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Death

Medusa said:
what is it ?
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The cessation of life. The body's functions stop, the brain becomes deprived of oxygen, and then that person is no more.

like the loss of consciousness as you can experience while under anaesthesia or a brain death which causes you to lose all brain functions .or a total death that occurs after all body functions stop working ? or going into another dimension ?
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Depends on the type of anesthesia used. General anesthesia, so I hear, is the closest thing to death you can experience without actually dying. I've been put under for surgery before. It's just a void. It's nothing like sleep at all, because there were no dreams, no recollections of anything. there wasn't even a blackness. It was as if the time I was under had never happened. I was on one bed, then I was somewhere else.

some people coming back from the death claim that they saw a bright light when their hearts stopped beating . did your beloved ones whom you lost ever visit you in your dreams ? do dreams always occur because of our id ? or sometimes they may be a sign that our deceased loved ones still feel us ?
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Sure, I've had dreams, but it was just psychological distress.
 
Surtr said:
The cessation of life. The body's functions stop, the brain becomes deprived of oxygen, and then that person is no more.


Depends on the type of anesthesia used. General anesthesia, so I hear, is the closest thing to death you can experience without actually dying. I've been put under for surgery before. It's just a void. It's nothing like sleep at all, because there were no dreams, no recollections of anything. there wasn't even a blackness. It was as if the time I was under had never happened. I was on one bed, then I was somewhere else.



Sure, I've had dreams, but it was just psychological distress.
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some dreams may tell you the future . nearly 5 years ago , l had seen my grandparents in my dream a few days before a fire occured at home which l was rescued from by chance . they were distributing me lots of buckets full of water and they were saying " you may need it " when l asked them why they gave me those buckets. isnt it interesting ?

parapsychology is very interesting field .l had felt the major earthquake in my dream while it was occuring at 3 am in 1999 .l dont exactly remember but household claimed l was screaming that " something occured " repeatedly .horrible .also l just remember that l felt alysosis during my rem sleep .

one more thing ,l used to see repetitive nightmares about my grandparents during my extended mourning period .it is psychological but what is more interesting is that these nightmares began to lessen after l had turned to religion and begun to feel the god by heart . they no longer got angry with me in my dreams
 
Death is like not being born. A mayfly hatches, lives, mates, and dies in a day. In the grand scale of things we are no different. If we're lucky it's a sunny one.
 
Paralogic said:
You have not died either,

So, listen to the more educated than you.
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none of us died but you are more educated on this than me



at least l dont claim l know it better than you
 
Medusa said:
some dreams may tell you the future . nearly 5 years ago , l had seen my grandparents in my dream a few days before a fire occured at home which l was rescued from by chance . they were distributing me lots of buckets full of water and they were saying " you may need it " when l asked them why they gave me those buckets. isnt it interesting ?

parapsychology is very interesting field .l had felt the major earthquake in my dream while it was occuring at 3 am in 1999 .l dont exactly remember but household claimed l was screaming that " something occured " repeatedly .horrible .also l just remember that l felt alysosis during my rem sleep .

one more thing ,l used to see repetitive nightmares about my grandparents during my extended mourning period .it is psychological but what is more interesting is that these nightmares began to lessen after l had turned to religion and begun to feel the god by heart . they no longer got angry with me in my dreams
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Parapsychology isn't really in my field of knowledge. I'm sure there's something to it, since I've heard similar things, but I've never experienced it and can't have an informed opinion about it.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I will not argue with your beliefs. But do not expect me to take your assertions on faith. You can tell me until you are blue in the face that you researched and came to a conclusion that doesnt do anything for your claim. Well I take that back it does do something but nothing creditable. So yes I do think that your position is ill-considered and unfounded and entirely faith based.
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You're not in a position to make that judgment.

FreedomFromAll said:
How do you know? The same way that I know that the light in my fridge turns off when I close the door.
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What does your refrigerator have to do with the experiential quality of death?

FreedomFromAll said:
So in turn I ask you what part of dead do you not understand?
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Probably the same parts you don't.

FreedomFromAll said:
Dead is no longer living; deprived of life. Not endowed with life; inanimate.
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Yes, I know that.

FreedomFromAll said:
The brain is entirely necessary and to prove that point just show me one instance of a consciousness that requires no brain?
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Well, if I am right, yours would probably be one example.
 
ashurbanipal said:
You're not in a position to make that judgment.
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Judgement? Who was judging?



What does your refrigerator have to do with the experiential quality of death?
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Death has "experiential quality" since while dead you do not exist.

Dead is dead is dead. I couldnt make it any clearer.



Probably the same parts you don't.
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There is nothing to understand other than a dead body is no longer alive. There isnt any magic involved since magic is fantasy.



Yes, I know that.
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Then you are being hypocritical.



Well, if I am right, yours would probably be one example.
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If you are right lol right about what exactly? Are you claiming that we need no brains? In all of that "careful study of academic and scientific sources" did you miss the part about the functions of the brain?
 
Medusa said:
some dreams may tell you the future . nearly 5 years ago , l had seen my grandparents in my dream a few days before a fire occured at home which l was rescued from by chance . they were distributing me lots of buckets full of water and they were saying " you may need it " when l asked them why they gave me those buckets. isnt it interesting ?

parapsychology is very interesting field .l had felt the major earthquake in my dream while it was occuring at 3 am in 1999 .l dont exactly remember but household claimed l was screaming that " something occured " repeatedly .horrible .also l just remember that l felt alysosis during my rem sleep .

one more thing ,l used to see repetitive nightmares about my grandparents during my extended mourning period .it is psychological but what is more interesting is that these nightmares began to lessen after l had turned to religion and begun to feel the god by heart . they no longer got angry with me in my dreams
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Parapsychology is pseudoscience and has nothing to do with reality. You can make up stories about your dreams and all kinds of nonsense but it will never prove a damn thing.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Judgement? Who was judging?
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You were. Here's the OED definition (#11) of the verb judge:

To form the opinion, or hold as an opinion; to come to a conclusion, infer; to apprehend, think, consider, suppose.

Definition #9 is similar, but the above seems slightly more general.

You wrote:

FreedomFromAll said:
You can tell me until you are blue in the face that you researched and came to a conclusion that doesnt do anything for your claim. Well I take that back it does do something but nothing creditable. So yes I do think that your position is ill-considered and unfounded and entirely faith based.
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The bolded parts are (some of) your opinions concerning my view. Ergo, you judged. But you're in no position to do so, since (presumably) you do not know me, you don't know what kind of education I've received, what sort of research I have done, and so on.

Please note that this is example #1 of me demonstrating proper etiquette in a discussion: when asked a direct question, you should answer it directly. Failure to do so leads to the conclusion that you're not interested in truth.

There are obvious caveats to this rule. For example, if I (or anyone) were to ask something like "what are all the books you have ever read, along with summaries of each? Account for how each one affected your mind?" that would be overreaching, and someone would be right not to answer, or at most give a relatively brief general answer.

FreedomFromAll said:
Dead is dead is dead. I couldnt make it any clearer.
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It seems to me that we've had something like this discussion before, and you employed similar tactics. This does not answer the questions I've asked you, which I ask again, as directly as possible.

You claim that death is an experiential blank, or something like that. I asked: how do you know that? You replied that you know it the same way you know the light goes off in your refrigerator when you close the door. So, I ask: what does your refrigerator have to do with your knowledge of death?

FreedomFromAll said:
There is nothing to understand other than a dead body is no longer alive.
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I disagree. Why do you think this is all there is to understand about death (note: this is another direct question)?

FreedomFromAll said:
There isnt any magic involved since magic is fantasy.
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Two more direct questions:

1) How do you know?

2) Why does it matter to the topic at hand?


FreedomFromAll said:
Then you are being hypocritical.
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In what way?

FreedomFromAll said:
If you are right lol right about what exactly?
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That brains are neither necessary nor sufficient conditions for consciousness to exist. Please note how I directly answer the question you directly ask.

FreedomFromAll said:
Are you claiming that we need no brains?
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Well, to be alive, we need brains. But we do not, on my view, need brains for the continuation of consciousness, though I think it's likely that consciousness changes considerably without a working brain. In other words, brains are necessary to the quality of our particular consciousness, but they are not necessary to the having of consciousness simpliciter. Again, note that I'm answering your question.

FreedomFromAll said:
In all of that "careful study of academic and scientific sources" did you miss the part about the functions of the brain?
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I doubt very seriously that I did, since the bulk of my research was in the neuroscience, psychology, and cognitive science relevant to consciousness, memory, experience, volition, and agency.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Parapsychology is pseudoscience and has nothing to do with reality. You can make up stories about your dreams and all kinds of nonsense but it will never prove a damn thing.
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relax ,it doesnt mean there is a god..............
 
Death is the ultimate end. It's where the various compounds that came to form your existence are given back in a more entropic form.It is the time when I will finally get to stop interacting with the idiots, with which, I share almost all of my DNA.

"Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Parapsychology is pseudoscience and has nothing to do with reality. You can make up stories about your dreams and all kinds of nonsense but it will never prove a damn thing.
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Let's also not forget the brain isn't exactly perfect and will try to link certain things.
 
ashurbanipal said:
You were. Here's the OED definition (#11) of the verb judge:

To form the opinion, or hold as an opinion; to come to a conclusion, infer; to apprehend, think, consider, suppose.

Definition #9 is similar, but the above seems slightly more general.

You wrote:



The bolded parts are (some of) your opinions concerning my view. Ergo, you judged. But you're in no position to do so, since (presumably) you do not know me, you don't know what kind of education I've received, what sort of research I have done, and so on.
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Then perhaps then you should not expect me to know something that you have not shared?
You made a claim from authority then did not prove that authority so therefor I returned snark since that was the only logical direction to go.
Please note that this is example #1 of me demonstrating proper etiquette in a discussion: when asked a direct question, you should answer it directly. Failure to do so leads to the conclusion that you're not interested in truth.

There are obvious caveats to this rule. For example, if I (or anyone) were to ask something like "what are all the books you have ever read, along with summaries of each? Account for how each one affected your mind?" that would be overreaching, and someone would be right not to answer, or at most give a relatively brief general answer.



It seems to me that we've had something like this discussion before, and you employed similar tactics. This does not answer the questions I've asked you, which I ask again, as directly as possible.

You claim that death is an experiential blank, or something like that. I asked: how do you know that? You replied that you know it the same way you know the light goes off in your refrigerator when you close the door. So, I ask: what does your refrigerator have to do with your knowledge of death?
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I did not claim "experiential blank, or something like that" that was all you. I claimed the obvious and provable fact that dead is dead. Your tactics involves trying to make me defend the position that you assigned to me that I never claimed.


I disagree. Why do you think this is all there is to understand about death (note: this is another direct question)?



Two more direct questions:

1) How do you know?

2) Why does it matter to the topic at hand?
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1. Because the definition of dead is that there isnt any life.
2. Because I have never seen a dead person be alive while dead.
3. You see no correlation between what is death and the definition of dead?
In what way?
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You on one hand agree with the definition of dead then turn around and say that dead people are not actually dead through some unexplained weirdness that you claim makes sense.



That brains are neither necessary nor sufficient conditions for consciousness to exist. Please note how I directly answer the question you directly ask.
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Well thanks for your opinion and I am sure that you completely see your own rational but I see it as merely wishful thinking. Feel free to prove me wrong though.



Well, to be alive, we need brains. But we do not, on my view, need brains for the continuation of consciousness, though I think it's likely that consciousness changes considerably without a working brain. In other words, brains are necessary to the quality of our particular consciousness, but they are not necessary to the having of consciousness simpliciter. Again, note that I'm answering your question.
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Thats great but how exactly did you come up with that opinion that a consciousness can just exist in nothing? Or are you going to tell me where that mythical place would be?

simpliciter indeed, though I had expected a better level of explanation (or any) rather than you just sharing your opinions.



I doubt very seriously that I did, since the bulk of my research was in the neuroscience, psychology, and cognitive science relevant to consciousness, memory, experience, volition, and agency.
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Really yours or my research pedigree matters nothing to this conversation. What actually matters is what is true. You so far have put forth your opinion about the nature of death being less than death in fact you claimed that no one really dies. Your claim asserts that consciousness is a immortal affair.

I have claimed that death is void of life. I claim mortality. I believe under the circumstances by assertion is much more rational and true. All that you need to do to prove me wrong is show us one living dead consciousness.
 
Medusa said:
science hasnt yet discovered everything ..wait...

there is always the probability of some scientific facts being proven wrong.
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Of course everything has not been discovered yet. But that doesnt make Parapsychology relevant.

Science has proven some absolute truths and will continue to dispel pseudoscience and religious notions. The Earth is not the center of the galaxy nor the center of the Solar system and no matter how much time goes by those facts will not change. one plus one will always equal two. The fact that some human may get those things wrongs does not devalue science in general. And faith will never change a truth.
 
Altenhof4Prez said:
a few days after i had surgeury i exprienced sleep paralysis dont know if it has any correlation....scary stuff man
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I had a few experiences not so much of that, but when I'm ill my body tries to warn me via really bad nightmares. The smart part of you knows you're in danger. It keeps working through the dangers during sleep, trying to find ways to warn and protect you.

The worst, after an illness I lay on one side just resting and the side uppermost went as cold as a stone. During that period I had a few dreams about Death and a conversation with him. It went "Oh it's you. Is that you back for me now? Ok, I'm just coming in a minute" followed by gasping and wakening up.

Plainly I recovered from the illness and didn't bother going with Death. My feeling is when you're dead you're dead and you don't know anything about it.
 
Medusa said:
death...what is it like
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According to Rimmer from "Red Dwarf", it is like a vacation - a long, long vacation with a group of German tourists.
 
I agree with Mancskipper - you are born, you die, it is all part of a natural cycle. We can only hope we get a few jollies in between the two. And like Hitchens said - I didn't miss the billions of years before I was born, and I'm not going to be bothered about the billions after I cark it. :lol:
 
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