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The Supernatural

Knowledge=power

Knowledge=power

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I hear the argument of certain realms being supernatural and unreachable by science or any kind of observation.

Have you ever experienced anything supernatural? Any stories of hauntings, or possessions, or seances?

I lived near a cemetery as a kid. There was an urban legend that if you put flour on your car, and stop on the railroad tracks just before the entrance to the cemetary, that spirits would push your car off of them to save you, because they had suffered the fate of being hit by a train and were good spirits trying to look out for people. I never tried it. Truth is, as logical and bolted to reality as I am, that stuff still spooks me quite a bit. The funny thing is, if this realm was supernatural and not observable, how could supernatural beings act in the physical world and cause chandeliers to sway, and floors to creak? Are they capable of healing? Protecting?

The supernatural realm is where God is supposed to live too. My extremely religious extended family used to tell us that there is a constant war going on between angels and demons and that it is happening all around us :roll:

How can anything supernatural interact with us? Whether it be God, or a spirit, or a demon, etc?

I do not believe in such things, but I'd like to hear from people who as to what they think.
 
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Yes, but I rarely speak of it. Skeptics merely roll their eyes and laugh into their sleeves, so why bother? Not to mention some of those experiences were very disturbing.
 
Goshin said:
Yes, but I rarely speak of it. Skeptics merely roll their eyes and laugh into their sleeves, so why bother? Not to mention some of those experiences were very disturbing.
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I am a skeptic, but I have experienced some disturbing things, or at least what I thought was disturbing - could have been my imagination.

I'd like to hear it, if you wish to share. I am intrigued by this sort of thing.
 
Knowledge=power said:
I hear the argument of certain realms being supernatural and unreachable by science or any kind of observation.

Have you ever experienced anything supernatural? Any stories of hauntings, or possessions, or seances?

I lived near a cemetary as a kid. There was an urban legend that if you put flour on your car, and stop on the railroad tracks just before the entrance to the cemetary, that spirits would push your car off of them to save you, because they had suffered that fate and were good spirits trying to look out for people. I never tried it. Truth is, as logical and bolted to reality as I am, that stuff still spooks me quite a bit. The funny thing is, if this realm was supernatural and not observable, how could supernatural beings act in the physical world and cause chandeliers to sway, and floors to creak? Are they capable of healing? Protecting?

The supernatural realm is where God is supposed to live too. My extremely religious extended family used to tell us that there is a constant war going on between angels and demons and that it is happening all around us :roll:

How can anything supernatural interact with us? Whether it be God, or a spirit, or a demon, etc?

I do not believe in such things, but I'd like to hear from people who as to what they think.
Click to expand...

I've never seen a ghost but I cant dismiss them out of hand.

I watch some of the shows and it seems plausible that they exist.

I've heard enough about angels saving people that its possible

that there are angel-demon wars going on.

It'll be interesting to see whats up at death-if we learn a lot

of things we dont know now.
 
Tell ya what, I'll wait a bit, think on it, and see how the thread develops. If it is something other than the usual sneering and sniggering, I might share something.
 
The term supernatural feels illusory to me. The word implies that it is something beyond nature, yet, there is nothing beyond the all encompassing natural world. I don't believe in the supernatural, but I do believe that people may have had legitimate experiences with bizarre natural occurrences. There may be things beyond humanity's current grasp of reality, but, nothing is supernatural.
 
a lot of these "spottings" are due to brain chemistry or optical illusions.


I dont buy any of it. But I wont lie, i do like a good ghost story ;)
 
Goshin said:
Tell ya what, I'll wait a bit, think on it, and see how the thread develops. If it is something other than the usual sneering and sniggering, I might share something.
Click to expand...

I understand your hesitation. I hope to hear from you.
 
penn1954 said:
I've never seen a ghost but I cant dismiss them out of hand.

I watch some of the shows and it seems plausible that they exist.

I've heard enough about angels saving people that its possible

that there are angel-demon wars going on.

It'll be interesting to see whats up at death-if we learn a lot

of things we dont know now.
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What is to be said of possessions? This is for all to speculate on, not just penn.
 
shlunka said:
The term supernatural feels illusory to me. The word implies that it is something beyond nature, yet, there is nothing beyond the all encompassing natural world. I don't believe in the supernatural, but I do believe that people may have had legitimate experiences with bizarre natural occurrences. There may be things beyond humanity's current grasp of reality, but, nothing is supernatural.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you here, but still speculate.

What sort of natural occurences do you mean?
 
madman said:
a lot of these "spottings" are due to brain chemistry or optical illusions.


I dont buy any of it. But I wont lie, i do like a good ghost story ;)
Click to expand...

I usually don't buy into it, but like you, a good ghost story can get to me.

I watched paranormal activity (the first one) and was legitimately freaked out. I didnt even bother watching the next 14 paranormal activity installments, because it's just gotten over played.
 
Knowledge=power said:
I tend to agree with you here, but still speculate.

What sort of natural occurences do you mean?
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I've read studies that suggested that the mind is capable of projecting disturbances across space "not telekinetic, just small projections", as well as an unverified study by someone named Macdoogal. Perhaps ghosts aren't supernatural at all, but only a natural occurrence that human beings have yet to understand. I personally don't believe in ghosts/the soul/foresight/etc, but they may well be naturally occurring phenomenon.
 
My uncle told me and my family a story when I was young. I remember how quiet the room was when he was telling it. I could tell just by the look on his face that, though he may be entertaining a delusion, he was not lying. He told us of a beam of light that pierced through the sealing in his bedroom the night before, and how it spoke to him, but not with words. At the time, before I abandoned all of that, I was very taken with the story. Several people I do not know well report stories of supernatural occurences, some positive, some negative - which is why I speculate, despite my normally staunch belief in only physical reality.
 
I don't believe that things fall outside of nature. "Supernatural" is just a word for something we don't yet understand, yet is still part of the universe.

If science is the marker of what is known, then that's not very much. The amount of what is known is always going to be far less than what is unknown. My problem with modern scientists is that they have a hard time accepting that their field has its own natural limits of understanding that it either hasn't crossed, or refuses to cross. There is a wealth of other kinds of human experience happening that science dismisses because it does not operate within the paradigm to examine it.

Science is material reductionist. Anything outside of the physical realm it typically will not look at, and thus a presumably large part of our universe is just ignored.

Goshin said:
Tell ya what, I'll wait a bit, think on it, and see how the thread develops. If it is something other than the usual sneering and sniggering, I might share something.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I wouldn't. I've decided not to.
 
Northern Light said:
I don't believe that things fall outside of nature. "Supernatural" is just a word for something we don't yet understand, yet is still part of the universe.

If science is the marker of what is known, then that's not very much. The amount of what is known is always going to be far less than what is unknown. My problem with modern scientists is that they have a hard time accepting that their field has its own natural limits of understanding that it either hasn't crossed, or refuses to cross. There is a wealth of other kinds of human experience happening that science dismisses because it does not operate within the paradigm to examine it.

Science is material reductionist. Anything outside of the physical realm it typically will not look at, and thus a presumably large part of our universe is just ignored.



Honestly, I wouldn't. I've decided not to.
Click to expand...

It's sad to see this thread has been derailed before even getting off the ground. I wanted to hear these stories you all have. I am genuinely intrigued.

To address your point about science not looking at things outside the physical realm - is it because they do not want to? Or, they simply cannot - due to it not being physically available to observe?
 
Northern Light said:
Anything outside of the physical realm it typically will not look at, and thus a presumably large part of our universe is just ignored.
Click to expand...

Right, because science is based on empirical measurements and not religion.
 
Knowledge=power said:
Have you ever experienced anything supernatural? Any stories of hauntings, or possessions, or seances?

Truth is, as logical and bolted to reality as I am, that stuff still spooks me quite a bit. The funny thing is, if this realm was supernatural and not observable, how could supernatural beings act in the physical world and cause chandeliers to sway, and floors to creak? Are they capable of healing? Protecting?



How can anything supernatural interact with us? Whether it be God, or a spirit, or a demon, etc?

I do not believe in such things, but I'd like to hear from people who as to what they think.
Click to expand...

Hauntings, possessions, seances, no. Supernatural? Yes. Or perhaps it's what I consider supernatural, but it's actually completely natural, but abnormal. I do believe that there is a "world" out there that we don't see or perceive with our five senses.

Healing and protecting? Not really. I am more of the belief that we get what we need, in order to facilitate learning and growing. I also think that the mind has a great deal of influence on the body, so that "healing" begins by getting your mind right, if that makes any sense.
 
shlunka said:
The term supernatural feels illusory to me. The word implies that it is something beyond nature, yet, there is nothing beyond the all encompassing natural world. I don't believe in the supernatural, but I do believe that people may have had legitimate experiences with bizarre natural occurrences. There may be things beyond humanity's current grasp of reality, but, nothing is supernatural.
Click to expand...

we havent been able to find true specific explanations for every metapyhsical event experienced by some

it will no longer be defined as " supernatural " if we reach 100 % of our brain capacity

however it is supernaturally mysterious to us for now and l like mystery :2razz:
 
madman said:
Right, because science is based on empirical measurements and not religion.
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Paranormal research shows that there are aspects of the universe which science is completely neglecting because it does not fit into their worldview.

Here is a good TEDTalk about this issue.

Rupert Sheldrake, "The Science Delusion"
Rupert Sheldrake - The Science Delusion BANNED TED TALK - YouTube

It was actually later censored by TED's science committee for the exact reason I mentioned earlier. A lot of scientists act like science is a benign seeker of truth but there is increasing evidence that the scientific establishment has a vested interest in avoiding many different topics of research so that the model will not have to change.
 
Knowledge=power said:
To address your point about science not looking at things outside the physical realm - is it because they do not want to? Or, they simply cannot - due to it not being physically available to observe?
Click to expand...

It's both. There is a vested interest in preserving the material reductionist model because it originally arose as a counter-culture to religion and spirituality. In other words, there are real political reasons behind science staying the way it is - despite the fact that the quantum realm provides a greater possibility that the metaphysical gap between science and the spiritual may not be so large.

Science has the potential to fully utilize the human imagination, as it has proven via technological means in the past 200 years. If science decides to undertake a genuine search into many paranormal claims, it could invent the means. Why? Because it has done so before. Unfortunately, many mainstream attempts at this are biased from the start. The observer changes what is observed, after all.

You have to understand the history of science to understand why it refuses to look at claims it deems non-material, despite the wealth of circumstantial evidence that has been collected over the years to demonstrate that there are other things happening in reality that don't conform to the current model.
 
Northern Light said:
I don't believe that things fall outside of nature. "Supernatural" is just a word for something we don't yet understand, yet is still part of the universe.

If science is the marker of what is known, then that's not very much. The amount of what is known is always going to be far less than what is unknown. My problem with modern scientists is that they have a hard time accepting that their field has its own natural limits of understanding that it either hasn't crossed, or refuses to cross. There is a wealth of other kinds of human experience happening that science dismisses because it does not operate within the paradigm to examine it.

Science is material reductionist. Anything outside of the physical realm it typically will not look at, and thus a presumably large part of our universe is just ignored.
.
Click to expand...


You said a mouthful, bud. QFT.
 
Knowledge=power said:
It's sad to see this thread has been derailed before even getting off the ground. I wanted to hear these stories you all have. I am genuinely intrigued.

To address your point about science not looking at things outside the physical realm - is it because they do not want to? Or, they simply cannot - due to it not being physically available to observe?
Click to expand...


See, there are certain specific people on DP... I won't name them out of courtesy and a desire to avoid starting a conflict... who would just love for someone to speak of a spiritual or supernatural experience here, so that they can joyfully tear into that person, mock and deride them, and call their experience delusional and otherwise rip into them like a pack of wolves.

That doesn't exactly make for an atmosphere conducive to sharing such things.

But anyway, I'm still thinking on it...
 
lizzie said:
Hauntings, possessions, seances, no. Supernatural? Yes. Or perhaps it's what I consider supernatural, but it's actually completely natural, but abnormal. I do believe that there is a "world" out there that we don't see or perceive with our five senses.
Click to expand...

So there's a world beyond our senses that is natural but unperceivable? What do you think exists in that world, and what do you think goes on? I'm interested.

lizzie said:
Healing and protecting? Not really. I am more of the belief that we get what we need, in order to facilitate learning and growing. I also think that the mind has a great deal of influence on the body, so that "healing" begins by getting your mind right, if that makes any sense.
Click to expand...

We get what we need from where?
 
Goshin said:
See, there are certain specific people on DP... I won't name them out of courtesy and a desire to avoid starting a conflict... who would just love for someone to speak of a spiritual or supernatural experience here, so that they can joyfully tear into that person, mock and deride them, and call their experience delusional and otherwise rip into them like a pack of wolves.

That doesn't exactly make for an atmosphere conducive to sharing such things.

But anyway, I'm still thinking on it...
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Perhaps I should have put this in the religion sub forum so that it could be moderated.
 
Northern Light said:
It's both. There is a vested interest in preserving the material reductionist model because it originally arose as a counter-culture to religion and spirituality. In other words, there are real political reasons behind science staying the way it is - despite the fact that the quantum realm provides a greater possibility that the metaphysical gap between science and the spiritual may not be so large.
Click to expand...

I have read a lot about quantum physics and I find it very interesting but very difficult to grasp. What information do you think the quantum realm could provide about the relation between science and the spiritual?

Northern Light said:
Science has the potential to fully utilize the human imagination, as it has proven via technological means in the past 200 years. If science decides to undertake a genuine search into many paranormal claims, it could invent the means. Why? Because it has done so before. Unfortunately, many mainstream attempts at this are biased from the start. The observer changes what is observed, after all.
Click to expand...

1.) I'm interested; what means have been invented to research paranormal events?

2.) I don't quite follow here. Could you elaborate?

Northern Light said:
You have to understand the history of science to understand why it refuses to look at claims it deems non-material, despite the wealth of circumstantial evidence that has been collected over the years to demonstrate that there are other things happening in reality that don't conform to the current model.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on what evidence has been collected? and by current model, do you mean physics and laws of physics, nature, etc?
 
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