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The God Fearing or the God-less.....

FluffyNinja said:
...would be diagnosed with a mental disorder?...
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Yes.

People thinking that some supernatural entity has a direct connection to their life, is just a mental disorder, which is what all religions are.

We can explain why religions are popular, but for people in our times to choose to stick to imaginary entities rather than reality, that's a sure thing indicator of neurosis and/or mental dysfunction or just lack of education.
 
Paralogic said:
Yes.

People thinking that some supernatural entity has a direct connection to their life, is just a mental disorder, which is what all religions are.

We can explain why religions are popular, but for people in our times to choose to stick to imaginary entities rather than reality, that's a sure thing indicator of neurosis and/or mental dysfunction or just lack of education.
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That's funny. So having faith and a hope that something greater than "this" exists, is a clinical mental disorder? Well, thank God the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association don't agree with you......otherwise the Social Security disability fund would have been drained dry ages ago. :lol:

Wait, I spoke too soon, perhaps I should go get in line for my disability check? :shrug:
 
FluffyNinja said:
That's funny. So having faith and a hope that something greater than "this" exists, is a clinical mental disorder? Well, thank God the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association don't agree with you......otherwise the Social Security disability fund would have been drained dry ages ago. :lol:

Wait, I spoke too soon, perhaps I should go get in line for my disability check? :shrug:
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See, that's not what he's saying. He's saying that otherwise rational people making decisions based on an unfounded assumption that magic is real demonstrates a disconnect from reality. You can hope whatever you want. I hope for a lot of things that aren't going to happen. But if I order my life because I think leprechauns are real and demand my obedience... that's insane. Deities are no different, regardless of how much the religious want to believe otherwise.
 
Paschendale said:
See, that's not what he's saying. He's saying that otherwise rational people making decisions based on an unfounded assumption that magic is real demonstrates a disconnect from reality. You can hope whatever you want. I hope for a lot of things that aren't going to happen. But if I order my life because I think leprechauns are real and demand my obedience... that's insane. Deities are no different, regardless of how much the religious want to believe otherwise.
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No, that was EXACTLY what he was saying. I even asked him TWICE......specifically. Go back and read the last few posts.

If you disagree.........simply prove that what I have faith in is not real.........it's just that simple. If I am clinically insane....as he implies.....then there must be some evidence that I am acting upon belief in something that does not exist..........either prove that......or case dismissed. :shrug:
 


Ya'll better be careful.....I can sense Fluffy getting ready to flow Like Water.
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If he goes Invisible on ya's
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best get out of dodge.
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"Oh".....and duck while you are at it.
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PS.....some Ninja's for ya Fluffy! <Head nod as a slight bow> lol
 
FluffyNinja said:
No, that was EXACTLY what he was saying. I even asked him TWICE......specifically. Go back and read the last few posts.

If you disagree.........simply prove that what I have faith in is not real.........it's just that simple. If I am clinically insane....as he implies.....then there must be some evidence that I am acting upon belief in something that does not exist..........either prove that......or case dismissed. :shrug:
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Normally we ask the crazy person to prove that the being we think is imaginary (since we've seen no proof of the being) really exists. Why is this case any different?
 
MMC said:
Who would people rather listen to, Those that fear God and are God-fearing People.....Or those that fear none and are the God-less? Freestyle Debate.....anything associated with the God-Fearing and or God-less can be used when it concerns those that listen or would or wouldn't.
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I don't have a comment on whether I'd trust god-fearing or godless people, I think good people will be good and bad people will be bad regardless of whether they believe in god, but I do know that if someone is trying to convince you of something, or trying to talk you in to something and they use a line similar to "come on man, I'm a good Christian man, I wouldn't lie to ya", it's a very safe bet they are lying and you should probably check your wallet to see if it's still in place.
 
Paralogic said:
Yes.

People thinking that some supernatural entity has a direct connection to their life, is just a mental disorder, which is what all religions are.

We can explain why religions are popular, but for people in our times to choose to stick to imaginary entities rather than reality, that's a sure thing indicator of neurosis and/or mental dysfunction or just lack of education.
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Have you seen or read about those whom have been possessed? Wherein they are studied at some University. Both medically and psychologically? That's with religious and alleged medical experts. Doesn't get anymore direct than that now does it?
 
roughdraft274 said:
I don't have a comment on whether I'd trust god-fearing or godless people, I think good people will be good and bad people will be bad regardless of whether they believe in god, but I do know that if someone is trying to convince you of something, or trying to talk you in to something and they use a line similar to "come on man, I'm a good Christian man, I wouldn't lie to ya", it's a very safe bet they are lying and you should probably check your wallet to see if it's still in place.
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What defines a good individual with that of bad one?
 
FluffyNinja said:
So, the majority of people on planet Earth are just simply.....mentally deranged.......and "in need of mental health"? :lol:
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I personally would say mentally deranged, in most cases. Certainly those that try to use their religious belief to try and get evolution out of schools, or creationism in schools, or similar, should be ridiculed for doing so. Likewise, those that say "God told me to" should be ridiculed.
 
Paralogic said:
... for people in our times to choose to stick to imaginary entities rather than reality, that's a sure thing indicator of neurosis and/or mental dysfunction or just lack of education.
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You seem to be awfully sure of your own ability to "stick to realty". But doesn't this ability begins with a leap of faith? - basically: You have to assume that (a) reality is real (not some kind of Matrix-style illusion), and (b) your senses and cognition are minimally adequate for dealing with it. You cannot prove either, you simply have to believe. Does it make you nuts?

While it is always pleasing to think that people you disagree with are simply mentally ill or morbidly ignorant, I much prefer to approach religion as a consistent atheist should: as a phenomenon that has to be studied, in order to be understood. I do not believe in gods because I do not have empirical evidence of their existence. Neither do I beleive that religion is a mental disorder - because of the lack of evidence supporting such notion. As a matter of fact, I have seen enough intelligent, educated, sane, and deeply religious people to suspect that it is nothing of the sort.
 
MMC said:
Have you seen or read about those whom have been possessed? Wherein they are studied at some University. Both medically and psychologically? That's with religious and alleged medical experts. Doesn't get anymore direct than that now does it?
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Oh, you mean mental disorders like dissociate identity disorder?
 
afr0byte said:
Oh, you mean mental disorders like dissociate identity disorder?
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Viewer Discretion NFSW.....

Not quite.....not when it comes to speaking ancient dialects that don't exist anymore. Languages they would have no knowledge of, nor physical transformation with the body.





In this type of case perhaps neither would be applicable.
 
afr0byte said:
Normally we ask the crazy person to prove that the being we think is imaginary (since we've seen no proof of the being) really exists. Why is this case any different?
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A hallucinating psychosis sufferer sees or hears specific things that are demonstrably not there. The connection religious people seek or claim to have is difficult to disprove - if only because it is rarey described in concrete terms.

When someone tells me that he experiences something I do not experience, should I assume that he is either lying or hallucinating? I would say, no. I should make a note of his claim, just as I would note any self-reported state if I were running a psychological experiment - and I do not have enough data to begin theorzing about what the heck it is, happening in his mind.
 
MMC said:
Who would people rather listen to, Those that fear God and are God-fearing People.....Or those that fear none and are the God-less? Freestyle Debate.....anything associated with the God-Fearing and or God-less can be used when it concerns those that listen or would or wouldn't.
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Being agnostic (for the most part, a few other leanings mixed in there) I consider myself open minded and will listen and discuss religion with just about anybody who is not rabid.

If somone chooses to live in 'fear' of punishment for not living up to the rules of a man-interpreted Bible, then they can easily be led astray while thinking they are protecting themselves from the wrath/punishment of that entity.

I choose not to live in 'fear' of anyone or anything, Deity or not, for that gives control over me to someone else. I know my choices, they don't need to be directed by somone/thing else.
 
MMC said:
Who would people rather listen to, Those that fear God and are God-fearing People.....Or those that fear none and are the God-less? Freestyle Debate.....anything associated with the God-Fearing and or God-less can be used when it concerns those that listen or would or wouldn't.
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I most prefer those who take some pains to avoid the sort of mutually exclusive dichotomies that lead away from understanding rather than towards it.
 
GottaGo said:
Being agnostic (for the most part, a few other leanings mixed in there) I consider myself open minded and will listen and discuss religion with just about anybody who is not rabid.

If somone chooses to live in 'fear' of punishment for not living up to the rules of a man-interpreted Bible, then they can easily be led astray while thinking they are protecting themselves from the wrath/punishment of that entity.

I choose not to live in 'fear' of anyone or anything, Deity or not, for that gives control over me to someone else. I know my choices, they don't need to be directed by somone/thing else.
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While many may not fear either.....in your choice to choose. Who would you rather be trained by, mentored over, etc etc.
 
MMC said:
Who would people rather listen to, Those that fear God and are God-fearing People.....Or those that fear none and are the God-less? Freestyle Debate.....anything associated with the God-Fearing and or God-less can be used when it concerns those that listen or would or wouldn't.
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For the god-fearing, it depends in whether or not they want to make public policy based on their own fear of a god.

Otherwise, it depends on how rational I think their policies are.
 
MMC said:
While many may not fear either.....in your choice to choose. Who would you rather be trained by, mentored over, etc etc.
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It would depend on the actual person. Their belief or not in a God is only germain to religious teachings. It should not have (repeat should not) on other subjects, or they are teaching their religion and not the other subject.
 
GottaGo said:
It would depend on the actual person. Their belief or not in a God is only germain to religious teachings. It should not have (repeat should not) on other subjects, or they are teaching their religion and not the other subject.
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Would the Godless have a conscience? If they have no concern for what they do. Wouldn't the god fearing be concerned about what they do? We are not talking within the extremes.

As most of us more than likely know both in our own relationships. Some who we may call friends. Yet would not condone or be part of what they do.
 
FluffyNinja said:
No, that was EXACTLY what he was saying. I even asked him TWICE......specifically. Go back and read the last few posts.

If you disagree.........simply prove that what I have faith in is not real.........it's just that simple. If I am clinically insane....as he implies.....then there must be some evidence that I am acting upon belief in something that does not exist..........either prove that......or case dismissed. :shrug:
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I would be happy to. Define the parameters of your belief and I will either provide evidence that disproves it, or, if you define in an extremely vague and nebulous way like some do, I will provide evidence that such a thing has no bearing on our lives. I have to add that caveat since people like to define god merely as "the creator of the universe" without any indication that such a being is moral, cares about our lives, even notices that we exist, or communicates with us.

Of course, this is still true.

afr0byte said:
Normally we ask the crazy person to prove that the being we think is imaginary (since we've seen no proof of the being) really exists. Why is this case any different?
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The only evidence I've ever seen you offer, Fluffy, is "I believe and you can't change my mind" and a few scholars that wrote a few passing mentions about some Jewish preachers (plural, not all the same guy) who died before any of those scholars were born, and were merely writing down the rumors they heard. They did no first hand research, examined no evidence, and had no actual witnesses of these people to interview. And what any of that has to do with deities is an element you didn't establish.

Actually, I have a problem with the very idea of "god-fearing". Isn't god supposed to be a loving parent? Why should we fear someone who loves us? I don't fear the people who love me. I know that their love will motivate them to treat me kindly and help me when I'm in need. Especially if god is a parent to us. The people one ought to fear the least are their parents. Unless their parents are abusive or violent drunks. Is that how people feel about god? If this is a being who literally created a world just so you could live on it, that demonstrates a lot of love, a lot of protection. There is no reason to fear that being. But then, the prominent characterizations of god are that of a petty, jealous, murderous bully. So I suppose god is essentially a violent alcoholic dad. And a deadbeat, too. So why would we worship such a person? We condemn men who do that. We blame them for crime rates and keeping people in poverty. Strange that god is worshiped for doing the same thing. Maybe religious people are like battered wives. They make excuses that the punishment is really their own fault and that of course he loves them and it's for their own good, and are too afraid to leave their abusive spouse.

So yeah, the whole notion of "god-fearing" and the idea that such a position is good confuses me greatly.
 
MMC said:
Who would people rather listen to, Those that fear God and are God-fearing People.....Or those that fear none and are the God-less? Freestyle Debate.....anything associated with the God-Fearing and or God-less can be used when it concerns those that listen or would or wouldn't.
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Suppose the "god-fearing" is a:

1) Muslim
2) Jew
3) Hindu
4) Jehovah's Witness
5) Mormon
6) Southern Baptist
7) Born-again Evangelical
8) Westboro Baptist
 
MMC said:
Would the Godless have a conscience? If they have no concern for what they do. Wouldn't the god fearing be concerned about what they do? We are not talking within the extremes.

As most of us more than likely know both in our own relationships. Some who we may call friends. Yet would not condone or be part of what they do.
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Do you think I have a conscience? (not being snarky)
Some would consider me to be 'Godless', even heathen by some.
 
Dragonfly said:
Suppose the "god-fearing" is a:

1) Muslim
2) Jew
3) Hindu
4) Jehovah's Witness
5) Mormon
6) Southern Baptist
7) Born-again Evangelical
8) Westboro Baptist
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More than likely they would be IMO.....now what about a Zen Priest? What about Buddhists? Scientologists and Garden Religions.
 
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