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Are Stereotypes Always Bad?

Redneck....

I see that as being more the case with "rednecks" themselves; in other words, rural, working-class white folks using the term affectionately, maybe as a way of defusing it? I bet those people would feel differently about an affluent, urban guy using it.

Similar, perhaps, to African Americans using the "N"-word?
 
I ask because you mentioned "Redskins". No question that at one point in time it was a slur to Native Americans. Yet to 98 percent of people alive now, it's meant one thing only: the name of Washington's NFL football team.

In that context, what does it mean? What does the symbol encapsulate for the team? Warrior spirit. Fierce battle. Native Americans are being used to symbolize that. It's not so different than a math team employing Confucius. It's stereotyping, "positive" stereotyping and, in that, marginalizing those not included in that stereotype. We're asked to ignore for a moment the peace makers, the artists, the statesmen of Native Americans. At their cost and for our entertainment.
 
In that context, what does it mean? What does the symbol encapsulate for the team? Warrior spirit. Fierce battle. Native Americans are being used to symbolize that. It's not so different than a math team employing Confucius. It's stereotyping, "positive" stereotyping and, in that, marginalizing those not included in that stereotype. We're asked to ignore for a moment the peace makers, the artists, the statesmen of Native Americans. At their cost and for our entertainment.

Are you saying only Native Americans are capable of projecting a warrior spirit, engaging in fierce battle, and so on? Lions, Patriots, Eagles and others project similar images.

That may be your interpretation of what the word encapsulates, and it may have been the original intention back in 1932 when the team was founded. But I seriously doubt more than a very, very small percentage of modern-day Redskins fans have that in mind, or barely even notice the Native American symbolism.

And then there's this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

Kind of reminds me of the Ralph Northam controversy last year when Virginia's governor was revealed to have appeared in blackface in college. African American voters mostly DIDN'T want him to resign. Mostly white liberals did. Could be the same here.
 
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Depends. Queer has been reappropriated.

Which bothers me, I must admit. Called me old-fashioned, but when I was in junior high eons ago, "queer" was intended as the ultimate insult directed to someone who was gay, or who we thought was gay.

It also bothers me that "bitch" is often today used by teenage girls and young women almost as a term of endearment.

Meanings of words do naturally change over the course of years, but this business of taking an obvious pejorative or insult and turning it into something positive just reeks of self-loathing.
 
Which bothers me, I must admit. Called me old-fashioned, but when I was in junior high eons ago, "queer" was intended as the ultimate insult directed to someone who was gay, or who we thought was gay.

It also bothers me that "bitch" is often today used by teenage girls and young women almost as a term of endearment.

Meanings of words do naturally change over the course of years, but this business of taking an obvious pejorative or insult and turning it into something positive just reeks of self-loathing.

It bothers me when people say mah n****ah but i know the context in which they use it so i know what you mean. Im usually like “just let it die”
 
Human beings are wet-wired to see patterns by the evolutionary journey we have travelled over millions of years. Stereotyping is just the act of pattern recognition at work in social circumstances. Whether that is bad or not is both case-dependant and up to your personal morality. Therefore a society wide ethos on stereotyping will be very hard to reach. Some stereotypes are useful and useful is good while others are prejudicial and lead to bigotry or worse and are thus bad. So the jury remains out.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
It bothers me when people say mah n****ah but i know the context in which they use it so i know what you mean. Im usually like “just let it die”

The "N"-word is a special case, though. Its use among African Americans is drastically different, and has been going all the way back to the days of slavery.

Still, I have to admit that it bothers me that both of my kids were first exposed to it, not from some white racist, but black rap singers some 25 years ago.
 
Human beings are wet-wired to see patterns by the evolutionary journey we have travelled over millions of years. Stereotyping is just the act of pattern recognition at work in social circumstances. Whether that is bad or not is both case-dependant and up to your personal morality. Therefore a society wide ethos on stereotyping will be very hard to reach. Some stereotypes are useful and useful is good while others are prejudicial and lead to bigotry or worse and are thus bad. So the jury remains out.


Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I'm fascinated as to what degree stereotypes apply to gay people. Anecdotally, it sure seems that a significant number of gays & lesbians do exhibit characteristics often stereotypically applied to them, having to do with mannerisms and dress. Is this inborn or a result of conscious choices or learned behavior?

And then there's the whole subject of so-called "gay-dar". The notion that two gay people in a crowded room will somehow be able to identify each other as gay. Is that about stereotyping.....or is there some kind of extra-sensory perception going on? And does gaydar only involve gay people?
 
Wow!

I have never had the guts to start a thread on this topic.

I think that a "stereotype" is just a generalization. We all are smart to know that a generalization is just that: In general, Martians, let's say, prefer strawberry ice cream. Of course, some Martians do not.

I strongly believe in generalizations.

Of course, I will mention only positive generalizations.

Asians in the United States, for example, commit very few crimes of violence. That is true.
Jewish young people are very good students in secondary school and in college. That is true.

I believe forums like these are the perfect venue for starting threads on controversial topics. But I know from long experience to expecting being attacked by those who presume to know my bias, when in fact I'm only asking questions.
 
I'm fascinated as to what degree stereotypes apply to gay people. Anecdotally, it sure seems that a significant number of gays & lesbians do exhibit characteristics often stereotypically applied to them, having to do with mannerisms and dress. Is this inborn or a result of conscious choices or learned behavior?

And then there's the whole subject of so-called "gay-dar". The notion that two gay people in a crowded room will somehow be able to identify each other as gay. Is that about stereotyping.....or is there some kind of extra-sensory perception going on? And does gaydar only involve gay people?

Jamesrodom:

Stereotypes certainly exist from outside the LGBTQ communities and some stereotypes are adopted and played up by members in those communities. The LGBTQ communities don't exist in a vacuum and the daily interactions with the wider heterosexual community both delivers and produces stereotypes in both groups. As to the question of nature vs. nurture in matters of sexual politics, you're probably walking into a minefield there. I for one have grown attached to my feet and will not tread there willingly. There are so many political and cultural interests determined to advance their causes that they are clouding the discussion of this issue and thus make detached objectivity in the discussion of nature vs. nurture issues very difficult and often such discussions descend into bickering and acrimony.

On the topic of gay-dar, you are talking to a blind moron here. I routinely do not spot people as gay or any other alternative until someone points it out to me or the person themself announces it. That myopia is due to both cluelessness and utter indifference on my part. I could not care less if someone wants to live their life differently from me. As long as their choices do no harm to others, it's none of my business whom they rub up against in moments of passion or whom they want to share their intimate lives with.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Jamesrodom:

Stereotypes certainly exist from outside the LGBTQ communities and some stereotypes are adopted and played up by members in those communities. The LGBTQ communities don't exist in a vacuum and the daily interactions with the wider heterosexual community both delivers and produces stereotypes in both groups. As to the question of nature vs. nurture in matters of sexual politics, you're probably walking into a minefield there. I for one have grown attached to my feet and will not tread there willingly. There are so many political and cultural interests determined to advance their causes that they are clouding the discussion of this issue and thus make detached objectivity in the discussion of nature vs. nurture issues very difficult and often such discussions descend into bickering and acrimony.

On the topic of gay-dar, you are talking to a blind moron here. I routinely do not spot people as gay or any other alternative until someone points it out to me or the person themself announces it. That myopia is due to both cluelessness and utter indifference on my part. I could not care less if someone wants to live their life differently from me. As long as their choices do no harm to others, it's none of my business whom they rub up against in moments of passion or whom they want to share their intimate lives with.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

My only response is that I've never avoided "minefields". It's true that many people are hypersensitive and overreact, making rational discussion difficult if not impossible, but that's no reason not to at least make the effort.
 
I'm fascinated as to what degree stereotypes apply to gay people. Anecdotally, it sure seems that a significant number of gays & lesbians do exhibit characteristics often stereotypically applied to them, having to do with mannerisms and dress. Is this inborn or a result of conscious choices or learned behavior?

I'd say that's not necessarily true. There are definitely gay people who'd fit more into the "stereotype" than others, but there's also a bunch of gay people that definitely wouldn't fit into those parameters. There's plenty of people you wouldn't know they were gay unless you asked them. There's also people who might exhibit stereotypical behavior that might be associated with homosexuality, who aren't gay at all. I'm gay myself, but I don't exactly exhibit all of the stereotypes of what some people assume all lesbians are like. It's not an overty obvious thing. Though, I am certainly a tomboy, but I like my makeup and stuff, too.
 
I'd say that's not necessarily true. There are definitely gay people who'd fit more into the "stereotype" than others, but there's also a bunch of gay people that definitely wouldn't fit into those parameters. There's plenty of people you wouldn't know they were gay unless you asked them. There's also people who might exhibit stereotypical behavior that might be associated with homosexuality, who aren't gay at all. I'm gay myself, but I don't exactly exhibit all of the stereotypes of what some people assume all lesbians are like. It's not an overty obvious thing. Though, I am certainly a tomboy, but I like my makeup and stuff, too.

I didn't realize the word "tomboy" was even in use anymore!
 
Human beings are wet-wired to see patterns by the evolutionary journey we have travelled over millions of years. Stereotyping is just the act of pattern recognition at work in social circumstances. Whether that is bad or not is both case-dependant and up to your personal morality. Therefore a society wide ethos on stereotyping will be very hard to reach. Some stereotypes are useful and useful is good while others are prejudicial and lead to bigotry or worse and are thus bad. So the jury remains out.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I agree with your summary above Evilroddy and would add to it only that the historical element of the long term interactions between diffeent groups of people in any geographical region in an ever changing world play a huge role in how these stereotypes are shaped and become entrenched.

I remember reading a great book called " The Myth Of The Lazy Native " written by Syed Hussein Alatas. It dealt with the relations of people of east Asia , Java/ Malaysia etc during the European colonial era and how the demands of colonialism/capitalism and local cultures clashed forging damning views leading to long standing stereotyping.

The book set me thinking at the time more about the origins of stereotyping and the dynamics at work that shaped them , how they endured and what purpose they served. It was a liberating experience reading that book and it changed my perceptions/thinking markedly at the time leaving me with a legacy I will forever be grateful for the author for showing me.

The article below is based on another of his books called " Raffles, 1781-1826: schemer or reformer?. " and deals with how the Malay contingent of the Singaporean community have fared since the days of Raffles-esque thinking and the policies and decision making since have further shaped the stereotypical views held by the different peoples within that community. It set before us the " Malay Problem " which is an interesting read with much food for thought imo

Malays who are a minority in Singapore poses a strong challenge to the Singapore Government. It is a fact that in the development of Singapore history, Malays are relatively backward in the economic, social and political spheres. As an under-privileged lot in a country dominated by the majority Chinese who are aggressive in the economic field and who are agile and resilient in the modernization process, the presence of Malays poses complex challenges and instil tension in inter-racial relations (Betts, 1975). This phenomenon has been rightly or wrongly called the ‘Malay Problem.’

Essay: The Malay Problem – The Myth of the Lazy Native Re-Visited – kitaab

and BTW The Myth of the Lazy Native: Amazon.co.uk: Syed Hussein Alatas: 9780415604086: Books
 
My only response is that I've never avoided "minefields". It's true that many people are hypersensitive and overreact, making rational discussion difficult if not impossible, but that's no reason not to at least make the effort.

Jamesrodom:

Well then I will see if I can organise a stretcher party for you when the covering fire over the minefield slackens in order to fetch you if necessary. In the mean time I suggest a spirited reading of the St. Crispin's Day speech from Shakespeare's Henry V. They will tell stories of you and your bravery. So hero or forlorn hope, God's speed and grace to you sir!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Has it occurred to you that jokes made by comedians containing stereotypes get laughs, not because they're true, but because they make people nervous?

No, because normal people don’t feel nervous about jokes.

And the truth is, leftist ideolouges stereotype people all the time.

It’s like years ago during a wave of Central American migration to the US through Mexico, and vox sent a reporter down there to cover it and he was in shock that Mexican citizens were mocking the Central Americans and calling their illegal presence in Mexico an “invasion” and that they wanted a wall on Mexico’s southern border.

The libs just couldn’t imagine Mexicans would be nationalistic and want strong borders like those knuckle dragging racist white republicans.
 
No, because normal people don’t feel nervous about jokes.

And the truth is, leftist ideolouges stereotype people all the time.

It’s like years ago during a wave of Central American migration to the US through Mexico, and vox sent a reporter down there to cover it and he was in shock that Mexican citizens were mocking the Central Americans and calling their illegal presence in Mexico an “invasion” and that they wanted a wall on Mexico’s southern border.

The libs just couldn’t imagine Mexicans would be nationalistic and want strong borders like those knuckle dragging racist white republicans.

Whatever......you just can't resist the urge to exploit every conceivable opportunity to mindlessly rant in semi-coherent fashion about whatever gets your panties in a twist.

But to everyone else: the point is simply that laughter isn't always a reflection of finding something funny.
 
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