaseless war against the Infidel, all infidels. He was justifying the depredations of the Islamic Barbary Pirates. Islam has not changed. To suggest to a Traditional Islamist that Islam could change is a blasphemy.

Yes, Islam, as it is practiced by most Muslims world wide is at war with you. It can be no other way and remain what it is. We can fantasize all we like, we can deny, we can spout hollow platitudes about how "all religions" this, of "in the past" that, and it will not change one whit the fact that hundreds of millions of Muslims hope for your death, conversion or enslavement and are willing to suffer and often die to achieve that end. This is the World as we find it.
 
Oftencold said:
Sorry. You have not studied Islam.

How interesting that you say that religions are corruptible. Because, as people who've made a study of Traditional Islam will know, the ascendency of violent jihad is not a radicalization of Islam, it is a revival.

Unlike Judaism and even more so most versions of Christianity, Islam is highly resistant to change and interpretation. Again, the Writs of other Abraham religions are thought to be filtered through fallible and imperfect prophets, witnesses and scribes. The Koran is different. It is held to be a perfect copy of Divine proclamation, so that any suggestion of revision is automatically a severe heresy, and can be punishable by death.

The Hadith are more open to interpretation and dispute, but generally support the basic notion that Islam is a model for conquest. It should also be noted that Islam is not only a religion in a western sense, but also a legal and social model.

Again it does not suggest violent Jihad. It does not recommend it. It does not encourage it. It commands it.

Look, in 1785, Sidi Haji Abdrahaman, the Tripoli Ambassador in London explained to John Adams and Thomas Jefferson that Islam commanded ceaseless war against the Infidel, all infidels. He was justifying the depredations of the Islamic Barbary Pirates. Islam has not changed. To suggest to a Traditional Islamist that Islam could change is a blasphemy.

Yes, Islam, as it is practiced by most Muslims world wide is at war with you. It can be no other way and remain what it is. We can fantasize all we like, we can deny, we can spout hollow platitudes about how "all religions" this, of "in the past" that, and it will not change one whit the fact that hundreds of millions of Muslims hope for your death, conversion or enslavement and are willing to suffer and often die to achieve that end. This is the World as we find it.
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How peculiar then, that that those who commit atrocities in the name of Islam are an infinitessimal fraction, far far less than 1% of total adherents. Does that not strike you as underachievement? Wow. They're a lazy lot, those muslims.

Again, I could post any number of examples of those claiming Christianity and Judaism, who either imply or blatantly call for violence and retribution for imagined slights. I've suffered through many such interminable diatribes at the hands of anti-Semites, for example. Example after example of witlings who claim Judaism, yelling and screaming for 'revenge'. They're a fringe, dude.

Your insistence that Islam is somehow unique in that capacity, is so much empty rhetoric.

I've yet to suffer an assassination attempt at the hands of the muslims who own the local takeaway.
 
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