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Paul, Not Jesus Spead Chrisitianity

I guess I just thought the Bible was common knowledge even for non-religious people. Hmm.

For many people, it seems they only know the things that are helpful in their cause: the crusade against Christianity. ;)

Iow, they pick and choose, according to their need.
 
I also think a lot of people won't open a Bible because they feel guilty that they've been too bad. Reading stories of Paul, David, etc....made me feel a little better about myself.

I must confess that I identify more with the more "spirited" characters myself. :lol:
 
I must confess that I identify more with the more "spirited" characters myself. :lol:

So do I. I remember as a 5th-grader the **** crowing three times and bursting into tears because I saw myself so totally in Peter. Ya, I could definitely been that guy.

If you understand who David was, just as an example, and what a rotten asshat he could be, I think you might have a little hope for yourself. He sent an innocent man off to die on the frontline just so he could bag his wife...and yet his Father still loved him.
 
Paul was accepted by the Apostles, including Peter, the rock on which the Church was built, and John, the disciple whom Christ loved. From a Christian point of view that makes Paul's conversion and contact with Christ basically unimpeachable.

It is certainly true that Christ trumps Paul, and, except for a few Protestants down the ages, the Gospels have always been treated with greater reverence than the epistles. But I'm always perplexed when people say things like Christ was more tolerant than Paul. Actually, Christ often is clearly marking out the path of perfection, the path of the Saint. Hence, we see Christ say things like to look on a woman with lust is to commit adultery in your heart. Paul actually adapts Christianity, providentially no doubt, to the Gentiles and with far greater emphasis on the spiritual path of the average, sinful man. There are imbalances in Paul's perspective no doubt, which will burst forth in Augustinian and then, even more so, in Protestant Christianity (Luther's devotion to a Pauline position is so strong as to make him refer to the epistle of James as the epistle of straw and wish to remove it from the Scriptures, for example).

You are correct......in some respects Paul may have even surpassed the original disciples in the devoutness of his Faith. There is, for example, the one instance where Paul, himself even goes as far as to rebuke Peter......calling him a hypocrite. :shrug:
 
I learned something this weekend I never knew. A man named Saul was determined to kill off al followers of Jesus Christ and aided in the murder of nearly all of them. He then had a "experience" that changed him to then spread the word of Jesus. According to this documentary he changed his name to Paul and spent his life spreading the word. It went on to say if it were not for this man Paul it may be that Chrisitanity never would have survived for the lack of followers. One question jumps out at me, if Jesus was the Messiha (sp) why was his following so tiny? Just how many of his follwers were there? I know nothing of the Bible but I always assumed there were hundreds of thousands following him (Jesus) while he was alive.

Whether you believe in scriptures or not - the fact remains that for a considerable length of time, early in Christian history, Christians were persecuted and punished for their beliefs all over the region . . . the religion is considered to have started 'underground' where early Christians used catacombs (etc) to keep after their faith. Biblical issues are all cataloged (mostly - anyway) in the Bible. Later on, however, you find the 100 years war in Europe and the contention in England regarding Henry the VIII and his conversion (albeit for personally jilted reasons) and so on.

In the Bible (specifics ellude me) there's a story of one follower and how he lived in a region where his faith and thus praying to God was against the law . . . he prayed in front of his window anyway and I believe he was even tossed in jail - or risked it anyway - to prove his point (that you shouldn't hide your faith).

Which is what's notable about Paul/Saul - he persecuted Christians before he became one.

Later in the Bible (New Testament) he takes on 12 followers (Disciples of Christ) through which Christianity is further spread in different ways - each one facing their own issues, problems and troubles regarding Christianity in life (one of the most well known is Judas) . . . after his death they were known as the Apostles.

God chose people from beginning to end to spread the word, experience his blessings and so forth - he always worked through people - heal the blind man, the blind man will spread the word. Heal the leprosy and the leopard will spread the word. Resurrect Lazarus and Lazarus will spread the word. Feed the hungry with loaves and fishes and the people will spread the word.

Considering the limitations of the time (how word HAD to spread - word of mouth only and MAYBE the written word but that was much less likely). . .Word of mouth had to do it and the best way to get that far and wide is to affect as many people directly and or indirectly as possible. Couldn't rely on the written word because so few knew how to read - and you had significant language barriers, too . . .and cost. Word of mouth back then was free as a bird.

It's quite efficient - benefit someone directly and whole heartedly and they will follow you through hell and back.

Thus - the common belief that 'he was chosen by God to go God's will'
 
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...if Jesus was the Messiha (sp) why was his following so tiny? Just how many of his follwers were there? I know nothing of the Bible but I always assumed there were hundreds of thousands following him (Jesus) while he was alive.

Jesus, if he existed, was a human being. In his time, revolutionaries were a dime a dozen. The historical circumstances of his existence and his effect in the society of his time are well documented... they were minimal.

Why Jesus became a godly symbol, the Christ, is a sociology issue that is also well documented and analyzed, and it has nothing to do with human existence, only with mass human psychological behavior.

There is no Messiah because there are no gods, and we all know that is true.
 
Jesus, if he existed, was a human being. In his time, revolutionaries were a dime a dozen. The historical circumstances of his existence and his effect in the society of his time are well documented... they were minimal.

Why Jesus became a godly symbol, the Christ, is a sociology issue that is also well documented and analyzed, and it has nothing to do with human existence, only with mass human psychological behavior.

There is no Messiah because there are no gods, and we all know that is true.

There were plenty of revolutionarires, and Jesus was not exactly one of them, Jesus was more or less a pacifist, communitarian, spiritualist and religious reformer.

In his time they were not exactly minimal, Herod heard of him and then basically dismissed him, but the fact that Herod heard of him however, as well as John the Baptist, means that his effect was real, the fact that he was tried in the Sanhedrin also shows that. His effect didn't rise to the level of threatening the Roman empire or anything like that, but that doesn't mean it was minimal.

You have no evidence for the statement "there are no gods," it's just a toutology, but that wasn't the topic here was it.

Jesus did not spread christianity, christianity started years after his death, part of it was under the stewardship of james the brother of Jesus, then Peter and Paul, the bible writes about paul, even though he wasn't an apostle, but the other apostles also preached and traveled and spread christianity but we don't have record of that in the bible.
 
I also think a lot of people won't open a Bible because they feel guilty that they've been too bad.

Think again. A lot of people won't open a bible because unless you're invested in reading it, it's pretty boring.
 
You have a good point. They've only sold a couple of them over the years, so it must be boring.


Think again. A lot of people won't open a bible because unless you're invested in reading it, it's pretty boring.
 
I guess I just thought the Bible was common knowledge even for non-religious people. Hmm.

Trust me, you would do well to NEVER make this assumption. If a child is raised in a household where religion isn't important, than they very likely will not learn it. Bible stories are not conversations people tend to have outside of certain social contexts (church or religious households, basically).
 
...Jesus was more or less a pacifist, communitarian, spiritualist and religious reformer.

... a communist.

... You have no evidence for the statement "there are no gods," it's just a toutology, but that wasn't the topic here was it.

I do.

No one has evidence to support the claim that "a god exists", therefore no gods exist by definition.
 
Yes, of course. What, do you think that every Christian was born one?

I'm going to work, so if you reply, I may reply to yours later. Have a good day.


You ever seen a non-Christian pick up the bible for a bit of light reading?
 
There were plenty of revolutionarires, and Jesus was not exactly one of them, Jesus was more or less a pacifist, communitarian, spiritualist and religious reformer.

The remarkable thing about Jesus was somehow this man was every political philosophy known to man at the same time. [/sarcasm]
 
You ever seen a non-Christian pick up the bible for a bit of light reading?

If you have not read, and indeed quite deeply, the KJV you cannot in any sense be well-read in English literature. It is equal to Shakespeare, Milton, Chaucer, and Bunyan as one of the great works of English literature, just as the Bible in any decent translation or language is one of the classics of Western literature. Not only that, but it is actually a remarkable work of literature.
 
No one has evidence to support the claim that "a god exists", therefore no gods exist by definition.

"By definition," THIS is an Argument from Ignorance.

Really, it's textbook. I'd almost congratulate you for the perfection of form if it weren't such a boneheaded fallacy.
 
You ever seen a non-Christian pick up the bible for a bit of light reading?

Yes. My parents are/were devout Christians, and they read their Bibles daily. Not for instruction on how to live, as they already had a good basis and foundation for living and for their belief system, but as a comfort for them. Psalms and Proverbs has some quite beautiful reading material.
 
Jesus was a Republican.

Jesus was apolitical, but the only political philosophy compatible with Christian practice is libertarianism, which is the only political philosophy which truly respects the instructions of Christ.
 
Jesus was apolitical, but the only political philosophy compatible with Christian practice is libertarianism, which is the only political philosophy which truly respects the instructions of Christ.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic.
 
The person who really gave Christianity a boost was Constantine, who legitimized Christianity in the Roman Empire. It was the Romans who spread it to Europe, and the Europeans who spread it to the new world. Had it not been for Constantine, Christianity would have been a minor historical curiosity, a religion practiced for a time in a limited geographic space by a handful of devout followers.

So, why isn't Constantine sanctified?

And why can't American Christians understand that because of Constantine legitimizing Christianity in the Roman empire and it's consequential spread throughout Europe, they are Christians as a result. Europeans brought Christianity to North America and decimated the indigenous populations or forced them to convert. North America could have been dominated by any other religion of any other people who could have arrived here first and done the same. This country is largely Christian because of who settled it, period. It wasn't some divine 'god bless America' manifestation.
 
You JUST learned the story of Saul/Paul? How is that possible?

How is that not possible? Not everyone has read the bible, or was raised Christian.
 
And why can't American Christians understand that because of Constantine legitimizing Christianity in the Roman empire and it's consequential spread throughout Europe, they are Christians as a result. Europeans brought Christianity to North America and decimated the indigenous populations or forced them to convert. North America could have been dominated by any other religion of any other people who could have arrived here first and done the same. This country is largely Christian because of who settled it, period. It wasn't some divine 'god bless America' manifestation.

Strangely enough, you invoked people who were here "first," and who had different religions.
 
Strangely enough, you invoked people who were here "first," and who had different religions.

The Spanish, who wiped out the massive central American populations (Aztecs, Mayans) were Catholic. The European settlers from England which subsequently formed the colonies and eventually the United States were all Christians of varying denominations. The people of the United States then spread west to the Pacific coast and wiped out all of the Native Americans along the way. They even destroyed the indidenous Hawaiian culture and implemented Christianity.

"First," meaning arriving here from elsewhere. Not the Pagan Native Americans.
 
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