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Is religion just a story for adults?

Well, since there was no bogeyman behind the corner, I thought there wouldn't be devil and hell too. Just followed the analogy.
Of course I might be wrong but that's what I'm trying to figure out in this thread. ;)

Well, there's a reason indoctrination begins at an early age, because only little children would believe such fables. I have plenty more to say on it, since i just wrote a paper on this topic, but i can see that some are too fragile to handle it (or to just not keep reading!). I'll send a PM in a couple days, when i have more time.
 
Well, since there was no bogeyman behind the corner, I thought there wouldn't be devil and hell too. Just followed the analogy.
Of course I might be wrong but that's what I'm trying to figure out in this thread. ;)
Some things get planted in our mind, some things that are true and some things that are false.

After being planted, some take root, and grow. They are more difficult to remove, regardless whether they're true or false.

Others never really do much, and simply stay as they were planted, decaying after time.

It's really about the soil, the climate, the environment of who we are, and if that changes over time .. and somewhat about the "farmer(s)".

There may be a few things that could grow anywhere .. not sure ...

Regardless, I wonder how we're supposed to know the difference, between those that are true and those that are false.

I also wonder if we'll truely get rewarded/punished for knowing/not-knowing the difference when the "time" comes.

I like to believe that life cannot be so wildly unstable that we'd receive anything either way for being able/unable to differentiate between true and false, considering our mind simpy has no way of really knowing for sure on its own.

But maybe that's the clue .. at least it was for me: the mind, on it's own, simply can't know .. and many things just have to be transcended.

For me, that transcendence occurred when I let go of my mind, journeyed to my heart, experienced through my heart the pain I felt in my soul, healed that pain, and everything changed.

For me, a key moment in that transcendence was when I experienced that either Jesus was indeed a God and thus, by scripture, I was too, or neither of us were.

In letting go, I came to the latter conclusion.

I received peace from that.

Hopefully God will continue that peace when the time comes.

But I can't imagine that, all things considered, I would recieve hell for honestly doing the best that I can.

As receiving hell for doing the best that I can only occurs in dysfunctional families .. at least, so I was taught.
 
Religion was a benefit to society when we were crawling down from the trees, but as Hitchens famously said, it became largely irrelevant with the invention of the first telescope.
 
That is your personal, subjective, unverifiable opinion, whether you like it or not.

Wrong....2 Corinthians 5:11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Are you really suggesting that what Adam did to make all men die is more powerful that what Jesus Christ did?????

The Gospel means "good news". The good news is that Jesus dies for our sins. You can't experience that benefits until you believe, but you are forgiven none the less. It's like a man that inherits a million dollars. If he doesn't believe he inherited and never uses it, he doesn't experience the benefit of the money, but he is a million heir none the less.
 
See, that's where you're wrong. There is no rational basis whatsoever to believe in any god. As such, rational people have every right to point out how absurd religious belief is, just like they ought to point out how stupid belief in alien abductions, Bigfoot and honest politicians is. You sit there and make all kinds of absurd statements, none of which you can back up with evidence You might as well substitute "chubacabra" for "God" and "Mongolian Death Worms" for "Jesus" and it would make just as much sense.

That's something that the irrational need to figure out, making empty claims don't impress anyone.

You're right about physical proof of God.... I don't have it. But I know beyond the shadow of doubt that He is real. My experience with the living God is nothing short of miraculous. So, I understand why you don't believe... you have never experienced Him. And, since your heart and mind is closed, you probably never will, but I will pray for you.
 
You're right about physical proof of God.... I don't have it. But I know beyond the shadow of doubt that He is real. My experience with the living God is nothing short of miraculous. So, I understand why you don't believe... you have never experienced Him. And, since your heart and mind is closed, you probably never will, but I will pray for you.

You use the words he and him. So are you sure God is male? There is no female God?
 
Of course God is a male. Only a male would equate women to cattle.
 
You use the words he and him. So are you sure God is male? There is no female God?

Absolutely!!!! By the way.... God identifies Himself as male, but I would venture that, in reality, there is no real need for gender in the Spirit. In fact...

Galatians 3:26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I would venture to say, although I have no proof, that God did so because people were patriarchal at that time.
 
You're right about physical proof of God.... I don't have it. But I know beyond the shadow of doubt that He is real. My experience with the living God is nothing short of miraculous. So, I understand why you don't believe... you have never experienced Him. And, since your heart and mind is closed, you probably never will, but I will pray for you.

The problem is, you're just wrong. You have no basis for making a claim of knowledge, you have no evidence to support your claim. Your claim of knowledge beyond a shadow of a doubt is an empty claim. It's no better than someone believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that leprechauns are real. You have faith, but that faith is blind, you are just asserting that you had experiences with God and cannot demonstrate that you ever did. Yes, you might have had experiences, you are just arbitrarily assigning a cause to them because it makes you feel good.

I spent many years as a Christian. I got better. Hopefully you will too. I won't pray for you but I will think for you, clearly someone ought to.
 
Absolutely!!!! By the way.... God identifies Himself as male, but I would venture that, in reality, there is no real need for gender in the Spirit. In fact...

God doesn't identify himself as anything, God never made a single demonstrable statement. Stop equating mindless, blind faith with reality.
 
Wrong....2 Corinthians 5:11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Are you really suggesting that what Adam did to make all men die is more powerful that what Jesus Christ did?????

The Gospel means "good news". The good news is that Jesus dies for our sins. You can't experience that benefits until you believe, but you are forgiven none the less. It's like a man that inherits a million dollars. If he doesn't believe he inherited and never uses it, he doesn't experience the benefit of the money, but he is a million heir none the less.
Nope, I'm suggesting that Adam never existed and Jesus, if he actually existed, was just another Jew.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
How so? What do you mean?

So:

Most sects of Christianity accept the doctrine of original sin.

Judaism has a somewhat similar concept, in that mankind is "fallen."

Islam accepts that, left to our own devices, we would be unruly and would also find ourselves in hell after we die.

Buddhism says that people exist in a state of Dukkha (lack of satisfaction, dis-ease).

Hinduism says that people are beholden to Maya, a great illusion which is harmful in various ways.

Etc.

My point is that there's a distinction between these claims, and a claim that if you fail to do this or that, or fail to refrain from this or that, a demon/devil/god/angel will visit retribution upon you, perhaps for all eternity.
 
The problem is, you're just wrong. You have no basis for making a claim of knowledge, you have no evidence to support your claim. Your claim of knowledge beyond a shadow of a doubt is an empty claim. It's no better than someone believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that leprechauns are real. You have faith, but that faith is blind, you are just asserting that you had experiences with God and cannot demonstrate that you ever did. Yes, you might have had experiences, you are just arbitrarily assigning a cause to them because it makes you feel good.

I spent many years as a Christian. I got better. Hopefully you will too. I won't pray for you but I will think for you, clearly someone ought to.

LOL, that's funny. Neither you or anybody else can claim any knowledge of my experiences. I can claim that I have experienced God. The sheer power of my experiences is impossible for me to ignore. You can deny it all you want, but you will never be able to convince me. I am sorry that your very limited experience with Christianity was so fruitless. I don't know with whom your experience lies, but it must have been very shallow.

Your claim that there is no god can not be substantiated in any way, shape or form. You simply lack faith in anything but man. man is completely flawed and yet you all seem to think he is the highest form of life.
 
God doesn't identify himself as anything, God never made a single demonstrable statement. Stop equating mindless, blind faith with reality.

Jesus Christ is real. He actually lived on this planet. He demonstrated His power in front of the entire nation of Israel. They, even though they deny He is God, still know and admit that He actually existed. He called God His "Father in Heaven".
 
Nope, I'm suggesting that Adam never existed and Jesus, if he actually existed, was just another Jew.

Well then, I must really be impressed with Jesus even more so. A dissident Jew that had such a huge affect on the entire planet for thousands of years and is still going strong. Very, very impressive.., LOL
 
Well then, I must really be impressed with Jesus even more so. A dissident Jew that had such a huge affect on the entire planet for thousands of years and is still going strong. Very, very impressive.., LOL
Impressive?!
There's many things I'd call the historical effects of Christianity as per promoting ignorance, the inquisition, crusades, witch-hunting, child-molesting etc. but "impressive" wouldn't be one of them. Particularly considering that an all-powerful, kindly, loving "god" is supposedly the bloke who put all that in motion.
 
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Jesus Christ is real. He actually lived on this planet. He demonstrated His power in front of the entire nation of Israel. They, even though they deny He is God, still know and admit that He actually existed. He called God His "Father in Heaven".

Prove any of that with objective evidence or be exposed for the fraud that you are.
 
LOL, that's funny. Neither you or anybody else can claim any knowledge of my experiences. I can claim that I have experienced God. The sheer power of my experiences is impossible for me to ignore. You can deny it all you want, but you will never be able to convince me. I am sorry that your very limited experience with Christianity was so fruitless. I don't know with whom your experience lies, but it must have been very shallow.

Yes, you can *CLAIM* to have had experiences with God. Back when I was a Christian, I thought I did too. I was wrong. You cannot produce any evidence that what you experienced was God, you can just pretend that it was. That's why Christians like you are so utterly laughable.

Your claim that there is no god can not be substantiated in any way, shape or form. You simply lack faith in anything but man. man is completely flawed and yet you all seem to think he is the highest form of life.

I don't claim that there is no god, I say that no theist has ever made a valid case for their being one. It's the same as leprechauns. I don't state that there are no leprechauns, I state that they have never been demonstrated to exist. Until you're able to produce evidence for the factual existence of any god, then you fall into the category of failed claimant too.
 
Howdy!

I was walking the other day on an very quite street (cars seldom pass there) and there were a woman and her small ~3-4 years old child. The child was trying to run around and I guess the woman didn't want to bother, so she said: "Stay calm or the Boogie man will come and take you away!".
I thought: "Hm, may be religion is just like that - it scares the **** out of us with fake Boogie men (devil, hell, etc) to make us compliant and controllable".

So, what say you? :rolleyes:

When I was about 12 years old, my dad asked me, "How do we know that the Bible and God wasn't invented by man to give him a roadmap to live by?" I've never forgotten it. I don't ever remember my dad setting foot in a church. I've gone to church on and off forever.

The only thing wrong with dad's question was that it didn't far enough: How do we know religion wasn't invented by those who wished to control us? The answer is, without faith, we don't know the answer to that.

Agnosticism works for me. And, if there is a God, I know he'll understand.
 
The only thing wrong with dad's question was that it didn't far enough: How do we know religion wasn't invented by those who wished to control us? The answer is, without faith, we don't know the answer to that.

Actually, we do know the answer to that, theists simply refuse to acknowledge the reality behind it. Blind faith makes one blind and that's nothing to be proud of.
 
Impressive?!
There's many things I'd call the historical effects of Christianity as per promoting ignorance, the inquisition, crusades, witch-hunting, child-molesting etc. but "impressive" wouldn't be one of them. Particularly considering that an all-powerful, kindly, loving "god" is supposedly the bloke who put all that in motion.

Your Christian history is flawed. I agree that the "religious, so called Christians, did many horrible things. That is NOT the Church that Jesus Christ stared. If you take what Jesus Christ, Paul and the other real Apostles taught, you would know that. Real Christianity has nothing to do with what they did. I was talking about how the Christ affected most of the world for many years. There has always been a true remnant that follows the teachings of Christ.
 
Prove any of that with objective evidence or be exposed for the fraud that you are.

All you have to do is ask any Jewish person if Jesus existed, they would say "yes, but He was a prophet.
 
Yes, you can *CLAIM* to have had experiences with God. Back when I was a Christian, I thought I did too. I was wrong. You cannot produce any evidence that what you experienced was God, you can just pretend that it was. That's why Christians like you are so utterly laughable.



I don't claim that there is no god, I say that no theist has ever made a valid case for their being one. It's the same as leprechauns. I don't state that there are no leprechauns, I state that they have never been demonstrated to exist. Until you're able to produce evidence for the factual existence of any god, then you fall into the category of failed claimant too.

I know that my knee was healed right after it was dislocated while roller skating, it hasn't dislocated since (20+ years). I know how the Holy Spirit revealed Jesus Christ to me without anybody talking to me at the time. I know that there are other unexplained events that I have seen over the years. I know my witness. Maybe I can't demonstrate it to you, but I also have no reason to lie either. What would be the point.... to win an argument against you???? Trust me, I have many better things to do. It seems to me that your experience with Christianity has been lame and shallow. You know nothing of the love of Christ, which is real Christianity in action. I get it. I fought being a Christian for years. It took a real act of God to intervene in my life to turn me around. Sorry, but you could ridicule me, black ball me, tar and feather me, torture me, or kill me, and you will never make an inch of headway to get me to doubt my Lord. I KNOW HIM, He is real, and He is my Father.
 
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