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Flattery—Is it Wrong?

Most people aren't that dumb.
 
NoC_T said:
Most people aren't that dumb.
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You'd be surprised how gullible some people can be.

People are vain. They LOVE when people take an interest in them. Flattery can't work without vanity.

You should study it in depth, because you'd be surprised how poisonous it can be.
 
Wake said:
You'd be surprised how gullible some people can be.
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Not so.

People are vain. They LOVE when people take an interest in them. Flattery can't work without vanity.

You should study it in depth, because you'd be surprised how poisonous it can be.
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lulz
 
NoC_T said:
Not so.


lulz
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It's true. Why do you think presidents get elected?

Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and other presidents have ALL used flattery successfully. There are variants of flattery. Upwards, downwards, single target, the masses, etc. Bill Clinton would, iirc, say that he "trusted that the wise citizens of America would make the right choice." when it came to the election. The book is very enlightening, and i really think you and everyone else should read it.
 
NoC_T said:
Most people aren't that dumb.
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I disagree. Most are.

Although I wouldn't call it "dumb". Don't most of us love to be admired -- at least as long as we believe we deserve it because of our merits? Isn't it flattering when you learn that someone (genuinely or not) admires some of the qualities you used to be proud of in yourself, or never dared to be proud of, because you used to believe you don't deserve it?

Of course there are bad liars, but there are good liars too.
 
Some flatterers are more clever than others. Some start by criticising you with something small, then laying it on a bit with something they genuinely feel. It's similar to higher-level thinking, by incorporating two seperate elements into one goal. Example: 30% critique, 70% flattery = flattered target.
 
Wake said:
If there is any motive attached to the flattery, it's disingenuous. If you're genuine, you can say something nice to someone else and have no desire to manipulate the person or gain from him.

A compliment isn't always flattery. A compliment doesn't always have a motive or selfish interest attached to it.

Flattery is always a means to manipulate someone. You can do this by either flattering them with something you genuinely feel about them, or some lie. Whether heartfelt or not, if it has a motive, it's flattery. If you flatter someone with something you truly like about them, it makes it even easier to manipulate that person, because there's less to have to remember. (That's included in the book.)
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Okay, so that's apparently because the word "flattery" in its definition requires bad motives.

I was thinking about statements that compliment other people in general. I'd say when the only motive is making that person more fond of you, while you genuinely return that feeling, there is nothing wrong with it.

The moment you want to make someone fond of you when you don't return that feeling, but want to manipulate him or her for other causes than mutual affection, these compliments are bad, because they contain an implicit lie.
 
German guy said:
Okay, so that's apparently because the word "flattery" in its definition requires bad motives.

I was thinking about statements that compliment other people in general. I'd say when the only motive is making that person more fond of you, while you genuinely return that feeling, there is nothing wrong with it.

The moment you want to make someone fond of you when you don't return that feeling, but want to manipulate him or her for other causes than mutual affection, these compliments are bad, because they contain an implicit lie.
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There are also those flatterers who actually like them.... but also flatter them for selfish/influential gain. To this kind of flatterer, there are two parts. Actually liking that person, and manipulating that liked person, too. It's a great way to be surrounded (protected) by friends who have eaten out of your hands.

They can definitely return the feeling, but there's more to it than that.
 
Wake said:
Flattery can never be honest and genuine. With genuine kindness there's no need for honest flattery. When you butter someone up, you do so for a reason.
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And sometimes that reason is simply to make someone feel good. Or (since I know you have someone on this board in mind) to help someone feel better about themselves. There can be no nefarious motive for flattery on a forum, in my opinion.
 
Wake said:
It's true. Why do you think presidents get elected?

Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and other presidents have ALL used flattery successfully. There are variants of flattery. Upwards, downwards, single target, the masses, etc. Bill Clinton would, iirc, say that he "trusted that the wise citizens of America would make the right choice." when it came to the election. The book is very enlightening, and i really think you and everyone else should read it.
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German guy said:
I disagree. Most are.

Although I wouldn't call it "dumb". Don't most of us love to be admired -- at least as long as we believe we deserve it because of our merits? Isn't it flattering when you learn that someone (genuinely or not) admires some of the qualities you used to be proud of in yourself, or never dared to be proud of, because you used to believe you don't deserve it?

Of course there are bad liars, but there are good liars too.
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There's no flattery. We push our own buttons.

Were it otherwise, we'd be hazardous to ourselves, and the prototypical honeyed tongue would have rendered us extinct, a long time ago. This is why we're equipped with ego.
 
MaggieD said:
And sometimes that reason is simply to make someone feel good. Or (since I know you have someone on this board in mind) to help someone feel better about themselves. There can be no nefarious motive for flattery on a forum, in my opinion.
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Bingo! :lol:
 
Wake said:
There are also those flatterers who actually like them.... but also flatter them for selfish/influential gain. To this kind of flatterer, there are two parts. Actually liking that person, and manipulating that liked person, too. It's a great way to be surrounded (protected) by friends who have eaten out of your hands.

They can definitely return the feeling, but there's more to it than that.
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Hm. Since you have read the book, I certainly can't argue against the arguments presented there, which are all probably well thought-out.

I just know that I like to give compliments to people I like. For no other reason than I like to see them being happy, to make them feel a little better. That's all reward I need when I like someone. Maybe an unconscious motivation is making them more fond of me too, I don't know, but even when that is the case, I don't feel guilty at all. After all, I don't plan on abusing their affection, if there is one.
 
Wake said:
Flatterers have a penchant of creating little gifts to "hook" the attention of others, in order to manipulate them. A little gift here, a little gift there, a compliment here, a larger compliment there, it's the trade of the flatterer. They can be discerned if you know what to look for.
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Why do I have the feeling you only "discern" flattery if it's directed somewhere other than you. ;)
 
X Factor said:
Why do I have the feeling you only "discern" flattery if it's directed somewhere other than you. ;)
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Aha,, is it flattery or truth and what's the difference?
 
Wake said:
They LOVE when people take an interest in them. Flattery can't work without vanity.
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Well, if anyone would know...:mrgreen:
 
grip said:
Aha,, is it flattery or truth and what's the difference?
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The answer, my friend, is obvious. If it's compliment directed at anyone other than you, it's flattery. If it's directed at you, then it's just deserved appreciation.
 
German guy said:
Hm. Since you have read the book, I certainly can't argue against the arguments presented there, which are all probably well thought-out.

I just know that I like to give compliments to people I like. For no other reason than I like to see them being happy, to make them feel a little better. That's all reward I need when I like someone. Maybe an unconscious motivation is making them more fond of me too, I don't know, but even when that is the case, I don't feel guilty at all. After all, I don't plan on abusing their affection, if there is one.
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Or unless the lady in question happens to be the proprietor of Thoracic Park.

In any case, a compliment would be neither 'excessive' nor 'insincere'. So it couldn't qualify.
 
X Factor said:
The answer, my friend, is obvious. If it's compliment directed at anyone other than you, it's flattery. If it's directed at you, then it's just deserved appreciation.
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I knew you'd catch that. :rofl
 
MaggieD said:
And sometimes that reason is simply to make someone feel good. Or (since I know you have someone on this board in mind) to help someone feel better about themselves. There can be no nefarious motive for flattery on a forum, in my opinion.
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This is the most brilliant post I've ever seen. :D
 
Wake said:
Wouldn't that simply be niceness or kindness?

Flattery can be honest.... but is always strategic. There's no strategy or motive involved when it comes to simply being nice, kind. It can't be flattery if there's no motive, no strategy, etc.
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I don't think it is always strategic. It depends on whether or not you want, or expect, some type of favor for it. If I tell someone that they look great today, it's because I mean it. It's not out of my need or want, but out of my observation, and my willingness to acknowledge it to the other person.
 
NoC_T said:
Or unless the lady in question happens to be the proprietor of Thoracic Park.

In any case, a compliment would be neither 'excessive' nor 'insincere'. So it couldn't qualify.
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What's "Thoracic Park"? You mean the part of the brain responsible for sexual interest?

My, you know a real lady will notice any base interests on the spot... ;)
 
German guy said:
What's "Thoracic Park"? You mean the part of the brain responsible for sexual interest?
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After a fashion. :lol:

My, you know a real lady will notice any base interests on the spot... ;)
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Whether she's receptive or not, being a question of how easily she can subvert the reasons not to. Once more, we see that this 'flattery' is of no greater import than a desire she already had. It's never implanted.
 
Another book to read is "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene. Hehehehe.
 
Flattery or compliments...I'm leery of either.

I feel I can give someone a compliment because I mean it. I've never been a fan of ass kissing, which is what I consider excessive flattery to be. I believe most people are not fooled by excessive or even insincere flattery /compliments.
 
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