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"Expelled" Film

zgoldsmith23

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I recently re-watched this masterpiece (/sarcasm) and while I still think the movie was terrible and a crock, I liked the small interview with Will Provine. The YouTube video is below and it's earlier in the piece. If anyone has seen the movie, chime in. Also, what is thought about Provine's views?

To my knowledge, Provine is still alive and teaching at UChicago.

 
I didn't see "Expelled", however, I do disagree with his premise that there is no human free will. The fact that we make choices, and weigh the odds of the outcome of choices, implies free will exists. If I have to choose between two actions- one which benefits me, but causes harm to others, and one which may not be in my best immediate interest, but will benefit others, the choice hinges on my personal value system, and is determined by what I believe to be more important. The existence of my personal value system does not mean that I have no free will, but that I choose, and am willing to live with the consequences of my choice, whatever it may be.
 
Someone did a version of Expelled a long time ago where they subtitled all of the non-scientific nonsense with the actual facts. Otherwise, I couldn't have made it through the thing without throwing something heavy through the TV.
 
I watched Expelled back when I was in college and, unfortunately, a young-earth creationist. Back then I thought it "confirmed my faith," now I can't even sit through it because of my frustration with its inaccuracies, distortions, and flat-out lies regarding science, scientists, and the scientific method. It's an absurd piece of anti-science fundamentalist propaganda.
 
Prof. Provine's statements are nihilistic, and in my opinion, show the worst side of secularism and atheism. The fact is that most educated people who deny evolution do so for emotional reasons, often fueled by anti-humanistic rhetoric like Provine's. They don't like the consequences of a world without an interventionist creator, so they push the unpleasant thoughts from their heads to avoid dealing with the possible reality of a godless universe.

Personally, although I am an atheist, I still find reasons to live, a foundation for ethics, and grounds for -- if not "free will" -- at least some kind of capacity for choice. My reason for living is to do as much good and spread as much kindness as possible.

I feel ethics is largely subjective and aesthetic, but can still be rationally grounded on the desires and preferences of sentient beings (beings capable of subjective experience), including, but not limited to, humans. Basically, on this system, one should act in such a way as not to violate the basic, most deeply-held desires of sentient beings (for instance, the desire to live, pursue happiness), unless a compelling reason exists to do so.


Side note: Provine teaches at Cornell, not Chicago.
 
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Prof. Provine's statements are nihilistic, and in my opinion, show the worst side of secularism and atheism. The fact is that most educated people who deny evolution do so for emotional reasons, often fueled by anti-humanistic rhetoric like Provine's. They don't like the consequences of a world without an interventionist creator, so they push the unpleasant thoughts from their heads to avoid dealing with the possible reality of a godless universe.

Personally, although I am an atheist, I still find reasons to live, a foundation for ethics, and grounds for -- if not "free will" -- at least some kind of capacity for choice. My reason for living is to do as much good and spread as much kindness as possible.

I feel ethics is largely subjective and aesthetic, but can still be rationally grounded on the desires and preferences of sentient beings (beings capable of subjective experience), including, but not limited to, humans. Basically, on this system, one should act in such a way as not to violate the basic, most deeply-held desires of sentient beings (for instance, the desire to live, pursue happiness), unless a compelling reason exists to do so.


Side note: Provine teaches at Cornell, not Chicago.

The Anti-Nihilist - Television Tropes & Idioms
 

LOL! :)

Yes, I am a bit of an "anti-nihilist," but I don't see why that's necessarily a bad thing. Yes, life is objectively meaningless, but subjectively and intersubjectively it still has great meaning. Whether or not a god exists, the sun will still come up tomorrow, my family will still love me, I'll still find joy in my research, and I can still live life to the fullest.

I also don't see why objective meaninglessness must entail living a selfish, hedonistic, or ruthless life. If nothing matters, why not be kind? Kindness helps other people deal with the meaninglessness of existence by giving them a reason for living, and it helps you find purpose and joy as well.
 
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LOL! :)

Yes, I am a bit of an "anti-nihilist," but I don't see why that's necessarily a bad thing. Yes, life is objectively meaningless, but subjectively and intersubjectively, it still has great meaning. Whether or not a god exists, the sun will still come up tomorrow, my family will still love me, I'll still find joy in my research, and I can still live life to the fullest.

I also don't see why objective meaninglessness must entail living a selfish, hedonistic, or ruthless life. If nothing matters, why not be kind? Kindness helps other people deal with the meaninglessness of existence by giving them a reason for living, and it helps you find purpose and joy as well.

Since I consider myself to be an anti-nihilist as well, I don't see anything wrong with the philosophy of it either.
 
Prof. Provine's statements are nihilistic, and in my opinion, show the worst side of secularism and atheism. The fact is that most educated people who deny evolution do so for emotional reasons, often fueled by anti-humanistic rhetoric like Provine's. They don't like the consequences of a world without an interventionist creator, so they push the unpleasant thoughts from their heads to avoid dealing with the possible reality of a godless universe.

How's it "the worst?" Why would it be the worst? What does the "the worst" even mean? His "anti-humanistic rhetoric" is probably more logically driven than most drivel that spews from elsewhere.

Personally, although I am an atheist, I still find reasons to live, a foundation for ethics, and grounds for -- if not "free will" -- at least some kind of capacity for choice. My reason for living is to do as much good and spread as much kindness as possible.

You say you find a reason, a purpose, but have you ever read about Absurdism?

I feel ethics is largely subjective and aesthetic, but can still be rationally grounded on the desires and preferences of sentient beings (beings capable of subjective experience), including, but not limited to, humans. Basically, on this system, one should act in such a way as not to violate the basic, most deeply-held desires of sentient beings (for instance, the desire to live, pursue happiness), unless a compelling reason exists to do so.

Why should one act this way?

Side note: Provine teaches at Cornell, not Chicago.

Confused it. Thanks for the clarification. He got his BS from Chicago, I know, but I thought I'd read he'd gone back. Hmm.
 
I watched Expelled back when I was in college and, unfortunately, a young-earth creationist. Back then I thought it "confirmed my faith," now I can't even sit through it because of my frustration with its inaccuracies, distortions, and flat-out lies regarding science, scientists, and the scientific method. It's an absurd piece of anti-science fundamentalist propaganda.

What particular lies, distortions,etc..? Can you please be more specific?
 
LOL! :)

Yes, I am a bit of an "anti-nihilist," but I don't see why that's necessarily a bad thing. Yes, life is objectively meaningless, but subjectively and intersubjectively it still has great meaning. Whether or not a god exists, the sun will still come up tomorrow, my family will still love me, I'll still find joy in my research, and I can still live life to the fullest.

I also don't see why objective meaninglessness must entail living a selfish, hedonistic, or ruthless life. If nothing matters, why not be kind? Kindness helps other people deal with the meaninglessness of existence by giving them a reason for living, and it helps you find purpose and joy as well.

And that way, if there IS a god, you'll probably be ok with him.
 
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