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Meaning or happiness

Dittohead not! said:
and even older than "groovy."
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lol

Not the expression itself. The fact that, prior to a couple of days ago, I hadn't seen or heard it in many years. And now twice in less than a week.
 
NoC_T said:
lol

Not the expression itself. The fact that, prior to a couple of days ago, I hadn't seen or heard it in many years. And now twice in less than a week.
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I thought it dated from the '30s and '40s, my parent's youth. Not so. It's even older than that:

The phrase was first recorded in the late 18th century, when it was used to mean 'something very small and insignificant'. Its current meaning dates from the 1920s, at which time a whole collection of American slang expressions were coined with the meaning 'an outstanding person or thing'. Examples included the flea's eyebrows, the canary's tusks, and one that still survives - the cat's whiskers. The switch in meaning for the bee's knees probably emerged because it was so similar in structure and pattern to these other phrases.
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NoC_T said:
I'm not quite confident that a woman would receive a description of the flea's eyebrows, warmly. :lol:
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How about the cat's pajamas?

that one is from my own youth, I think.
 
NoC_T said:
lol

Not the expression itself. The fact that, prior to a couple of days ago, I hadn't seen or heard it in many years. And now twice in less than a week.
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Now that is strange. Coincidence? :thinking
 
Evenstar said:
Which would you choose? a life of happiness or a life of meaning?
Consider this: to be truly happy, a man must live absolutely in the present. And with no thought of what's gone before, and no thought of what lies ahead. But if one chooses a life of meaning, one is condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future. A life of meaning, that is when one's life influences the universe around it for the greater good, cannot be obtained if one lives for himself in the present. But one must consider the past and the future if living for the good of others.

If choosing between happiness and meaning, what would you choose and why?
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Happiness is a warm gun ... :D
 
Evenstar said:
Which would you choose? a life of happiness or a life of meaning?
Consider this: to be truly happy, a man must live absolutely in the present. And with no thought of what's gone before, and no thought of what lies ahead. But if one chooses a life of meaning, one is condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future. A life of meaning, that is when one's life influences the universe around it for the greater good, cannot be obtained if one lives for himself in the present. But one must consider the past and the future if living for the good of others.

If choosing between happiness and meaning, what would you choose and why?
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There is no reason to believe that to be happy you must absolutely live in the present, you have to have an argument for that.
 
Evenstar said:
Living in the present requires not worrying about the past or about the future.
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Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily equate to happiness, perhaps the present sucks and the future will be better, perhaps the present sucks and the past was better.
 
Evenstar said:
Point is, if you're not worried about it, happiness is more likely.
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Again, you're assuming that the present is better than the past or future ... if the present is not good, you're not gonna be happy. Also ignoring the future or past will end up with much more Present moments that stink.
 
RGacky3 said:
Again, you're assuming that the present is better than the past or future ... if the present is not good, you're not gonna be happy. Also ignoring the future or past will end up with much more Present moments that stink.
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you seem to be missing the point. When people live in the present, they are not "victims" of their circumstances. Contentment comes from being free from the burdens of worry which causes unhappiness and discontentment. One may have poor circumstances, but without bitterness, it is easier to look for solutions and be successful.
 
Evenstar said:
you seem to be missing the point. When people live in the present, they are not "victims" of their circumstances. Contentment comes from being free from the burdens of worry which causes unhappiness and discontentment. One may have poor circumstances, but without bitterness, it is easier to look for solutions and be successful.
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I don't think that is true either, to look for solutions you necessarily have to be thinking about the future, and to think about the future you'd need to consider the past.

Also you may be free from the burdens of worry, but you won't be free from the suffering happening now.
 
RGacky3 said:
I don't think that is true either, to look for solutions you necessarily have to be thinking about the future, and to think about the future you'd need to consider the past.

Also you may be free from the burdens of worry, but you won't be free from the suffering happening now.
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Instead of looking for things in my statements to disagree with, perhaps define your view of happiness and meaning.
 
Evenstar said:
Instead of looking for things in my statements to disagree with, perhaps define your view of happiness and meaning.
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I don't know if I can do that, it's a HUGE philisophical project, my point was to say that your view was insufficient.

I would think though, that meaning and happiness in life are intertwined, I don't have a real argument for that, but one could point to the happiness that comes from accomplishment, and working toward a goal.

I'm not trying to be a dick, and I'm not saying that I have the answer, I'm just saying that you're answer has inconsistancies (it's a philisophical forum, so it's kind of the point).
 
RGacky3 said:
I don't know if I can do that, it's a HUGE philisophical project, my point was to say that your view was insufficient.

I would think though, that meaning and happiness in life are intertwined, I don't have a real argument for that, but one could point to the happiness that comes from accomplishment, and working toward a goal.

I'm not trying to be a dick, and I'm not saying that I have the answer, I'm just saying that you're answer has inconsistancies (it's a philisophical forum, so it's kind of the point).
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Inconsistencies are found in the subjectivity of the matters being discussed. If you think happiness and a life of meaning can be intertwined, please explain why. I'm not opposed to that view point. In fact, I'd like to learn how people can accomplish both at the same time.
 
Tigger said:
I could sit here for hours on end listing them. I don't have that much time, nor are you really interested in seeing any part of the list, so let's not waste each other's time. I will say this: The first and most important one is this....

"Right and Wrong are unmoving, unchanging concepts which there is no grey area between. What is Right is never Wrong and what is Wrong can never be Right."
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You could'nt list them, because all you'd be able to list is YOUR opinion, which is not more justifiable than anyone elses opinion, and given the fact that you've been unable to defend you're position before using any argument, logic, evidence or ANYTHING, no one is justified in believing you or taking anything you say seriously.

They would be as justified to listen to you as they would be justified to listen to someone who says "it is moral to eat playdoe."

Fate is a Universal Power of its own. It does not answer to any God or mortal. It never has and never will. The threads of our lives, which are spun and cut by the Fates at the moment of our birth cannot be changed by man or God. This does not mean that we don't have any choices in life; just that we are bound to experience certain things in our lives, no matter what decisions or choices we make, or how hard we try to resist some of these things occuring.
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And yet you cannot defend "fate" at all, this is a philisophical forum meaning you have to defend your positions rationally, which you cannot do, and have never done, because you have no defence.

Yes, Law and Order are a large part of the Universal Truths. What is also part of them is the ideal that a poisoned tree can never bear good fruit. Thusly, a corrupt and unethical government, which holds to no morals or values cannot, by definition, be capable of enforcing Law and Order or handing down Justice. Therefore, allowing oneself to be brought before such a government and exposing oneself to its false justice is not only foolish but Wrong in and of itself.
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Acording to you, which is as significant as me saying Anarchism is a universal truth, unless you can justify you're position rationally, or give anyone any reason to believe you're position over anyone elses, your position is meaningless and unjustified.
 
RGacky3 said:
You could'nt list them, because all you'd be able to list is YOUR opinion, which is not more justifiable than anyone elses opinion, and given the fact that you've been unable to defend you're position before using any argument, logic, evidence or ANYTHING, no one is justified in believing you or taking anything you say seriously.
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I'm not here to defend my position. I never have been and never will be. I do not feel any need to justify or defend my position to anyone other than myself. I never have and never will. You can choose to ignore, insult, or deride my beliefs in any way you like. Just realize that will not change them in the least. If people choose to accept what I have to say, fine. If not, equally fine. My life is not defined by whether people agree with me or not. Have a nice day.
 
Evenstar said:
Inconsistencies are found in the subjectivity of the matters being discussed. If you think happiness and a life of meaning can be intertwined, please explain why. I'm not opposed to that view point. In fact, I'd like to learn how people can accomplish both at the same time.
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When I say inconsistancy I mean logical fallacy, so it is a logical fallacy to say you must not focus on the future or past, but instead take you're current situation and better it.

But anyway let me try and take a stab at why happiness and a life of meaning can be intertwined.

One it depends what you mean by hapiness, I'd assume its a feeling of contentment and joy, a mix of the 2.
When you dedicate your life to some higher meaning, you have the feeling of accomplishment, you have the feeling of joy of creativity, you get rid of egoism (which I believe is a source of unhappiness, because selfishness will lead one to want to continue to aquire hedonistic pleasures for ones self, hedonistic in the technical term, which one will never achieve enough of, and will always be lacking), I think dedicating yourself to something like service to others, is a good way to achieve happiness, although happiness is not the goal.

When you are not focused on your own personal desires but instead focus on a higher project, you kind of attain happiness as a side, through the feeling of accomplishment, a feeling of union with others and a cause, and you're letting go of yourself, in the sense that you stop worrying about yourself, your own pleasures and isntead worry about the larger thing and more about what you try and do for the larger thing, having a good concience in a way, like "I did all I could for this thing which is bigger than me."

I take the view Jesus did "there is more happiness in giving than recieving," that entails a larger purpose and meaning.

I'm not going to claim that I have the answer (again), but I take the view that letting go of egoism, dedicating yourself to a higher meaning, and a life of love, brotherhood/sisterhood of somesort i.e. community and service is the way to happiness.

I think the number one mistake is thinking the way to happiness is to chase after the feeling of happiness directly, through things like pleasures or the such.
 
Tigger said:
I'm not here to defend my position. I never have been and never will be. I do not feel any need to justify or defend my position to anyone other than myself. I never have and never will. You can choose to ignore, insult, or deride my beliefs in any way you like. Just realize that will not change them in the least. If people choose to accept what I have to say, fine. If not, equally fine. My life is not defined by whether people agree with me or not. Have a nice day.
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Oh I don't believe you'll change them, because your not a rational person.

I'm just saying if you're not gonna defend anything you say, you might as well just not post anything at all, you're posts have as much value as just random letters since you don't justify or defend anything.
 
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