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Antinatalism

Excellent post Smoke and Mirrors.

I personally wish I had never been born for more than one reason. First of all it drove my father over the edge and he became insane. In the early months of 1936 my mother came to him and said she was pregnant. This meant one thing, she would be dead in a few months. They had been told that having a baby would kill her. The religious nuts forbade abortion in those days. When it became time to cut her open and take me out her oldest sister was there to take me and give me to one of her daughters. My father was in a mental hospital. My mother fooled them all. She survived the Caesarian. My dad was never the same. A note about him. His mother's side of the family was unstable. Many ended up in the home for the very very nervous.

I have never considered life a great gift. Neither do I consider not existing a problem. I didn't exist before I was born and I don't remember it being particularly unpleasant.

I am a great fan of the bumper sticker that says: "If you can't feed em don't breed em." A lot of people today have several children just for the welfare checks. Several years ago I was watching a doc on education where a teacher asked the question: "What do you do when young girls tell you they think an education is a waste and all they have to do is have a few babies and live on welfare?" Another doc examined the subject and the moderator went into a certain neighborhood with a teen girl who did not subscribe to that philosophy. They talked to a group of teen girls they found on the street. When they discovered the young girl hadn't already had kids one said: "You isn't a mama?" She was surprised and maybe even shocked that the girl wasn't living on ADC checks. Yes, in some places it is that bad.

Then there are the women who don't particularly are about children in general but go completely gaga over babies. I have seen a few. There were several kids running around without much supervision while the mother was kitchy cooing over the baby like other women do when they think they must in order to not be thought weird.

We on earth have lots of problems but not enough people isn't one of them. If we are to stabilize the population we first need an economic system that is stable. Capitalism certainly isn't it.
 
Goshin said:
anti-natalism is, ultimately, a dead end for the human race.
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Er...yeah. That's sort of the point. No humans = no human suffering or deprivation.

Goshin said:
If you stick a fancy name on it and act like it is an "-ism" then you seem to be advocating that this is something everyone ought to embrace.
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Yeah. As an antinatalist I think that to bring unnecessary suffering into existence (or to defend others doing so) is a heinous ethical crime. Damn right I think that everyone should embrace this minimally ethical principle.

Goshin said:
If everyone embraced it, no more humans in short order.
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Again: No humans = no human suffering or deprivation.
 
thisperson12 said:
Er...yeah. That's sort of the point. No humans = no human suffering or deprivation.



Yeah. As an antinatalist I think that to bring unnecessary suffering into existence (or to defend others doing so) is a heinous ethical crime. Damn right I think that everyone should embrace this minimally ethical principle.



Again: No humans = no human suffering or deprivation.
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Do as you wish. I will do likewise.
 
lulz

And yet Antinatalists don't commit suicide.

This alone underscores the depth of their conviction.
 
Were Antinatalism a genuine expression of concern, we'd never know of it.
 
Goshin said:
Do as you wish. I will do likewise.
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Addendum: and my decendents will inherit a world in which your (generic your, as in antinatalists) decendents are absent... and they will surely find this a joyous thing.



This antinatalism business is just one of the most wretchedly idiotic notions I've ever had the displeasure to encounter. Nihilistic crap.
 
Oh noez! Life entails suffering!

Woe is me!
 
Antinatalism will never catch on with the majority of humanity, because it is a self-limiting philosophy.

Shakers were an anti-natalist religion. Guess what happened to them?

Although there were six thousand believers at the peak of the Shaker movement, there were only twelve Shaker communities left by 1920.[57] In the United States, there was one remaining active Shaker community, at Sabbathday Lake, Maine, which as of 2012 has only three members: Sister June Carpenter, Brother Arnold Hadd, and Sister Frances Carr.[8][58][59]
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It's also unlikely that the world population will continue to grow exponentially.

Some supporters of the antinatalist position assert that antinatalist policies could solve problems such as overpopulation, famine, and depletion of non-renewable resources.

Inclined to agree, hence I do think it's an interesting position.
 
Djoop said:
It's also unlikely that the world population will continue to grow exponentially.

Some supporters of the antinatalist position assert that antinatalist policies could solve problems such as overpopulation, famine, and depletion of non-renewable resources.

Inclined to agree, hence I do think it's an interesting position.
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Except for the fact, they want it to be a universal position, where *EVERYONE* dies childless and the entire species goes extinct. Yes, that would solve overpopulation, famine and resource depletion, it's mighty hard to do any of that when humanity is dead.
 
Cephus said:
Except for the fact, they want it to be a universal position, where *EVERYONE* dies childless and the entire species goes extinct. Yes, that would solve overpopulation, famine and resource depletion, it's mighty hard to do any of that when humanity is dead.
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:lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Oh, I did some reading on anti-natalism, and anti-natalists blogs. Some of these folks are WAY out there... claiming that everyone who has children hates children, that sort of nonsense, that being parented is abuse and slavery, etc.

WAY out there... :roll:
 
My thread, like the human race, just won't die. :2razz:
 
NoC_T said:
lulz

And yet Antinatalists don't commit suicide.

This alone underscores the depth of their conviction.
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A page later, I'm still chuckling at this.
 
Regardless of one's acceptance or disagreement with Schopenhauer's ideas and regardless of the OP's motivation for posting, it is absolutely fantastic to again see a discussion of the ideas of Western Philosophers, those upon whom all great thinking in the civilized Western World was based.

It has been over twenty years since the liberals and rabid feminists conquered all academia and proclaimed that there was NO VALUE to books written by "Dead White Guys" (Their term for the world's greatest thinkers). That event also resulted in professors encouraging their students to review all historically required reading for the slightest hint of racism or sexism so that those books could also be banned from all colleges. Even Mark Twain became an evil white male.

The result has been the demanded worship of nonsense, strange ideas and constant relentless focus upon the musings of hate, victimization and shallowness by unknown, uneducated minority writers, poems from the Eastern World, etc., etc., it was the death of reason in the United States, resulting in credence being given to such absolute self serving foolishness as Critical Theory. Students failed to learn the basics of Western civilization and this resulted in the alienation of reason that we see today, beloved by the loons who value infantilism and lack of intellect, value the shallow and emotional rather than deeper thought and reason. It became fashionable to discard the query "What do you think about this?" in favor of "How do you FEEL about this?" Everyone could then emotionally participate in the false discussion of nothingness.

This death of Western reason contributed much to the Third World colonization and destruction of the United States as well as the embracement and election of a president about whom absolutely nothing whatsoever was known, except that he was Non-Western and Non-white. It was for the emotional, uneducated wailing masses to worship, celebrity without resume.
 
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nota bene said:
A page later, I'm still chuckling at this.
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Lot of these wingnut philosophies are held by people who just don't act in accordance to their supposed beliefs. They come up with absurd excuses why they don't act the way their beliefs seem to insist they act. It's like the crazy solipsists who think they are the only ones that actually exist, yet stop their cars for pedestrians that they think aren't real and get online to talk to figments of their imagination.

These people are either crazy or stupid.
 
Cephus said:
Except for the fact, they want it to be a universal position, where *EVERYONE* dies childless and the entire species goes extinct. Yes, that would solve overpopulation, famine and resource depletion, it's mighty hard to do any of that when humanity is dead.
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TBH, I'm a bit disappointed that you, of all people, couldn't tell the difference between a philosophical position and an ideology. There can be all sorts of good reasons not to bring children into this world. I wouldn't even consider it if I were unable to feed the child.
 
One of my favorite antinatalist positions is up against the wall.
 
Djoop said:
TBH, I'm a bit disappointed that you, of all people, couldn't tell the difference between a philosophical position and an ideology. There can be all sorts of good reasons not to bring children into this world. I wouldn't even consider it if I were unable to feed the child.
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Nor should you. You are more than welcome to decide whether to breed or not. However, the very idea behind antinatalism is just absurd, especially when you consider the fact that the movement's ultimate goal is human extinction. There isn't any good reason whatsoever for wanting that.
 
Cephus said:
Nor should you. You are more than welcome to decide whether to breed or not. However, the very idea behind antinatalism is just absurd, especially when you consider the fact that the movement's ultimate goal is human extinction. There isn't any good reason whatsoever for wanting that.
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That movement wont be very popular and seems rather self-limiting. However, I don't see how that makes 'the very idea behind antinatalism absurd'. Which is about the reduction of the human population, considering our impact on the environment, the depletion of our resources and our inability to provide millions of children basic human needs.
 
Djoop said:
That movement wont be very popular and seems rather self-limiting. However, I don't see how that makes 'the very idea behind antinatalism absurd'. Which is about the reduction of the human population, considering our impact on the environment, the depletion of our resources and our inability to provide millions of children basic human needs.
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Except the idea behind the antinatalism movement isn't "some people should not breed to allow a reduction in human population", it's "nobody should ever breed again so that humanity can go extinct in this generation." That's why the idea behind the antinatalism movement is absurd on it's face.
 
paris said:
One of my favorite antinatalist positions is up against the wall.
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And it doesn't necessarily involve a crucifix.
 
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