Why aren’t liberals more critical of Islam?

Benjamin Wiker

We are now—like it or not—immersed in a real debate about the nature of Islam. The background of deceased Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev is forcing us into it. There is no doubt Tamerlan, the elder brother of the two perpetrators, was transformed by his relatively recent embrace of radical Islam..

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Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

That is correct, all unity with the Godless Liberals is to be found in hatred of a common enemy.

Among the individual diverse Liberal groups, there is no love lost whatsoever, in fact the Muslims want to kill the homosexuals, just as they have begun to do in England, yet both groups remain united in their hatred of Christianity and their defense of each other because of that common hatred. Of course, in the United States, the homosexuals know that the Conservatives will protect them from the Muslims so they have little to fear as long as they don't stray too far into Muslim territory.

longknife said:

Benjamin Wiker


Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

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answer: Because islam is not trying to change the social and political landscape (via law) of America with their fairytale.

I dont defend Islam, I just point out the lies from the Right. Creeping Sharia is a scary fairy tale, as is most of the rest the RW goes on and on about.

madman said:

answer: Because islam is not trying to change the social and political landscape (via law) of America with their fairytale.

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mak2 said:

I dont defend Islam, I just point out the lies from the Right. Creeping Sharia is a scary fairy tale, as is most of the rest the RW goes on and on about.

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Dont be brainwashed by the right-wing speak of "creeping sharia". This is what they want. They (U.S. christians) want an excuse to have a religious war with them. You can already see it in vitriol that they speak.

longknife said:

Benjamin Wiker


Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

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Liberals allow criticism of what they see fit and use political correctness to lampoon the right. This was the scene when no one criticised Muslims in Britain.

longknife said:

Benjamin Wiker


Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

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The 1970's called it wants it's liberals back.

longknife said:

Benjamin Wiker


Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

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Why do you take strawman portrayals of liberals, put them out there as if they're fact, and then expect Liberals to answer for it?

If someone tried this with Conservatives there would probably be infractions handed out.

I'm not sure if any demographic in America professes persecution more than Christian Republicans/conservatives.

Well, I'm a liberal. Here's what I think about each of the Abrahamic religions, including Islam, Christianity, and Judaism:

There are good parts, and bad parts. I'd like it if we could recognize both for what they are, keep the good, and jettison the bad. I am quite critical of those strains of Islam which would like to oppress women, teach a fundamentalist view of the Qur'an, etc. I think those elements of Islam that engender positive charity, fellowship, sobriety, and a love for all things are good, and should be kept.

madman said:

answer: Because islam is not trying to change the social and political landscape (via law) of America with their fairytale.

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That being true, it strongly suggest that the left's often heard claims of being humanitarians, champions for individual rights and freedoms, and people who vehemently oppose all forms of repression and discrimination, are not actual heart felt beliefs for many of them, but rather ideological positions chosen purely for political gain and convenience.

If they truly possessed the core values and beliefs they claim to embrace, without hesitation they would not only acknowledge the truth concerning the undeniable violence and repression associated with the radical side of the Islamic faith and the danger it poses to innocent people, but they would also strongly denounce each one of the actions that take place as a result of their beliefs. What we see instead is their complete abandonment of those core values by the left, in order to avoid any possible results that could have a negative effect on them politically. What their actions are in effect saying is, that they choose to defend those who murder innocent people in the name of their religion, because a) it opposes the position of their political opponents and gives them a platform in which to attack their motives and beliefs, and b) taking the morally correct position and agreeing with the right could have negative political effects, by resulting in more public support for their positions on immigration policy, gun control, military strength and government entitlement programs.

So you're correct, but let me also add that being more critical of Islam would require them to agree with the right... Something that their ideology just won't permit them to do under any circumstances.

longknife said:

Benjamin Wiker


Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

Click to expand...

It's not religion of Islam or Christianity that I object to, in as much as it is their followers.

Ray410 said:

That is correct, all unity with the Godless Liberals is to be found in hatred of a common enemy.

Among the individual diverse Liberal groups, there is no love lost whatsoever, in fact the Muslims want to kill the homosexuals, just as they have begun to do in England, yet both groups remain united in their hatred of Christianity and their defense of each other because of that common hatred. Of course, in the United States, the homosexuals know that the Conservatives will protect them from the Muslims so they have little to fear as long as they don't stray too far into Muslim territory.

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I fully condemn Islam; I'm an equal opportunity hater. The fact they're a minority in the States doesn't change what goes on in most of Africa/Middle East entirely because of Islam. I have no problem handling multiple enemies, nor with telling you that your assessment is way off.

Grim17 said:

That being true, it strongly suggest that the left's often heard claims of being humanitarians, champions for individual rights and freedoms, and people who vehemently oppose all forms of repression and discrimination, are not actual heart felt beliefs for many of them, but rather ideological positions chosen purely for political gain and convenience.

If they truly possessed the core values and beliefs they claim to embrace, without hesitation they would not only acknowledge the truth concerning the undeniable violence and repression associated with the radical side of the Islamic faith and the danger it poses to innocent people, but they would also strongly denounce each one of the actions that take place as a result of their beliefs. What we see instead is their complete abandonment of those core values by the left, in order to avoid any possible results that could have a negative effect on them politically. What their actions are in effect saying is, that they choose to defend those who murder innocent people in the name of their religion, because a) it opposes the position of their political opponents and gives them a platform in which to attack their motives and beliefs, and b) taking the morally correct position and agreeing with the right could have negative political effects, by resulting in more public support for their positions on immigration policy, gun control, military strength and government entitlement programs.

So you're correct, but let me also add that being more critical of Islam would require them to agree with the right... Something that their ideology just won't permit them to do under any circumstances.

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You're off your rocker if you believe that liberals simply take opposing positions to disagree with the conservatives. No liberal (that I know of) was cheering 9/11, the Boston bombings, etc. We liberals simply have differing opinions on what we should do in response to the attacks.

In addition, you seem to have misunderstood the intent of madman's post. He was saying that you hear more hate for Christianity because we mostly have to deal with Christians that we disagree with. No liberal that I know of is saying that Christianity is worse than Islam, or that radical Islam isn't bad.

madman said:

Dont be brainwashed by the right-wing speak of "creeping sharia". This is what they want. They (U.S. christians) want an excuse to have a religious war with them. You can already see it in vitriol that they speak.

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I thought they wanted a religious war with atheists.

the Muslims are just a minor distraction they can use in proxy wars in the middle east.

the major benefits of this is to instill a kind of religious based patriotism and an increase in income from arms sales.

It is not that liberals do not criticize islam, because they do criticize their many hatreds and over the top radicals. It is just that the right has a rabid hatred of Islam that the liberals do not keep up with. So the right wants to kill them and the left simply wants to end the problems in their society. this means the right feels the left is being too weak on them and that means that the left must be supporting them because of the right's warped viewpoint. In reality i have seen far more arguments by the left to end the intense sexism and homophobia of the Islamic states than ever comes from the right.

Oh, and there is also the reality that respecting freedom of speech and religion does not mean liking what those things have to say which seems to confuse the right also. Really it would seem that the perception that the left is not critical of Islam to be a problem of blindness on the part of the right.

afr0byte said:

You're off your rocker if you believe that liberals simply take opposing positions to disagree with the conservatives. No liberal (that I know of) was cheering 9/11, the Boston bombings, etc. We liberals simply have differing opinions on what we should do in response to the attacks.

In addition, you seem to have misunderstood the intent of madman's post. He was saying that you hear more hate for Christianity because we mostly have to deal with Christians that we disagree with. No liberal that I know of is saying that Christianity is worse than Islam, or that radical Islam isn't bad.

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This would also be a matter of perception and environment. being concerned with the problems of Islam while it is a small minority while surrounded by huge abuses by christianity makes no sense. You are far more likely in america to have problems with christianity than any form of islam. Christianity is a massive power and a huge oppressive force in america and therefor it demands a larger response. If america were predominantly Muslim then Islam would be a concern. It is also why the ever present abuses by christianity in the middle east often go unnoticed as christians are in the minority and the problems they create are much smaller than the problems the muslims cause.

Grim17 said:

That being true, it strongly suggest that the left's often heard claims of being humanitarians, champions for individual rights and freedoms, and people who vehemently oppose all forms of repression and discrimination, are not actual heart felt beliefs for many of them, but rather ideological positions chosen purely for political gain and convenience.

If they truly possessed the core values and beliefs they claim to embrace, without hesitation they would not only acknowledge the truth concerning the undeniable violence and repression associated with the radical side of the Islamic faith and the danger it poses to innocent people, but they would also strongly denounce each one of the actions that take place as a result of their beliefs. What we see instead is their complete abandonment of those core values by the left, in order to avoid any possible results that could have a negative effect on them politically. What their actions are in effect saying is, that they choose to defend those who murder innocent people in the name of their religion, because a) it opposes the position of their political opponents and gives them a platform in which to attack their motives and beliefs, and b) taking the morally correct position and agreeing with the right could have negative political effects, by resulting in more public support for their positions on immigration policy, gun control, military strength and government entitlement programs.

So you're correct, but let me also add that being more critical of Islam would require them to agree with the right... Something that their ideology just won't permit them to do under any circumstances.

Click to expand...

This is yet another stupid overgeneralization. The post is also ironic. Exactly what you claim happens with the left, is exactly what happens with the right. One never finds someone on the extreme right taking a position that would seem to have them agree with a position on the left. That is why these people are not really conservatives. They are just anti-liberals. They really have nothing they believe in. Just things they DON'T believe in.

longknife said:

Benjamin Wiker


Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

Click to expand...

Do you ever post anything that is NOT some stupid overgeneralization?

tererun said:

It is not that liberals do not criticize islam, because they do criticize their many hatreds and over the top radicals. It is just that the right has a rabid hatred of Islam that the liberals do not keep up with. So the right wants to kill them and the left simply wants to end the problems in their society. this means the right feels the left is being too weak on them and that means that the left must be supporting them because of the right's warped viewpoint. In reality i have seen far more arguments by the left to end the intense sexism and homophobia of the Islamic states than ever comes from the right.

Oh, and there is also the reality that respecting freedom of speech and religion does not mean liking what those things have to say which seems to confuse the right also. Really it would seem that the perception that the left is not critical of Islam to be a problem of blindness on the part of the right.

Click to expand...

interesting isn't it how often those on the "right" seem to think freedom of speech and freedom of religion should be a one sided matter.

I actually think the question is more .... why doesn't the right understand the concept of human rights?

I am an atheist ... and what americans might refer to as a liberal (although technically this is incorrect), but I respect the right of individuals to practice their faith. This DOES NOT include denying other people their rights, abusing women, persecuting minorities etc.

I recognize that a lot of this does happen under the guise of Islam, just as it has (and sometimes still does) happen under the guise of Christianity. But in condemning and demonizing an entire religion - regardless of which religion - you feed the idea that some adherents like to cling to, that the religion is under siege. This tends to radicalize people and is unhealthy.

If we look at the poverty, and the legacy of conflict in many parts of the muslim world, it is clear that there is a problem, but to claim this is due to Islam alone is not at all helpful.

I have met Muslims who I regard as fundamentalist, intolerant and puritanical, but these are not the only muslims out there. You may find more of these muslims in impoverished third world nations, (although many in these places are not like that) but how much of that is really about Islam? ever spoken to a Christian from Uganda or Malawi? Would you say their fundamentalism, intolerance and puritanism is what Christianity is about?

there are many muslims who would argue that those types of people do not understand Islam, and misrepresent it. based on my contact with muslims in general, I agree with them.

marywollstonecraft said:

I am an atheist ... and what americans might refer to as a liberal (although technically this is incorrect), but I respect the right of individuals to practice their faith. This DOES NOT include denying other people their rights, abusing women, persecuting minorities etc.

I recognize that a lot of this does happen under the guise of Islam, just as it has (and sometimes still does) happen under the guise of Christianity. But in condemning and demonizing an entire religion - regardless of which religion - you feed the idea that some adherents like to cling to, that the religion is under siege. This tends to radicalize people and is unhealthy.

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I agree.

I think criticism is good and necessary so far as it's helpful.

But some criticism of Islam is scarcely even about Islam. Some of the critics who bemoan the oppressive natures of fundamentalist or radical Islam are less concerned about, say, women's rights, and more excited about a conflict that they feel is somehow ennobling to us. It's a dangerous sort of self-indulgence.

And of course it totally ignores the West's profound culpability (cue "self-hating liberal" indictments here. )

As people have said, Muslims aren't actively trying to legislatively cram their ignorant stupidity down our throats.

Also: bill maher islam - Google Search

It's a generalization indeed. Unfortunately, far too often true.

I've stopped critizing Islam, it's a lot easier to advocate the emancipation of women, the rights of gays etc. And then you don't have to count on any support from the American Right either.

My politics are generaly quite liberal. When I apply liberal principles to domestic issues I am usually called a liberal by the various conservative posters, especially those who live in a binary world of good guys and bad guys. When I apply liberal principles to an evaluation of Islamism, however, I am usually called a neocon or a right winger, especially by the lock-step conformist leftists who would not recognize liberalism if it smacked them along side the head.

From where I sit, I'd say hypocrisy abounds all around.

Modern day liberalism is only willing to extend and fight for the ideals and rights they believe in within the boundaries of Western civilization. Once you step outside that area, they become much more tolerant of right-wing extremism they so despise within their own countries.