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Is Socialism the basis for Vampire/Werewolf/Zombie legends?

D

DVSentinel

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What parallels exist between these legends and the philosophies of Socialism?

Normal, logical humans are infected and made into an animalistic subspecies that still has human or semi-human form.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

Though still being human in shape, they can prey upon the healthy productive members of a society, thus harming the society.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

These legends are mythical and don't exist, nor can they exist in reality.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

So, it would appear the the philosophy of socialism, even before Marx wrote it down and named it, was used as the basis for the symbolisms behind such human to sub-human conversions that not only become sub-human but seek to drain the life from normal humans, i.e, brains/blood etc (again symbolism for what socialism seeking to drain the life from a society).

What other parallels exist? What other evidence is out there that shows that these mythical creatures are actually symbols of the philosophy of socialism?

Things such as how since Hollywood has become more liberal, vampires/werewolves have been made to appear romantic and good in movies instead of evil.
 
DVSentinel said:
What parallels exist between these legends and the philosophies of Socialism?

Normal, logical humans are infected and made into an animalistic subspecies that still has human or semi-human form.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

Though still being human in shape, they can prey upon the healthy productive members of a society, thus harming the society.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

These legends are mythical and don't exist, nor can they exist in reality.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

So, it would appear the the philosophy of socialism, even before Marx wrote it down and named it, was used as the basis for the symbolisms behind such human to sub-human conversions that not only become sub-human but seek to drain the life from normal humans, i.e, brains/blood etc (again symbolism for what socialism seeking to drain the life from a society).

What other parallels exist? What other evidence is out there that shows that these mythical creatures are actually symbols of the philosophy of socialism?

Things such as how since Hollywood has become more liberal, vampires/werewolves have been made to appear romantic and good in movies instead of evil.
Click to expand...

Oh, your hackery is insatiable. I would like to give you kudos though, as this gave me quite a giggle.
 
So, are you saying that capitalism is the silver bullet, wooden stake, etc?
 
One must wonder if OP has any idea where Vampire/Werewolf/Zombie legends started.

Just goes to show you. The more partisan you are, the less you know about pretty much everything.
 
obvious Child said:
One must wonder if OP has any idea where Vampire/Werewolf/Zombie legends started.

Just goes to show you. The more partisan you are, the less you know about pretty much everything.
Click to expand...

Which party is advocating socialism?
 
Juiposa said:
Oh, your hackery is insatiable. I would like to give you kudos though, as this gave me quite a giggle.
Click to expand...

Good, then join in the fun. Just tried a different approach because I am so tired of the dry, humorless approach to discussing things. So come on, come up with symbolisms such as I used to express you philosophies or those of others in a fun, frivolous way but with a, to you, truthful and relevant undertone.
 
DVSentinel said:
What parallels exist between these legends and the philosophies of Socialism?

Normal, logical humans are infected and made into an animalistic subspecies that still has human or semi-human form.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

Though still being human in shape, they can prey upon the healthy productive members of a society, thus harming the society.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

These legends are mythical and don't exist, nor can they exist in reality.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

So, it would appear the the philosophy of socialism, even before Marx wrote it down and named it, was used as the basis for the symbolisms behind such human to sub-human conversions that not only become sub-human but seek to drain the life from normal humans, i.e, brains/blood etc (again symbolism for what socialism seeking to drain the life from a society).

What other parallels exist? What other evidence is out there that shows that these mythical creatures are actually symbols of the philosophy of socialism?

Things such as how since Hollywood has become more liberal, vampires/werewolves have been made to appear romantic and good in movies instead of evil.
Click to expand...

I think this guy forgot how to mythology...
 
obvious Child said:
Everyone but the Libertarian party. Modern states do not exist without some form of Socialism.

That said, the OP is pretty much bat**** crazy considering where these legends came from.
Click to expand...

I think the OP was pretty much tongue in cheek, don't you?

Does DVSentinal really believe that socialism has its roots in the vampire legends, or is he making a point and ridiculing socialists?
 
I see someone has been catching up on his reading

idiot-monarch_attack-of-the-commie-zombies.png
 
Dittohead not! said:
I guess he'll have to speak to that himself. What about it, DV? Are we really to take the OP literally?
Click to expand...

Actually, he had it backwards, but hey, what the heck.

What the OP is attempting to do is start a discourse of serious subjects, i.e. political philosophy, in a non serious, preferably entertaining way.
 
obvious Child said:
One must wonder if OP has any idea where Vampire/Werewolf/Zombie legends started.

Just goes to show you. The more partisan you are, the less you know about pretty much everything.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you have any idea where the started. BTW, I was being tongue in cheek, but serious at the same time. I am well aware of that the source of those legends is not socialism, however, it is amazing how such legends can in fact be used as symbolism for socialism.
 
Vampires and werewolves are all powerful creatures that survive by draining the working class. Clearly they're capitalists.
 
DVSentinel said:
Actually, he had it backwards, but hey, what the heck.

What the OP is attempting to do is start a discourse of serious subjects, i.e. political philosophy, in a non serious, preferably entertaining way.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought.
 
spud_meister said:
Vampires and werewolves are all powerful creatures that survive by draining the working class. Clearly they're capitalists.
Click to expand...

You know, if you had said corporatist instead of capitalist, I could almost actually agree with you.

Ok, we will make the Vampires corporatist and the Werewolves are socialist.
 
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This is the dumbest **** that has ever been ****ted. For this forum, that is saying a lot.
 
DVSentinel said:
I wonder if you have any idea where the started.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do.

Vampire legends started around the time Vlad The Impaler was off impaling people.

Werewolves started largely in Pagan Europe.

Zombies, now that that is a bit tougher to pin down, but most of the original zombie stories come out of the slave voodoo culture in Jamaica.

All of which predate Socialism.
 
obvious Child said:
Yes, I do.

Vampire legends started around the time Vlad The Impaler was off impaling people.

Werewolves started largely in Pagan Europe.

Zombies, now that that is a bit tougher to pin down, but most of the original zombie stories come out of the slave voodoo culture in Jamaica.

All of which predate Socialism.
Click to expand...

DVSentinel said:
What parallels exist between these legends and the philosophies of Socialism?

Normal, logical humans are infected and made into an animalistic subspecies that still has human or semi-human form.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

Though still being human in shape, they can prey upon the healthy productive members of a society, thus harming the society.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

These legends are mythical and don't exist, nor can they exist in reality.

Consistent with socialism. yep.

So, it would appear the the philosophy of socialism, even before Marx wrote it down and named it, was used as the basis for the symbolisms behind such human to sub-human conversions that not only become sub-human but seek to drain the life from normal humans, i.e, brains/blood etc (again symbolism for what socialism seeking to drain the life from a society).

What other parallels exist? What other evidence is out there that shows that these mythical creatures are actually symbols of the philosophy of socialism?

Things such as how since Hollywood has become more liberal, vampires/werewolves have been made to appear romantic and good in movies instead of evil.
Click to expand...

Vampires, or creatures loosely resembling them have been a part of European tradition and folklore for milleniums. The Greeks, the Romans, the pagans of all traditions had something of the likes put in place, more or less. They can be considered the basis of inspiration. Why did they exist? Because people had imagination back then... and things tickled it. Same for werewolves.

However, the notion of Vampire as we know it today, and its basis for inspiration which became the popular cult classic can be traced to the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Vampires in particular are a heritage of Transylvania and Romania in general. Why Transylvania? In the XIIth century, hungarian warlords had conquered much of Transylvania. The vast majority of the population was Romanian while the ruling elite was for the most part Magyar. Now there are exceptions of course. The North of Transylvania, the ruling elite were Romanian for the most part. In the south Carpathians, Romanian again. In the east of Transylvania, the ruling elite as well as a significant amount of population was Germanic (Swabians) brought in to secure the region against Romanian rebels.
The roots of the vampire lore can be found here. The magyar nobility was brutal and ruthless. Not all of course, but the significant proportion... or at least the loudest ones. They were seen as vampires, people who sucked the life out of the Romanian peasantry. Blood is life... you draw the comparisons.

It is true that Bram Stokers' Dracula had at its heart the popular Romanian ruler, Vlad the Impaler who lived in the XVth century as voievod of Wallachia. Note, he was a good ruler and a just one. But the punishments he gave to people, especially traitors, deserters, murders, etc were quite severe. The most known of course was impaling people with a wooden pike, oiled up so that it can easily slide in through the anus of the recepient and out of his mouth. There is even evidence to suggest that he developed this technique to such a degree that people would still be alive after being impaled, leading to a less than instantaneous death. Of course, due to several diplomatic conflicts between the hungarians and the wallachians, hungarian merchants started making propaganda against Vlad the Impaler. One of the most popular of these was that he used to dine surrounded by impaled people, like dining in a forest, but the forest was pikes with people in them. Whether this is true or not, it is not known for certain. It may very well be true. What is true however is that during his rule, you could leave a bag of coins in the middle of the street and nobody would steal it. There is even a saying, you would sleep with a purse under your pillow and be afraid that you would steal it yourself. :)

So Vampires find their origins in the ancient rumors, evolved and carried over in Transylvania where the Romanian population was subjugated to the brutal magyar nobility and turned into worldwide sensation by an Irishman who got inspiration from Romanian history.

Werewolves are a popular figure in many parts of Europe... especially those dominated by imposing mountain landscapes like the Alps. From west to east, the Swiss, the Germans-Austrians, the Slovenians, the Serbians, the Romanians, the Macedonians and others in the Balkans have hundreds of years of legacy about the werewolves. While this story may have had some truth to it, certainly more than vampires... due to the existence of very large wolves and packs of wolves especially who would attack human villages in the long and hard winters. I remember that the oldest written legend about werewolves was from modern day Serbia in the VIII-IXth century. There may be older legends, of course, but that is the one I remember about.

so no. it has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism didn't exist back then. What did exist was Monarchy and Feudalism.
 
obvious Child said:
Yes, I do.

Vampire legends started around the time Vlad The Impaler was off impaling people.

Werewolves started largely in Pagan Europe.

Zombies, now that that is a bit tougher to pin down, but most of the original zombie stories come out of the slave voodoo culture in Jamaica.

All of which predate Socialism.
Click to expand...

LOL. So tell me, if it started with Vlad the Impaler, also known as Drakul, then why have I read a Japanese folk story about vampires that dates to and was written somewhere around 1000 to 1500 years before Vlad ever lived?

And in the original post I clearly noted the concept of socialism, not specifically Marx's codification of it.
 
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Rainman05 said:
Vampires, or creatures loosely resembling them have been a part of European tradition and folklore for milleniums. The Greeks, the Romans, the pagans of all traditions had something of the likes put in place, more or less. They can be considered the basis of inspiration. Why did they exist? Because people had imagination back then... and things tickled it. Same for werewolves.

However, the notion of Vampire as we know it today, and its basis for inspiration which became the popular cult classic can be traced to the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Vampires in particular are a heritage of Transylvania and Romania in general. Why Transylvania? In the XIIth century, hungarian warlords had conquered much of Transylvania. The vast majority of the population was Romanian while the ruling elite was for the most part Magyar. Now there are exceptions of course. The North of Transylvania, the ruling elite were Romanian for the most part. In the south Carpathians, Romanian again. In the east of Transylvania, the ruling elite as well as a significant amount of population was Germanic (Swabians) brought in to secure the region against Romanian rebels.
The roots of the vampire lore can be found here. The magyar nobility was brutal and ruthless. Not all of course, but the significant proportion... or at least the loudest ones. They were seen as vampires, people who sucked the life out of the Romanian peasantry. Blood is life... you draw the comparisons.

It is true that Bram Stokers' Dracula had at its heart the popular Romanian ruler, Vlad the Impaler who lived in the XVth century as voievod of Wallachia. Note, he was a good ruler and a just one. But the punishments he gave to people, especially traitors, deserters, murders, etc were quite severe. The most known of course was impaling people with a wooden pike, oiled up so that it can easily slide in through the anus of the recepient and out of his mouth. There is even evidence to suggest that he developed this technique to such a degree that people would still be alive after being impaled, leading to a less than instantaneous death. Of course, due to several diplomatic conflicts between the hungarians and the wallachians, hungarian merchants started making propaganda against Vlad the Impaler. One of the most popular of these was that he used to dine surrounded by impaled people, like dining in a forest, but the forest was pikes with people in them. Whether this is true or not, it is not known for certain. It may very well be true. What is true however is that during his rule, you could leave a bag of coins in the middle of the street and nobody would steal it. There is even a saying, you would sleep with a purse under your pillow and be afraid that you would steal it yourself. :)

So Vampires find their origins in the ancient rumors, evolved and carried over in Transylvania where the Romanian population was subjugated to the brutal magyar nobility and turned into worldwide sensation by an Irishman who got inspiration from Romanian history.

Werewolves are a popular figure in many parts of Europe... especially those dominated by imposing mountain landscapes like the Alps. From west to east, the Swiss, the Germans-Austrians, the Slovenians, the Serbians, the Romanians, the Macedonians and others in the Balkans have hundreds of years of legacy about the werewolves. While this story may have had some truth to it, certainly more than vampires... due to the existence of very large wolves and packs of wolves especially who would attack human villages in the long and hard winters. I remember that the oldest written legend about werewolves was from modern day Serbia in the VIII-IXth century. There may be older legends, of course, but that is the one I remember about.

so no. it has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism didn't exist back then. What did exist was Monarchy and Feudalism.
Click to expand...

As I pointed out to someone else, I have found ancient Japanese folk tales describing vampires, which have many characteristics of them as described in the novel Dracula and other stories. So if such tales existed in Europe and Japan, a millennium or more before the two cultures made contact following the diaspora from the cradle of mankind, then the stories, tales, etc have to have an origin going back to prior to the diaspora of man, according to the Bible, following the fall of the Tower of Babel.
 
DVSentinel said:
As I pointed out to someone else, I have found ancient Japanese folk tales describing vampires, which have many characteristics of them as described in the novel Dracula and other stories. So if such tales existed in Europe and Japan, a millennium or more before the two cultures made contact following the diaspora from the cradle of mankind, then the stories, tales, etc have to have an origin going back to prior to the diaspora of man, according to the Bible, following the fall of the Tower of Babel.
Click to expand...

Ok.

Look here. "Vampires, or creatures loosely resembling them have been a part of European tradition and folklore for milleniums. The Greeks, the Romans, the pagans of all traditions had something of the likes put in place, more or less."

See what I wrote?

Now, maybe it is true and other peoples, like the japs, had their own versions of vampires created independently from what we have in Europe. it's not hard to imagine that said thing could be the case. The Japs sure have created a lot of things in their culture, including a lot of squid-based folklore if you get what I mean. People can create, independently, various fictions of the imagination. Bloodsucking human-like beings is not that big a imagination shock. The important thing is how did you get to it? What is the story behind the creation of said myth, said fiction.

I have given you, in the comment above, a great deal of information as to the origin of the vampire and werewolves myths that matter to us. They are for all intent and purposes, the only myths that matter. If Bram Stoker had gone to Japan and it would have been the japanesse vampire folklore that would have impressed him, we would now see a bunch of squinty-eyed bloodsuckers on screen. We didn't.

Why is Bram Stoker important in this equation for popularizing and actually promoting this cultural myth? Because he wrote in English and English is a very popular language. There were a great deal of authors who wrote stories about vampires and werewolves before Bram Stoker, but not in English. And this is the case for all places that had this myth ingrained in their folklore.
 
OK, I realize this is not an entirely serious thread, and by no means I want to diminish the many accomplishments of Bram Stoker, Wallachian voivodes, or enterprising Jamaican priests, but...

Imagine that smack in the middle of the capital of an Eastern Orthodox Christian country that used to bury its dead, without exception, even before having been baptized, a mummy of the Mass-Murderer-in-Chief is being preserved in a bizarre ziggurat-like structure bearing no resemblance to any native architecture of any period...

Imagine that the high priests of the ruling party emerge on the top of the hideous construction on every public holiday, to wave at the throngs of zombies - eh, sorry, the great and noble personnel of the Red Army and KGB displaying their equipment and readiness to sink their teeth ( so to say) into any hapless lithuania or angola?

While the omnipresent propaganda posters scream: "Lenin is still more alive than all the living put together!"...(I am not kidding, I wish I were).

Now, I am about the last person on this forum to give credence to any mystical or religious notion, or any superstition, but in this particular case - a stake through the heart...hmm...What do we have to lose?!

P.S. The Mass Murderer #1 had a roommate, for a few years, but he was evicted: being too obvious is discouraged among vampires:

View attachment 67147335

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