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How to win an argument

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
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Since most of us like to argue, or we wouldn't be here, I thought this article about how to change people's minds might be of interest:
Facts Don’t Change People’s Minds. Here’s What Does
Reading through posts, you can see that the first part of that is absolutely true. So, if facts don't change minds, what does? Check the link to find out:
excerpts:
The mind doesn’t follow the facts. Facts, as John Adams put it, are stubborn things, but our minds are even more stubborn. Doubt isn’t always resolved in the face of facts for even the most enlightened among us, however credible and convincing those facts might be.

We’re reluctant to acknowledge mistakes. To avoid admitting we were wrong, we’ll twist ourselves into positions that even seasoned yogis can’t hold.

I'm sure we've all observed that as well, so:
The key is to trick the mind by giving it an excuse. Convince your own mind (or your friend) that your prior decision or prior belief was the right one given what you knew, but now that the underlying facts have changed, so should the mind.

Get out of your echo chamber

We live in a perpetual echo chamber. We friend people like us on Facebook. We follow people like us on Twitter. We read the news outlets that are on the same political frequency as us.
This means our opinions aren’t being stress tested nearly as frequently as they should.
Make a point to befriend people who disagree with you. Expose yourself to environments where your opinions can be challenged, as uncomfortable and awkward as that might be.

And this is a great place to do so, isn't it? Hardly anyone here totally agrees with anyone else.
 
I don't really have strong opinions on much of anything, so I'm not really interested in winning an argument; just presenting an alternative that no one has ever considered.
 
Lol. You're just so edgy.
 
Never argue with:
Your wife
A cop
A judge
Your boss
Baseball umpire
You will lose every time.
 
Since most of us like to argue, or we wouldn't be here, I thought this article about how to change people's minds might be of interest:
Facts Don’t Change People’s Minds. Here’s What Does
Reading through posts, you can see that the first part of that is absolutely true. So, if facts don't change minds, what does? Check the link to find out:
excerpts:

I'm sure we've all observed that as well, so:


And this is a great place to do so, isn't it? Hardly anyone here totally agrees with anyone else.
I disagree

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Never argue with:
Your wife
A cop
A judge
Your boss
Baseball umpire
You will lose every time.

Totally agree. :lol:

Try to keep your emotions under control, or you might end up hitting below the belt.
 
Some minds do follow facts. Trouble is, those generally aren't the ones that really need convincing.
 
Since most of us like to argue, or we wouldn't be here, I thought this article about how to change people's minds might be of interest:
Facts Don’t Change People’s Minds. Here’s What Does

Reading through posts, you can see that the first part of that is absolutely true. So, if facts don't change minds, what does? Check the link to find out:
excerpts:

I'm sure we've all observed that as well, so:


And this is a great place to do so, isn't it? Hardly anyone here totally agrees with anyone else.


Red:
How to "change people's minds" and how to "win an argument" are two very different things.

It's long been understood that the most persuasive arguments are structurally and inferentially logical (sound/cogent) ones that, after presenting the logos elements of the argument, appeal to audience members' passions and ethics. Only when addressing "rarefied" audiences can one compellingly alter minds.
 
The best things to win an argument are alcohol, nice cars, women and comedy
 
I don't really have strong opinions on much of anything...

Now there's a position I just don't understand. Have you never read about a controversial subject and come to support one side or the other? Abortion? Gun control? Religion? Politics in general?
 
Internet debates normally end with all parties stubbornly holding to their own views, but I've been on the Internet long enough to see the exception to this rule from time to time, having changed the minds of a few people, and having my mind changed in turn.

I still find myself doing it from time to time, usually out of frustration, but I've known for a while now that once you Insult someone, or bruise their pride, it's game over. Nobody is going to want to concede to some arrogant fool who's only in it to put others down and elevate their sad, pathetic ego. Even exceptionally intelligent people think with their emotions and succumb to the irrationality of the human brain; we are all subject to this, and those of us who feel immune are probably even more suceptible. Put a person's pride on the line, and you're basically ensuring that they are more likely to fight tooth and nail to 'win', to move goal-posts and whatnot. If they feel like their reputation is on the line then 'losing' a debate or budging just an inch on one's stance becomes something that simply isn't an option to the other guy or gal; they will try to win with intellectually dishonest tactics, and probably won't even realize that they are doing it.

Acting like a jackass is also a good way to harm one's credibility in the minds of anyone capable of seeing one's behavior. Start a response to anything by laughing and retorting about how stupid someone is, and you'll instantly look like you don't have an actual rebuttal, and are compensating with generic smugness. Some people only have this within their bag of toys, posting with nothing but arrogant one-liners. Have any of you ever seen two 'talking heads' go at it, with one of the two 'combantants' making a huge show of rolling their eyes and wierd facial expressions meant to show contempt? When I see that, I automatically assume that it's someone trying to win the 'threatrics' of a debate through their poor acting skills, and I see forums posts such those that I previously described, as being the text equvilant of that. I didn't coin it, but I like the term, 'smugnorent'.

It's much easier to get someone to hear you out and consider your position if they consider you a friend, or at least, if there's mutual respect there. If the two participants value their relationship, then they are going to be less likely to hurl contemptous retorts and insidious insinuations. Conceding, even to some small aspect of an argument, may not feel like the end of the world if the other person isn't made to feel like they're going to be skewered to the wall once they admit that they might have been wrong about something.

I also think that a productive dialogue is normally unlikely if one comes to the table assuming that they can't be wrong, or that the other person can't be right about anything. I don't think the goal should just be to change the other person's mind, but to also to reavaluate one's own perspective and even to look for points of agreement. Too often people don't even listen to each other, which ends up in two having completely different conversations, or arguing against the same damned stance, just spoken in different words.

Text can be tricky, and the devil is in the details. We can't adequately express sarcasm without actually coming out and labeling something as sarcasm. The lack of body langauge, tone of voice, and facial expressions can make things difficult. Even when this is not the case, whether or not someone understands what is written entirely depends on the author's ability to convey an idea through text, and the reader's ability to properly comprehend what is being read. Two people can often draw opposing conclusions from the same text, and with the polarized, politically-centric nature of this forum, it's entirely possible that a single word could invoke a message that speaks to a reader's biases, even if it's nowhere close to the author's intent.

So far, I've talked about how one's behavior and how attention-to-detail can improve the chances of coming to some sort of agreement, however, one final idea that I want to throw out there is that I think that discussion forums like this could profit from a community as a whole reinforcing good behavior and condeming bad behavior. Most people care, at least to some degree, what others think, and if people are let loose with the facade of anonymity without any social reprocussions, they may be very well be far more tempted to indulge their darker, uglier tendencies.
 
The only thing that changes opinions is brutal reality as revealed in one's personal experiences.

If you are a liberal who is beaten up by a street thug today, you will be a conservative tomorrow.
If you are a conservative who is beaten up by a cop today, you will be a liberal tomorrow.
 
Now there's a position I just don't understand. Have you never read about a controversial subject and come to support one side or the other? Abortion? Gun control? Religion? Politics in general?

Most people (incorrectly) assume that the true regarding one topic has to either fall on the left, right or center. Those are all fallacies. Every issue has an area of gray.
 
Most people (incorrectly) assume that the true regarding one topic has to either fall on the left, right or center. Those are all fallacies. Every issue has an area of gray.

It does. Moreover, the lumping together of unrelated issues and labeling them as "conservative" or "liberal" just isn't logical at all.
 
I'm a Contrarian, so none of this really matters.


OM
 
I don't really have strong opinions on much of anything, so I'm not really interested in winning an argument; just presenting an alternative that no one has ever considered.

Correct. If someone wants argue about your unusual alternative, the best way to "win" the argument is to walk away.
 
Internet debates normally end with all parties stubbornly holding to their own views, but I've been on the Internet long enough

I helped Al Gore invent the internet.
 
Most people (incorrectly) assume that the true regarding one topic has to either fall on the left, right or center. Those are all fallacies. Every issue has an area of gray.

How on earth does that stop you from having your own opinion?
 
We live in a perpetual echo chamber. We friend people like us on Facebook. We follow people like us on Twitter. We read the news outlets that are on the same political frequency as us.
This means our opinions aren’t being stress tested nearly as frequently as they should.
Make a point to befriend people who disagree with you. Expose yourself to environments where your opinions can be challenged, as uncomfortable and awkward as that might be.
[FONT=&]And this is a great place to do so, isn't it? Hardly anyone here totally agrees with anyone else. [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

Well, maybe. I mean it it makes sense and sounds good and reasonable and all.

But how many people do you know here who have ever actually changed their mind on anything, despite all the arguing and exposure to different views? Frankly, I just come here to vent. I don't actually expect to change my own opinion, nor change anyone else's. That's not a realistic goal, I have found.
 
Well, maybe. I mean it it makes sense and sounds good and reasonable and all.

But how many people do you know here who have ever actually changed their mind on anything, despite all the arguing and exposure to different views? Frankly, I just come here to vent. I don't actually expect to change my own opinion, nor change anyone else's. That's not a realistic goal, I have found.

One of the things that sometimes changes people minds is having good sex.
I know that because I had a friend who was a national socialist. Once, he went to Sweden for several months and had a relation ship with a nice girl, and the next time I saw him, he kept on being a socialist but didn´t seem to be a national socialist. Anyway, a long time after that, I saw him again, and he said one thing to my father that made me believe he became a national socialist again.
 
Well, maybe. I mean it it makes sense and sounds good and reasonable and all.

But how many people do you know here who have ever actually changed their mind on anything, despite all the arguing and exposure to different views? Frankly, I just come here to vent. I don't actually expect to change my own opinion, nor change anyone else's. That's not a realistic goal, I have found.

Venting is the main goal of most of us, no doubt. This is really an entertainment site.
Lots of people use Facebook the same way. I wish they would come here instead of posting nonsense there.
 
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