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Gross ignorance, functional idiocy and social responsibility

NWRatCon

NWRatCon

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I post here and on other forums on a regular basis. On numerous topics I frequently run into people who post outlandish things completely devoid of connections to recognizable facts or logical structure. I always start with the presumption that they simply don't know what they're talking about. If I happen to be familiar with the subject, I try to educate them. Some take it with good grace, and we move on.

Others, well, let's say they lack grace and tact. Some are just stubborn and refuse to acknowledge error. That's a "style" we're all used to by now. Others persist in expounding their position and expanding the exposure of their ignorance by making further outlandish statements. These are the ones I describe as "functional idiots". I am aware that the term, with its history, can be deemed offensive, and actually describing them as idiots will incur the wrath of the Mod corps, with good reason. But that's not my intent here. "Idiocy" is (psychology) "the state or condition of being an idiot; the quality of having an intelligence level far below average." The "functional" part is to express volition. That is, they (probably) have sufficient intelligence to understand the issue, but refuse to accept information that doesn't jibe with their notions. Anti-vaxxers fit into this category, as do adherents to various cults and conspiracy theories.

My question, and the purpose of this thread, is how to address this situation in a socially acceptable way. The human reaction is frustration, which typically leads to increasingly virulent back and forth postings, leading nowhere. On the other hand, is there not social responsibility (especially within our particular community) to correct misstatements of fact, particularly deliberate misstatements? Are there acceptable and effective ways to avoid the inevitable tit-for-tat escalation, and still convey the socially responsible corrections to the record. Genuine responses are welcome. This is a real dilemma for the social conscious and educated amongst us.
 
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NWRatCon said:
I post here and on other forums on a regular basis. On numerous topics I frequently run into people who post outlandish things completely devoid of connections to recognizable facts or logical structure. I always start with the presumption that they simply don't know what they're talking about. If I happen to be familiar with the subject, I try to educate them. Some take it with good grace, and we move on.

Others, well, let's say they lack grace and tact. Some are just stubborn and refuse to acknowledge error. That's a "style" we're all used to by now. Others persist in expounding their position and expanding the exposure of their ignorance by making further outlandish statements. These are the ones I describe as "functional idiots". I am aware that the term, with its history, can be deemed offensive, and actually describing them as idiots will incur the wrath of the Mod corps, with good reason. But that's not my intent here. "Idiocy" is (psychology) "the state or condition of being an idiot; the quality of having an intelligence level far below average." The "functional" part is to express volition. That is, they (probably) have sufficient intelligence to understand the issue, but refuse to accept information that doesn't jibe with their notions. Anti-vaxxers fit into this category, as do adherents to various cults and conspiracy theories.

My question, and the purpose of this thread, is how to address this situation in a socially acceptable way. The human reaction is frustration, which typically leads to increasingly virulent back and forth postings, leading nowhere. On the other hand, is there not social responsibility (especially within our particular community) to correct misstatements of fact, particularly deliberate misstatements? Are there acceptable and effective ways to avoid the inevitable tit-for-tat escalation, and still convey the socially responsible corrections to the record. Genuine responses are welcome. This is a real dilemma for the social conscious and educated amongst us.
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When you get to the point where either you or the other person resort to "increasingly virulent back and forth postings", I suggest you follow my example.

You have my permission to use my sig.
 
I try to show/offer the known facts.

Those that continuously pretend those facts are other-wise, it's best to ignore I think. SOME enjoy seeing what kind of reactions they can get by endlessly posting nonsense.

That, or they ARE the idiot type unable to fathom logical analysis & facts.

In both cases, what can one gain by carrying on endlessly with them ?? Nothing but pointless anger & frustration.
 
On several occasions, I have referred to such people as being willfully ignorant. It is my opinion based on observation and experience that there are people who do not want facts and don't care to know them. An invitation to review factual information is not of interest to them. It is often likely that they do not have the deductive reasoning skills to determine and interpret facts. While some people are simply incapable I suspect the majority are intellectually lazy. I've come to the conclusion that such people are not going to change their minds even when faced with incontrovertible facts.
 
Many are just trolls.

They don't come here to inform themselves, but only to further a political agenda.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Many are just trolls.

They don't come here to inform themselves, but only to further a political agenda.
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Or they are here to amuse themselves.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Many are just trolls.

They don't come here to inform themselves, but only to further a political agenda.
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Bingo! :thumbs:

Let's be honest about this ... even as they won't ...
 
Most people use subjective logic. It is nobody's job to "educate" another poster and it is invariably a fool's errand.
 
And yet, the site is called, "debate politics", which implies an exchange. I acknowledge that in some cases it is beyond "willful ignorance", and into the realm of spiteful ignorance. As a socially responsible person, though, I think it is imperative to create a cogent record of operative facts. I admit I have a bias. I spent many years as an educator and as a mentor. That gives me a propensity to want to educate, if not the particular poster, then at least the community. If one participates in a thread, the implication is a willingness to engage, and not merely disrupt.
 
NWRatCon said:
I post here and on other forums on a regular basis. On numerous topics I frequently run into people who post outlandish things completely devoid of connections to recognizable facts or logical structure. I always start with the presumption that they simply don't know what they're talking about. If I happen to be familiar with the subject, I try to educate them. Some take it with good grace, and we move on.

Others, well, let's say they lack grace and tact. Some are just stubborn and refuse to acknowledge error. That's a "style" we're all used to by now. Others persist in expounding their position and expanding the exposure of their ignorance by making further outlandish statements. These are the ones I describe as "functional idiots". I am aware that the term, with its history, can be deemed offensive, and actually describing them as idiots will incur the wrath of the Mod corps, with good reason. But that's not my intent here. "Idiocy" is (psychology) "the state or condition of being an idiot; the quality of having an intelligence level far below average." The "functional" part is to express volition. That is, they (probably) have sufficient intelligence to understand the issue, but refuse to accept information that doesn't jibe with their notions. Anti-vaxxers fit into this category, as do adherents to various cults and conspiracy theories.

My question, and the purpose of this thread, is how to address this situation in a socially acceptable way. The human reaction is frustration, which typically leads to increasingly virulent back and forth postings, leading nowhere. On the other hand, is there not social responsibility (especially within our particular community) to correct misstatements of fact, particularly deliberate misstatements? Are there acceptable and effective ways to avoid the inevitable tit-for-tat escalation, and still convey the socially responsible corrections to the record. Genuine responses are welcome. This is a real dilemma for the social conscious and educated amongst us.
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Great post, great points. There are people like this on both sides of politics, on all sides of religion, and in every other conceivable subject or belief system. It can be attributed to 2 causes. The first is, as you pointed out, related to intelligence, or lack thereof. That encompasses a lack of wisdom, common sense, or an inability to think for oneself, and a need to be told how and what to think(or just intellectual laziness). Theres an inability to detect OBVIOUS double standards, contradictions, hypocrisy, etc. Also, these folks are typically devoid of self awareness.

The 2nd cause is related to stubborness, blind faith, religious, political or ideological devotion. You see it among the ultra orthodox religious folks, who simply refuse to accept OBVIOUS scientific realities, in favor of religious dogma. But political ideologues are just as extreme in their devotion to political ideology. These people will "choose" to believe in falsehoods, and will willingly ignore facts, in favor of ideological doctrine that makes them "feel" better.
 
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Mycroft said:
When you get to the point where either you or the other person resort to "increasingly virulent back and forth postings", I suggest you follow my example.

You have my permission to use my sig.
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I have just read your sig:

"TANSTAAFL
When I "dismiss" you it only means that I have determined that further discussion is useless or counter-productive. Don't take it personally. Go ahead and have your last word...and move on."

That is OK! :)
 
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