No Good Deed Goes Unpunished?

No good deed goes unpunished?

Nay, I don't believe that!

My alcoholic 59 year old sister-in-law lucked into inheriting a home from a lifelong friend. Acquiring title required an attorney and complex negotiations. To increase her prospect of success, I gifted her over $6000 by paying two years of back property taxes on said home... and I assisted in the complex negotiations. After I loaned her the money necessary to settle the estate, in spite of not filing tax returns for decades, prior tax liens and no savings, she acquired title to the home. Thereafter, I lent her additional money for a new roof, other urgent repairs and the normal costs associated with the refinancing of a home. Of course, I did so via a secured and recorded mortgage and using a competent closing agent at a title company. My sister-in-law does not qualify for conventional financing. In total, not including the gifted tax payment, I lent her $50,400 at $10 interest with a 3 year Balloon. She pays $760/month... $420 in interest, $340 for tax and insurance escrow.

As a real estate broker/Realtor, I estimate her current equity position in the home at about $200,000. After providing a critical link to the first and only home she has ever owned, she hates my guts. She has three adult daughters. My 26 year old daughter died last month. My sister-in-law did not offer a single word of sympathy.

I don't regret helping her. I consider her insensitivity and ignorance as symptoms of her alcoholism.

In any event, if she does not pay as agreed, I have the legal recourse to foreclose.

Trippy Trekker said:

No good deed goes unpunished?

Nay, I don't believe that!

My alcoholic 59 year old sister-in-law lucked into inheriting a home from a lifelong friend. Acquiring title required an attorney and complex negotiations. To increase her prospect of success, I gifted her over $6000 by paying two years of back property taxes on said home... and I assisted in the complex negotiations. After I loaned her the money necessary to settle the estate, in spite of not filing tax returns for decades, prior tax liens and no savings, she acquired title to the home. Thereafter, I lent her additional money for a new roof, other urgent repairs and the normal costs associated with the refinancing of a home. Of course, I did so via a secured and recorded mortgage and using a competent closing agent at a title company. My sister-in-law does not qualify for conventional financing. In total, not including the gifted tax payment, I lent her $50,400 at $10 interest with a 3 year Balloon. She pays $760/month... $420 in interest, $340 for tax and insurance escrow.

As a real estate broker/Realtor, I estimate her current equity position in the home at about $200,000. After providing a critical link to the first and only home she has ever owned, she hates my guts. She has three adult daughters. My 26 year old daughter died last month. My sister-in-law did not offer a single word of sympathy.

I don't regret helping her. I consider her insensitivity and ignorance as symptoms of her alcoholism.

In any event, if she does not pay as agreed, I have the legal recourse to foreclose.

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I am so sorry for your recent loss. I did not respond in the thread because I had no words.....

As to your sister-in-law, even blood-sharing family members and money is a toxic mix, imo.

Rexedgar said:

I am so sorry for your recent loss. I did not respond in the thread because I had no words.....

As to your sister-in-law, even blood-sharing family members and money is a toxic mix, imo.

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Thanks Rex.

A strong support system and conscious effort help alleviate my grief. I hope to target forgiveness more than resentment.

You also have my condolences. Nothing worse than losing a child.

I've learned long ago never to lend money to family and friends. It's much easier to give them a portion of what they ask, forget about it, far less stressful for both parties. I have no qualms about coming to the rescue when not asked.

Trippy Trekker said:

No good deed goes unpunished?

Nay, I don't believe that!

My alcoholic 59 year old sister-in-law lucked into inheriting a home from a lifelong friend. Acquiring title required an attorney and complex negotiations. To increase her prospect of success, I gifted her over $6000 by paying two years of back property taxes on said home... and I assisted in the complex negotiations. After I loaned her the money necessary to settle the estate, in spite of not filing tax returns for decades, prior tax liens and no savings, she acquired title to the home. Thereafter, I lent her additional money for a new roof, other urgent repairs and the normal costs associated with the refinancing of a home. Of course, I did so via a secured and recorded mortgage and using a competent closing agent at a title company. My sister-in-law does not qualify for conventional financing. In total, not including the gifted tax payment, I lent her $50,400 at $10 interest with a 3 year Balloon. She pays $760/month... $420 in interest, $340 for tax and insurance escrow.

As a real estate broker/Realtor, I estimate her current equity position in the home at about $200,000. After providing a critical link to the first and only home she has ever owned, she hates my guts. She has three adult daughters. My 26 year old daughter died last month. My sister-in-law did not offer a single word of sympathy.

I don't regret helping her. I consider her insensitivity and ignorance as symptoms of her alcoholism.

In any event, if she does not pay as agreed, I have the legal recourse to foreclose.

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This is exactly where emotional involvement becomes costly. You made an honest effort to fix something that was broken, namely your sister-in-law not having title to her house. Fixing peoples problems pays off in enhancing your know-how and problem solving. If you want to avoid resentment, then the answer is to do what you must to protect your interests.

I do advise helping people for the reason I stated above.

Trippy Trekker said:

After providing a critical link to the first and only home she has ever owned, she hates my guts.

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Has she deigned to inform you as to why she hates your guts?
Is it political or familial, or.....???

Like Rex, I too am at a loss for words other than "my heart is broken for you" about your daughter.

No regrets about giving charity on my terms... and engaging in sound business endeavors. Risk/Reward metrics change drastically for charity and for business when dealing with family and friends.

Blessed with some modest trust proceeds, I feel an obligation to spread some Love, often to family and friends. In April I filed a tax extension, finally, last week, got a 2018 K1 from a trust. Imagine my Big Grin when more than 80% of the income came from long term capital gains (0 tax rate); the rest came about equal from Ordinary Dividends (22% rate) and Qualified Dividends (for me 15% rate)

I believe in a 'Good Today' and an even 'Better Tomorrow'.

Let Love reign Supreme! May our Best Times lie ahead!

I have read enough of your posts to believe you know quite a bit about home renovations, real estate and mortgages. All the best to you and yours!

OldFatGuy said:

You also have my condolences. Nothing worse than losing a child.

I've learned long ago never to lend money to family and friends. It's much easier to give them a portion of what they ask, forget about it, far less stressful for both parties. I have no qualms about coming to the rescue when not asked.

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Trippy Trekker said:

No regrets about giving charity on my terms... and engaging in sound business endeavors. Risk/Reward metrics change drastically for charity and for business when dealing with family and friends.

Blessed with some modest trust proceeds, I feel an obligation to spread some Love, often to family and friends. In April I filed a tax extension, finally, last week, got a 2018 K1 from a trust. Imagine my Big Grin when more than 80% of the income came from long term capital gains (0 tax rate); the rest came about equal from Ordinary Dividends (22% rate) and Qualified Dividends (for me 15% rate)

I believe in a 'Good Today' and an even 'Better Tomorrow'.

Let Love reign Supreme! May our Best Times lie ahead!

I have read enough of your posts to believe you know quite a bit about home renovations, real estate and mortgages. All the best to you and yours!

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Meant to quote OFG in post #7

Trippy Trekker said:

No good deed goes unpunished?

Nay, I don't believe that!

My alcoholic 59 year old sister-in-law lucked into inheriting a home from a lifelong friend. Acquiring title required an attorney and complex negotiations. To increase her prospect of success, I gifted her over $6000 by paying two years of back property taxes on said home... and I assisted in the complex negotiations. After I loaned her the money necessary to settle the estate, in spite of not filing tax returns for decades, prior tax liens and no savings, she acquired title to the home. Thereafter, I lent her additional money for a new roof, other urgent repairs and the normal costs associated with the refinancing of a home. Of course, I did so via a secured and recorded mortgage and using a competent closing agent at a title company. My sister-in-law does not qualify for conventional financing. In total, not including the gifted tax payment, I lent her $50,400 at $10 interest with a 3 year Balloon. She pays $760/month... $420 in interest, $340 for tax and insurance escrow.

As a real estate broker/Realtor, I estimate her current equity position in the home at about $200,000. After providing a critical link to the first and only home she has ever owned, she hates my guts. She has three adult daughters. My 26 year old daughter died last month. My sister-in-law did not offer a single word of sympathy.

I don't regret helping her. I consider her insensitivity and ignorance as symptoms of her alcoholism.

In any event, if she does not pay as agreed, I have the legal recourse to foreclose.

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I am so very sorry to read you lost your daughter last month. My deepest heartfelt sympathy.

Your willingness to help a sister in law even with all her faults shows a person of compassion. But most times in these situations, no matter what you do for people with addictions, they will thank you one minute and turn on you like a rabid dog the next. I have lived it. It is good you have legal recourse. Not all good deeds go unpunished. But what I have learned over the years is not to lend to anyone. Either you give it as a gift with no intentions of ever seeing it again or you just don't.

The question you have to answer is this...

Do you want her in your life, and do you need the money?

If you could do without either...I'd chalk it up as a loss, and be free of her to the end of your days. Foreclosure is going to mean further interaction with her, likely over a decent period of time. If you don't want her in your life, and if she can't even be bothered to spare a kind phone call (10 minutes of mental effort), I can't imagine why you would, consider this a 50k gift to try to help straighten out a troubled family members life.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Has she deigned to inform you as to why she hates your guts?
Is it political or familial, or.....???

Like Rex, I too am at a loss for words other than "my heart is broken for you" about your daughter.

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I know one thing that can breed resentment: Demanding psychological things of people that are beyond their capabilities. It sucks when people demand sympathy. It sucks even more when people offer help instead of sympathy and it gets thrown back in their face. I'm not just talking about you, in general people are put together differently.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Has she deigned to inform you as to why she hates your guts?
Is it political or familial, or.....???

Like Rex, I too am at a loss for words other than "my heart is broken for you" about your daughter.

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Ignorance and stubborn. Alcoholic. Never graduated high school. 'Money in' makes her happy.'Money out' makes her hateful. She has no clue how the mortgage market works.

I just try to do the next right thing.

SDET said:

I know one thing that can breed resentment: Demanding psychological things of people that are beyond their capabilities. It sucks when people demand sympathy. It sucks even more when people offer help instead of sympathy and it gets thrown back in their face. I'm not just talking about you, in general people are put together differently.

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Doh! Some of our members mistake spewing idiocy as helpful advice. Other members, generally not the ones who mistake their idiocy for sympathy or helpfulness, make substantive contributions that clearly benefit the forum.

Trippy Trekker said:

Ignorance and stubborn. Alcoholic. Never graduated high school. 'Money in' makes her happy.'Money out' makes her hateful. She has no clue how the mortgage market works.

I just try to do the next right thing.

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So you're saying that she's a known quantity. She met expectations. Why are you surprised? It sounds to me like there's a good chance you will need to foreclose. It's your retirement money. Why let someone else have it? Make the time investment and protect your interests. Emotionally disengage.

KevinKohler said:

The question you have to answer is this...

Do you want her in your life, and do you need the money?

If you could do without either...I'd chalk it up as a loss, and be free of her to the end of your days. Foreclosure is going to mean further interaction with her, likely over a decent period of time. If you don't want her in your life, and if she can't even be bothered to spare a kind phone call (10 minutes of mental effort), I can't imagine why you would, consider this a 50k gift to try to help straighten out a troubled family members life.

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She has 200K of equity to protect; so far 6 for 6 on monthly payments. She has plenty of time to come up with a payoff, 2.5 years before the Balloon comes due. I prefer to give charity on my terms. Hopefully, foreclosure does not happen! It doesn't better her situation.

SDET said:

So you're saying that she's a known quantity. She met expectations. Why are you surprised? It sounds to me like there's a good chance you will need to foreclose. It's your retirement money. Why let someone else have it? Make the time investment and protect your interests. Emotionally disengage.

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Surprised? Huh? More like a rant and venting.

Her inability to see the trees from the forest, her ignorance and insensitivity annoy me.

If she had shown gratitude, with her substantial equity, I might have assisted in finding competitive mortgage money; or as an independent Realtor, offered her a deep discount on commission and resold the home.

Now I have disdain for her, not regret. She merely behaved in character. I hope someday, sooner than later, she comes to her senses.

Trippy Trekker said:

Meant to quote OFG in post #7

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No problem, understood from the context.

SDET said:

So you're saying that she's a known quantity. She met expectations. Why are you surprised? It sounds to me like there's a good chance you will need to foreclose. It's your retirement money. Why let someone else have it? Make the time investment and protect your interests. Emotionally disengage.

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I've a very close friend, who over the years has given his sister, a well known Broadway producer, and a lovely woman, more than $600k. That money went up her nose, and today at 68 he must remain working. She was always a known factor to him, he has no ill will for her, loves her still and accepts his choices. Now both her and her husband, a long time junkie as well, are suffering ill health. My friend is there for them both. He is not a religious man who talks about doing good, he merely does good unquestionably.

It is not for you to decide who should emotionally disengage. You can only speak for yourself.

OldFatGuy said:

I've a very close friend, who over the years has given his sister, a well known Broadway producer, and a lovely woman, more than $600k. That money went up her nose, and today at 68 he must remain working. She was always a known factor to him, he has no ill will for her, loves her still and accepts his choices. Now both her and her husband, a long time junkie as well, are suffering ill health. My friend is there for them both. He is not a religious man who talks about doing good, he merely does good unquestionably.

It is not for you to decide who should emotionally disengage. You can only speak for yourself.

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I'm not deciding, just pointing out the many benefits of doing so.

SDET said:

I'm not deciding, just pointing out the many benefits of doing so.

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Your language says you are recommending a decision, and in doing so, making that decision.

OldFatGuy said:

Your language says you are recommending a decision, and in doing so, making that decision.

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I will take your word for it.

You'd think people would develop some sense of gratitude after receiving that much help in their life. That's no small deed that you involved yourself in.

But for me, often good deeds don't go unpunished, and here's the definitive example of it! I had a drug problem for a few years from the late 90s til 2002. As a result, I met other people with similar 'issues'. I was living in Wilmington De at the time.


I met a girl in the 1999-2000 time frame, who had semi-recently developed a debilitating bone disease in her late 20s, that basically caused gradual degradation of bone in her joints, which was increasingly making her more and more handicapped, and immobile. She had been a competitive gymnast earlier in life, so you can imagine the depression that would cause.

To make matters worse, she had a long time boyfriend, who had been addicted to heroin and opioids(and benzos and whatever else he could get his hands on). They had both grown up in an artsy, upper middle class village called Arden, in northern Delaware. He had gotten her addicted to heroin as well. He manipulated her into prostituting herself for drug money, while he sat waiting, in whatever place he was crashing at the time, and when she returned with the money, he would often take it from her, buy 2-3 bags of heroin, use it ALL himself, and leave her in full withdrawal. Then he'd often physically beat her.

The first time I became fully aware of this unbelievably evil behavior, and was given an opportunity to speak to her alone, I told her TO F***ING LEAVE HIM, BEFORE HE KILLS HER!! I went into detail, and tried to be as convincing as I could be. It really seemed to sink in, and I thought she'd wise up.

Boy was I wrong! Not more than a week later, I'm awaiting a bus, when I hear a familiar voice yelling my name in anger from a window on the upcoming bus. It was her boyfriend, along with her! Apparently she had told him everything I told her, and he was now leaping off the bus, rushing in my direction, asking who the hell I thought I was to give relationship advice to HIS girlfriend! He got in my face, but I stood my ground, being 101% confident in the justification for my actions, despite him being 3 inches taller and heavier than I. I didn't apologize and didn't back down. I told him that he obviously didn't give a damn about her, and that I knew she would be safer without him around.

Well, to end a long story, about 3 years later, he and some other guy attempted a bank robbery for drug money, but bungled it. Then they drove to a methadone clinic, waited til a patient walked out with what they assumed was a month's supply of methadone in a lock box, and he ran up behind the guy, hit him over the head with an implement of some sort, and ran back to the car and left, only to discover just 1 days worth of methadone in the box! The victim was rushed to the hospital, but DIED a day or two later! The 2 of them were caught due to video of their bungled bank robbery, and he is now serving what I think is a life's sentence for that and for murder. So he isn't around to kill his girlfriend!

ModerationNow! said:

Boy was I wrong! Not more than a week later, I'm awaiting a bus, when I hear a familiar voice yelling my name in anger from a window on the upcoming bus. It was her boyfriend, along with her! Apparently she had told him everything I told her, and he was now leaping off the bus, rushing in my direction, asking who the hell I thought I was to give relationship advice to HIS girlfriend! He got in my face, but I stood my ground, being 101% confident in the justification for my actions, despite him being 3 inches taller and heavier than I. I didn't apologize and didn't back down. I told him that he obviously didn't give a damn about her, and that I knew she would be safer without him around.

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I hope you kept in mind, during the conflict, that he's a junkie. Anyone can kick a junkie's ass. I don't think anyone would convict you if you kicked his ass right there.