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Is Not Having Children for Personal Reasons Selfish?

Over the past few years I have seen a lot of articles and heard people saying that (usually aiming at millennials) choosing to not have children either because they don't want to or can't afford to or a combination of both is selfish. I remember one article a few months ago just ripping into millennials who choose to not have kids because they don't want to impact their quality of life or cannot afford the lifestyle they want with kids because apparently all you have to do is sacrifice everything and if you don't it is very selfish. It is becoming a choice: you can have a house, you can retire, or you can have children, pick two or sometimes just one depending on cost of living and forget about the others.

I don't see anything selfish in not having children, how is it selfish for someone to not want to give their parents grandchildren or because they cannot give their children the life they want? Certainly it is the would-be grandparents being selfish in that situation. Older generations seem to think that money and your lifestyle should not be a factor in determining whether or not to have children, just because they decided to pick different things from the pick two does not mean younger generations have to choose the same.

So what do you think? Do younger generations owe their parents grandchildren? Is it selfish to want a certain lifestyle for yourself and potential children?

It's selfish because we need people like you having kids rather than those ignorant ones who breed like rabbits then let them run wild.

:2razz: Just kidding. Not having kids is a personal choice that I wish more people were more self aware to make. Raising kids is hard and you don't owe anybody anything when it comes to your choice about having one.
 
Over the past few years I have seen a lot of articles and heard people saying that (usually aiming at millennials) choosing to not have children either because they don't want to or can't afford to or a combination of both is selfish. I remember one article a few months ago just ripping into millennials who choose to not have kids because they don't want to impact their quality of life or cannot afford the lifestyle they want with kids because apparently all you have to do is sacrifice everything and if you don't it is very selfish. It is becoming a choice: you can have a house, you can retire, or you can have children, pick two or sometimes just one depending on cost of living and forget about the others.

Could you share some of these articles?


Personally, on the condition that I'm gay, I exempt myself from having a strong opinion any which way. Which actually is quite nice. It's incredible how much time, energy and thought straight people put into "large" social questions like this. Being gay is like a "get out of jail free" card in which you given then gift of being able to chose almost any lifestyle - kids, no kids - and it doesn't matter one lick, because the only commentary on your lifestyle it is from homophobic/religious nutjobs.
 
1. Anyone who's paid taxes in the last few decades has paid into SS and other benefits. It's a pool and they're all entitled to a share - hence the 'dirty' word entitlements.

2. There is only a finite amount of money in the economy (and the world)

3. Not every investment is wise or lucky enough to reap 'millions'. Nor is it even mathematically possible, see point 2.

4. Lursa knows what he's paid.

The personal refrain against Lursa that somehow he screwed up by not becoming a millionaire is just plain insulting. Someone who'd worked, paid taxes, reaped benefits and yes, experienced failure at least once in their life, would understand this. That's what adults do.

Perhaps he should have 'invested' in a great scheme like Trump University.

Thanks, and btw, Lursa is a woman ;)
 
Over the past few years I have seen a lot of articles and heard people saying that (usually aiming at millennials) choosing to not have children either because they don't want to or can't afford to or a combination of both is selfish. I remember one article a few months ago just ripping into millennials who choose to not have kids because they don't want to impact their quality of life or cannot afford the lifestyle they want with kids because apparently all you have to do is sacrifice everything and if you don't it is very selfish. It is becoming a choice: you can have a house, you can retire, or you can have children, pick two or sometimes just one depending on cost of living and forget about the others.

I don't see anything selfish in not having children, how is it selfish for someone to not want to give their parents grandchildren or because they cannot give their children the life they want? Certainly it is the would-be grandparents being selfish in that situation. Older generations seem to think that money and your lifestyle should not be a factor in determining whether or not to have children, just because they decided to pick different things from the pick two does not mean younger generations have to choose the same.

So what do you think? Do younger generations owe their parents grandchildren? Is it selfish to want a certain lifestyle for yourself and potential children?

Yes. It is literally a selfish decision. Until we reach the singularity of a fully-automated society in which all of our needs can be fulfilled by self-maintained robots, we will need a new generation of children able to work and produce in order to sustain the older generation. That is, unless we are willing and able to accept a precipitous decline in living standards both for the older generation AND the newer generation. But this raises the question: Do you owe it to society and future generations to have children in order to supply the future labor force who will be needed to maintain living standards within your particular society? Only you can answer that.
 
Could you share some of these articles?


Personally, on the condition that I'm gay, I exempt myself from having a strong opinion any which way. Which actually is quite nice. It's incredible how much time, energy and thought straight people put into "large" social questions like this. Being gay is like a "get out of jail free" card in which you given then gift of being able to chose almost any lifestyle - kids, no kids - and it doesn't matter one lick, because the only commentary on your lifestyle it is from homophobic/religious nutjobs.

Not so fast, brothern. When I get my way, gay and Lesbian couples will be forced to adopt children. There will be no escape. :mrgreen:
 
Not so fast, brothern. When I get my way, gay and Lesbian couples will be forced to adopt children. There will be no escape. :mrgreen:

Not all couples are suitable to be parents (I will include heterosexual couples there too). It has to be best for the children.
 
"Be fruitful and multiply" you sinning malcontents.
 
Over the past few years I have seen a lot of articles and heard people saying that (usually aiming at millennials) choosing to not have children either because they don't want to or can't afford to or a combination of both is selfish. I remember one article a few months ago just ripping into millennials who choose to not have kids because they don't want to impact their quality of life or cannot afford the lifestyle they want with kids because apparently all you have to do is sacrifice everything and if you don't it is very selfish. It is becoming a choice: you can have a house, you can retire, or you can have children, pick two or sometimes just one depending on cost of living and forget about the others.

I don't see anything selfish in not having children, how is it selfish for someone to not want to give their parents grandchildren or because they cannot give their children the life they want? Certainly it is the would-be grandparents being selfish in that situation. Older generations seem to think that money and your lifestyle should not be a factor in determining whether or not to have children, just because they decided to pick different things from the pick two does not mean younger generations have to choose the same.

So what do you think? Do younger generations owe their parents grandchildren? Is it selfish to want a certain lifestyle for yourself and potential children?

7 million people on the planet. People can be selfish if they want to be.

Having kids could also be seen as selfish.
 
7 million people on the planet. People can be selfish if they want to be.

Having kids could also be seen as selfish.

Billion , not million.
 
Yes. It is literally a selfish decision. Until we reach the singularity of a fully-automated society in which all of our needs can be fulfilled by self-maintained robots, we will need a new generation of children able to work and produce in order to sustain the older generation. That is, unless we are willing and able to accept a precipitous decline in living standards both for the older generation AND the newer generation. But this raises the question: Do you owe it to society and future generations to have children in order to supply the future labor force who will be needed to maintain living standards within your particular society? Only you can answer that.

Thank you, IMO the bold is entirely selfish and self-serving (not a personally directed comment but a reflection on the statement itself).

See: "children not as individuals with a right to life but as a workforce to serve others" (and yes I did read the whole thing, but your opinion was clear)

Do you then not believe that human life is not worthy of existence for its own sake? Must it be born to serve some purpose?
 
993 million. Either that, or one letter

Exactly, one letter. It's like the difference between sister and ****er really, isn't it? Almost the same thing, unless of course your sister can't take a dump.
 
Thank you, IMO the bold is entirely selfish and self-serving (not a personally directed comment but a reflection on the statement itself).

I really do not see how, Lursa. Stating that a new generation of young workers and producers will be required to maintain society and the social infrastructure is a self-evident fact. And the fewer children that a society has forces more burdens to be placed on the youngest generation. We already see this in places like Japan where the shrinking cohort of younger workers are forced to work longer and longer hours with fewer and fewer benefits in order to sustain the older retiree generation. This does not inure to either the retiree's benefit, whose retirement benefits are spread ever thinner, or to that of the young Japanese workers', who are forced to work longer hours.

The reason we enjoy living in a modern developed society is because we have tens of millions of people acting within a vast complex network of interconnected interpersonal transactions that allow the provision of goods and services which in turn allows for our higher standard of living. However, this network is not self-sustaining and will not continue without people to continue filling those positions. Without a large enough cohort of young workers to fill those positions, society degrades.

The individual deciding not to have children does to society what an individual throwing litter on the side of the road does to the environment. Individually, it really does not do any great deal of harm. But if enough people decide to do it, the environment rapidly degrades. Likewise, if enough people decide not to have children, the sustainability of a modern, developed society degrades.

See: "children not as individuals with a right to life but as a workforce to serve others" (and yes I did read the whole thing, but your opinion was clear)

Do you then not believe that human life is not worthy of existence for its own sake? Must it be born to serve some purpose?

Life is worthy of existence for its own sake, certainly. But in what state shall it exist? Within a modern, developed society, wherein the benefits and burdens of the economy are evenly spread across the generations in a relatively-even manner? Or one in which a small generation of young workers is forced to slave away for the benefit of their parents and grandparents? Somewhere in between? As I have said in other threads, all life is worthy of existence. However, this is a slightly different subject, which is: Modern society cannot function without a large enough generational cohort to act as its workforce. Pretend for the sake of argument Lursa, that everyone on Earth stopped having children. How long would society in the developed world continue to function? Barring a state of total automation, in which all goods and services are provided by AI-driven robots, I cannot imagine modern society would continue to function for more than 20 years or so, if that. That is because we will not have enough people able to produce goods or provide services as the older generations become too old and infirm.

And if one wishes to enjoy the myriad benefits modern society provides without putting back in, whether by contributing their time, money, energy or, indeed, the next generation to sustain society, that is their prerogative. But it is selfish to do so.
 
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What's wrong with being selfish?

Well, nothing. Not when I am being selfish and looking out for number one without regard to the consequences my actions have on others. Selfishness is only a problem when anyone else acts solely in their own self-interest without regard for the consequences their actions have on me. Then that is bad, because the selfishness starts affecting me! And I certainly do not want that, because, well, I am the protagonist of this story called life. It all begins and ends with me.
 
Over the past few years I have seen a lot of articles and heard people saying that (usually aiming at millennials) choosing to not have children either because they don't want to or can't afford to or a combination of both is selfish. I remember one article a few months ago just ripping into millennials who choose to not have kids because they don't want to impact their quality of life or cannot afford the lifestyle they want with kids because apparently all you have to do is sacrifice everything and if you don't it is very selfish. It is becoming a choice: you can have a house, you can retire, or you can have children, pick two or sometimes just one depending on cost of living and forget about the others.

I don't see anything selfish in not having children, how is it selfish for someone to not want to give their parents grandchildren or because they cannot give their children the life they want? Certainly it is the would-be grandparents being selfish in that situation. Older generations seem to think that money and your lifestyle should not be a factor in determining whether or not to have children, just because they decided to pick different things from the pick two does not mean younger generations have to choose the same.

So what do you think? Do younger generations owe their parents grandchildren? Is it selfish to want a certain lifestyle for yourself and potential children?

It's interesting who complains about millennials it's typically baby boomers. And the reality of it is cost of living has gone up so much and pay hasn't caught up with it, not to mention the skyrocketing cost of college. So when baby boomers were in their twenties they could go out and rent an apartment at 18 years old then work a job second groceries and go to school.

It isn't like that anymore I was talking to a baby boomer just a few days ago about apartments. He said one of the cost now about $750 a month? No and efficiency and my City cost about $1500. He didn't believe it.

They are out of touch which is odd because they raised the millennials.

It seems like boomers don't like the priorities of millennials.

But to answer your question no it's not wrong it's not selfish not to have kids. I think the people complaining about it are selfish.
 
I really do not see how, Lursa. Stating that a new generation of young workers and producers will be required to maintain society and the social infrastructure is a self-evident fact. And the fewer children that a society has forces more burdens to be placed on the youngest generation. We already see this in places like Japan where the shrinking cohort of younger workers are forced to work longer and longer hours with fewer and fewer benefits in order to sustain the older retiree generation. This does not inure to either the retiree's benefit, whose retirement benefits are spread ever thinner, or to that of the young Japanese workers', who are forced to work longer hours.

The reason we enjoy living in a modern developed society is because we have tens of millions of people acting within a vast complex network of interconnected interpersonal transactions that allow the provision of goods and services which in turn allows for our higher standard of living. However, this network is not self-sustaining and will not continue without people to continue filling those positions. Without a large enough cohort of young workers to fill those positions, society degrades.

The individual deciding not to have children does to society what an individual throwing litter on the side of the road does to the environment. Individually, it really does not do any great deal of harm. But if enough people decide to do it, the environment rapidly degrades. Likewise, if enough people decide not to have children, the sustainability of a modern, developed society degrades.



Life is worthy of existence for its own sake, certainly. But in what state shall it exist? Within a modern, developed society, wherein the benefits and burdens of the economy are evenly spread across the generations in a relatively-even manner? Or one in which a small generation of young workers is forced to slave away for the benefit of their parents and grandparents? Somewhere in between? As I have said in other threads, all life is worthy of existence. However, this is a slightly different subject, which is: Modern society cannot function without a large enough generational cohort to act as its workforce. Pretend for the sake of argument Lursa, that everyone on Earth stopped having children. How long would society in the developed world continue to function? Barring a state of total automation, in which all goods and services are provided by AI-driven robots, I cannot imagine modern society would continue to function for more than 20 years or so, if that. That is because we will not have enough people able to produce goods or provide services as the older generations become too old and infirm.

And if one wishes to enjoy the myriad benefits modern society provides without putting back in, whether by contributing their time, money, energy or, indeed, the next generation to sustain society, that is their prerogative. But it is selfish to do so.


Everything you wrote is rationalization of selfishness and selfish outcomes. If we didnt need to 'support' the next generation financially...would your answer be the same?

And as I also wrote, no one has kids for that reason. They have them for their own personal...selfish...reasons (unless the pregnancy is accidental).

Re: your last paragraph, can you show me that the resources used in our 'modern society' (drain on the planet) by each child produced do not add up to more than the $$ they may (or may not) contribute someday?
 
I think the danger is that if you extrapolate the idea out to everyone, our society will collapse!
More than likely it would not, as immigrants would fill the gap as long as people desire to live here,
but that could end, if our culture becomes stagnated.
 
Everything you wrote is rationalization of selfishness and selfish outcomes. If we didnt need to 'support' the next generation financially...would your answer be the same?

What is selfish about wanting to make sure that future generations are not overburdened or that current aging populations are cared for? You seem to be speaking like Ayn Rand claiming that everyone does everything for ultimately selfish reasons, and she is simply being honest and open about her selfishness.

Additionally, it is not "future" generations who need to be supported financially. It is the presently-existing generations who will need to be supported, again, presuming we do not have a total-automation revolution. But if we did achieve that? I suppose not. No one would need to have children unless we wanted the human race to continue, which I do not know if that would be a good thing or not. Perhaps it would be selfish to want it to continue.

And as I also wrote, no one has kids for that reason. They have them for their own personal...selfish...reasons (unless the pregnancy is accidental).

I did not read what you had written previously.

Re: your last paragraph, can you show me that the resources used in our 'modern society' (drain on the planet) by each child produced do not add up to more than the $$ they may (or may not) contribute someday?

Money is not the product, Lursa. Goods and services are the product. Money is simply the means of exchange and store of value with which you are able to purchase those products. However, without people able to provide those goods and services (people not too old to work), it does not matter how much money you have socked away. Unless you can be self-sufficient up until your last day in your old age, you are doomed to a slow death via starvation.
 
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How about you just don’t want the two decade plus commitment? I think some people give more thought to the household pet than they do with the issue of children. One can only claim the first born as an accident!

That idea that you don't want to commit your life to another person is why they say it's selfish. I don't think it is to not have kids. Not everybody should be parents maybe we're understanding that better than any generation before us. Think about all the screwed up people in the world how many of these screwed up people are screwed up because oh something that happened when they were children how many times did he somethings that happened when they were children to do to parents either not being ready for the commitment or not being fully committed.

No I don't think it's selfish. But then again I am a millennial and I don't have any children. I always wanted them, but the situation that I'm in would make it more difficult on the child then anything. to me if I were to go have children because I want them regardless of the situation I'm in would be selfish.
 
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