Your car's engine may likely be destroyed due to stupid engineering!

Rexedgar said:

Need a parachute on that rig with that single reservoir master cylinder!

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No different than almost any car of that era save for the Volvo but I heartily agree with you anyway.
The handful of antique/classic cars that I've helped friends restore over the years all received the same treatment, ripping out the old single system brakes and replacement with dual cylinders and, discs up front for some of them and four wheel discs for others.
Purists will howl with indignation but in reality such nonsense is only valid if you're attempting a concours level OEM makeover.
For a useful and practical daily driver, I always urge the restomod approach.

Let the purists howl...they don't have to get behind the wheel and get on the freeway in those cars.

Chomsky said:

This is a pretty amazing post, and I'm not sure what to make of it. While it's true good engineering means only designing to the design requirement and no more, I have a hard time believing the engineers were specifically designing-in catastrophic or cascading failure.

And for what it's worth, nylon (toothed) timing gears were used back in the day for quieter operation, as today are timing belts (vs chains). But yeah they sucked, I will admit it.

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Yes, he said so they are quieter is the reason gave Pontiac for going to the nylon timing gear. They would not say "so it breaks down somewhere between 100,000 and 140,000 miles depending upon heat and rpm factors."

Why would an automobile company not want that to happen when most their cars that were financed from being new now are nearly or have been paid off? Thus, the person is making payments on a next new Pontiac decade after decade. If a person's Pontiac lasts for 1 million miles with only a few little problems mechanically and the interior remaining tight and the fabric still good, why buy a new car? Somehow commercial diesel trucks alternators just happen to last 5 to 10 time as long?

Rexedgar said:

Need a parachute on that rig with that single reservoir master cylinder!

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Racers did not want to switch from the side oiler Ford 427 for the 429. The 429, like the Boss 302 and Cleveland 4V 351 were all new generation motors to meet Ford's prior reputation of two small motor valves. Instead, the valves and runners were way too big - but each of those motors was meant to evolve bigger - the 429 to over 600 cid and the 351C into the lower 400 CID. OEM sideoiler Ford 427 motors should be collectibles that only increase in value as they become rarer.

A restomod 68 Cougar - black interior - manual 4 speed replaced with a 5 speed, and a sideoiler 427 would be a dream car - and that motor was an option in Cougars that year, though this does not match my ultimate dream muscle car: A white 1969 or 1970 Boss 429 Mustang with a black interior - restomod ok and modest upping the horsepower, suspension, brakes, wheels, and tires plus a 5 speed would make it the perfect ultimate old school muscle car.

joko104 said:

Racers did not want to switch from the side oiler Ford 427 for the 429. The 429, like the Boss 302 and Cleveland 4V 351 were all new generation motors to meet Ford's prior reputation of two small motor valves. Instead, the valves and runners were way too big - but each of those motors was meant to evolve bigger - the 429 to over 600 cid and the 351C into the lower 400 CID. OEM sideoiler Ford 427 motors should be collectibles that only increase in value as they become rarer.

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My post referred to the single reservoir m/c. Indicates original 4 wheel drum brakes as disc and drum need valving to stop the car without nosediving........If you make the car go fast quick, it would be a good idea to update the braking system as well, no?

:doh

Rexedgar said:

Need a parachute on that rig with that single reservoir master cylinder!

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Yeah I learned about the Ford SOHC 427 from my very 1st boss in the mid 80s. He owned a machine shop that produced high stall torque convertors, and I worked there for 2.5 years while in high school. In the 60s, he raced a Shelby Mustang drag car with a 427 tunnel port crate engine. Talking to him at 16 years old is what got me into Fords. I bought a 65 Comet Caliente with a 289 4v in 1990, that needed more work than I was in any way prepared for. It was so uncommon to see a 65 Comet, even in 1990, that I bought it even though it had an 'unknown' overheating problem among other issues, at a time when I lived in an apartment complex, with no place to work on it, and management who quickly made it clear they wanted it OFF their property as long as it wasn't tagged and inspected(despite having a near empty parking lot behind my apt). I ended up having to get rid of it very soon after. It was a knee jerk purchase at 22 years old, that lost me money. I've watched that Comet video a few times. I

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Not crazy at all.
American cars ARE BACK, and it's time people realized that we make damn good vehicles again.
American cars have been "back" for quite some time now, I'd say since the early 2000's for the most part.
As far as GM's V8 offerings, they were making good V6 engines in the 1990's.
I had an Astro with the W series 4.3 liter V6, and although the van itself was constantly falling apart, the engine and transmission were amazingly strong.

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I must admit that LGX engine was sweet. And a nice revver.

335HP @ 6800R, 384FT-LB @ 5300R, 7200R Redline.

I would love to drop one of these in a Miata! :thumbs:

joko104 said:

Somehow commercial diesel trucks alternators just happen to last 5 to 10 time as long?

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Uhhhh, commercial diesel truck alternators?
You mean the kind designed to deliver anywhere between 120 and 250 amps on a continuous basis?

joko104 said:

Yes, he said so they are quieter is the reason gave Pontiac for going to the nylon timing gear. They would not say "so it breaks down somewhere between 100,000 and 140,000 miles depending upon heat and rpm factors."

Why would an automobile company not want that to happen when most their cars that were financed from being new now are nearly or have been paid off? Thus, the person is making payments on a next new Pontiac decade after decade. If a person's Pontiac lasts for 1 million miles with only a few little problems mechanically and the interior remaining tight and the fabric still good, why buy a new car? Somehow commercial diesel trucks alternators just happen to last 5 to 10 time as long?

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I can see designing for a given longevity, but in your earlier post what you described sounded more nefarious. As if they were originally designing for catastrophic failure, rather than simple length of service MTBF. I'm not sure I believe that.

Rexedgar said:

My post referred to the single reservoir m/c. Indicates original 4 wheel drum brakes as disc and drum need valving to stop the car without nosediving........If you make the car go fast quick, it would be a good idea to update the braking system as well, no?

:doh

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The brakes is classic muscle cars are inferior. However, as much brakes are not needed for drag racing than for road racing, which puts huge stress on the brakes.

Chomsky said:

I can see designing for a given longevity, but in your earlier post what you described sounded more nefarious. As if they were originally designing for catastrophic failure, rather than simple length of service MTBF. I'm not sure I believe that.

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It could not be failure that endangers life nor occurs too quickly. For example, a steering column has to last forever. Flywheel can't explode cutting off the people's legs.

Why do you think diesel 18 wheeler motors tend to last 1 million miles and no car engine does - yet the truck motor is worked far harder?

There is no difference between designing a part not to last a really long time and designing one that doesn't, other then the latter is more challenging.

ModerationNow! said:

Your vehicle probably has a timing belt. The problem is that belts break, they stretch, and some even fail due to oil or coolant speeding up the process of degradation, which causes the belt's teeth to be sheared off by the crankshaft pulley. That leads to the same problem with broken belts, which is your engine's valve/piston synchronization is suddenly knocked out of timing. Most car's made in the past 35-40 years have timing belts, and worse yet, many engines are designed in a way that they CANNOT tolerate or survive a broken timing belt in most cases. That's because the designers designed these engines in a way where the valves will hit the pistons if the timing is knocked out of sequence. These engines are universally referred to by mechanics as "interference engines". If your timing belt fails, the timing is instantly knocked out, and your engine rpm will suddenly spike up for a second, then drop to nothing as the engine shuts off. If it's an interference engine, your pistons will SLAM into your valves at thousands of rpms, destroying the engine! That will look like this: View attachment 67242273

A better idea is the timing chain, which usually consists of a double chain running on sprockets. Here:

Older cars, and modern vehicles with more powerful, heavy duty engines have a superior chain drive. I was looking at a video recently, of an old Ford pickup from the late 60s. It wasn't a fancy restoration or a Hot Rod. In fact, it didn't even have a V8 engine. It still relied on its original, 50 year old 300 cubic inch(5 liter) inline 6 cylinder. I knew a few people who owned Fords with that engine, but I just learned that engine was designed with a gear drive, which is the toughest, most reliable system of valve timing, although they are rare.Here: View attachment 67242272

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Newer model Hyundai's come with steel timing chains. Timing belts are usually changed out at 60,000 miles. If you own a vehicle with a belt and ignore the manufacturers service recommendation then you're driving on borrowed time

ModerationNow! said:

Yeah, car's are no longer designed to last a long time, if they ever were. Some major automotive assemblies, such as engines, transmissions, differentials etc, in some vehicles, were designed to actually hold up for a long time and be very durable. That Ford 300cu/in inline 6 cyl was designed to be very durable and last a long time. The photo of its gear driven timing system is a major clue.

What's really impressive, is that despite the fact that it has a very robust timing assembly, it was also designed so that even if somehow the timing was thrown way off, the pistons and valves will Not contact each other under any circumstances, which proves that designers CAN design non-interference engines! It's not a necessary prerequisite that valves must move so far into the cylinder that they contact the pistons when out of proper timing....

Generally, only expensive, high performance engines have gear drives installed. They are a bit noisy, although Ford put a fiber gear in that 300 6 cyl, to keep noise down. Otherwise, a car with a solid steel steel gear drive sounds as if it has a supercharger. I think they sound cool, but that's just personal preference. But a chain drive is almost as good, and doesn't make noise.

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Depends on the manufacturer and whether or not the owner services it regularly.
I remember that cars of the 1970s, like the Chrysler K car. We've come a long way since then.

Past muscle cars and modern muscle cars are entirely different. Muscle cars from the factory in the 60s and 70s topped out around 130, and for 4.10ish rear gear cars around 110 to 120. Modern muscle cars? 160, 180 or a bit more. Which you absolutely can't use.

My beef against most restomods I see - personal opinion - is 90+% use old 3 speed Chevy automatic transmissions and 350 Chevy small blocks with carbs. Very generic. An automatic tranny car in a "street rod" in classics. With a 4 speed it is a "hotrod." An old fella next door spent over a decade building a bucket T with a twin 4 barrel Chevy 409 and it has a manual 4 speed. Done meticulously. That's a "hotrod."

joko104 said:

Past muscle cars and modern muscle cars are entirely different. Muscle cars from the factory in the 60s and 70s topped out around 130, and for 4.10ish rear gear cars around 110 to 120. Modern muscle cars? 160, 180 or a bit more. Which you absolutely can't use.

My beef against most restomods I see - personal opinion - is 90+% use old 3 speed Chevy automatic transmissions and 350 Chevy small blocks with carbs. Very generic. An automatic tranny car in a "street rod" in classics. With a 4 speed it is a "hotrod." An old fella next door spent over a decade building a bucket T with a twin 4 barrel Chevy 409 and it has a manual 4 speed. Done meticulously. That's a "hotrod."

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I have a hard time keeping up with the semantics involving all the different potential ways people rebuild and redesign old cars. I think "restomod" means an old car that keeps its classic aesthetics, but is rebuilt using a LOT of modern mechanical technology(new suspension designs, newer model trabsmissions, new high performance 4 wheel disc brakes). Maybe an older engine is used, but it's probably topped off with a new efi system that's programmable, with electronic ignition etc. About the only things left over that are truly from the era the car was originally produced, is the body and some of the interior.

In cases like that, what you often see is an old LOOKING car that outhandles and outperforms many new sports cars. To me, that would be the absolute epitome of automotive perfection, because although newer sports cars do handle well, they look boring and soul-less. But older cars from the 60s and early 70s don't have that problem. They look like they were designed by people who actually had great artistic talent.

Here's a VERY understated 64 Ford "Thunderbolt" Fairlane replica that's somewhere between restomod and rat rod. Its got a worn looking, oxidized finish, but that's intentional. Unlike the real Thunderbolts that Ford created 100 of strictly for early super stock drag racing, and which laid down insanely quick 1/4 mile times, but were only good for straight line racing, this car here is designed to tear it up through corners or straightaways! BTW, this is a great channel to follow!
https://youtu.be/Aj29Zf2Uua0

jimbo said:

Points could be reset. You could buy a feeler gauge with a file, adjuster, and feeler gauge, or at least on Fords, a fingernail file and a worn Mercury dime would work.

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Yeah points can be reset, also on many vehicles a folding matchbook works as well to set points, now setting dwell is a much more complicated matter.

joko104 said:

Past muscle cars and modern muscle cars are entirely different. Muscle cars from the factory in the 60s and 70s topped out around 130, and for 4.10ish rear gear cars around 110 to 120. Modern muscle cars? 160, 180 or a bit more. Which you absolutely can't use.

My beef against most restomods I see - personal opinion - is 90+% use old 3 speed Chevy automatic transmissions and 350 Chevy small blocks with carbs. Very generic. An automatic tranny car in a "street rod" in classics. With a 4 speed it is a "hotrod." An old fella next door spent over a decade building a bucket T with a twin 4 barrel Chevy 409 and it has a manual 4 speed. Done meticulously. That's a "hotrod."

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On the bolded I hate that with a passion, you can go to a car show and be lucky to find the one car with something besides a 350 or ls under the hood. I myself would put in something like a an old chrysler polyshphere or one of the early hemi's, or a 409 chevy because who the hell else has one under their hood these days? An odd one I have seen was a old ford pickup from the model a era, forget the year but it had the old ford flathead in it converted for throttle body injection, and modified to fit an old air cooled ford-o-matic from the mid 50's, with the original am radio which looked archaic and was massive for a car radio(that was the only way they did it then) mounted on the passenger side floorboard, with a modern radio hidden out of sight under the dash.

beerftw said:

Chrysler and gm both make ohc v8 engines, chrysler has rocker arm issues, and gm only put ohc v8 engines in certain high performance vehicles like the corvette.

The ford 4.6 and 5.4 in older configurations is rock solid, too many I have seen rach 3-400k miles with no timing chain issues. The problem comes with the 3 valve setups, their cam actuators fail, especially if the owners do not do religious oil changes. Many of them give the early warning sign where they sound like a diesel engine even though they are gas, sometimes they throw codes and check engine lights, sometimes they throw no codes but misfire badly or just have no guts because their actuators stick causing a problem wih timing advance.

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Although GM was planning on an OHC v8 to be used in the Corvette starting in 2018, I don't think they pulled the trigger on that plan yet. I'm also not aware of any Chrysler Corp overhead cam v8, unless it was borrowed from one of their 6-15 different corporate overlord car companies from recent years.... Lol

beerftw said:

On the bolded I hate that with a passion, you can go to a car show and be lucky to find the one car with something besides a 350 or ls under the hood. I myself would put in something like a an old chrysler polyshphere or one of the early hemi's, or a 409 chevy because who the hell else has one under their hood these days? An odd one I have seen was a old ford pickup from the model a era, forget the year but it had the old ford flathead in it converted for throttle body injection, and modified to fit an old air cooled ford-o-matic from the mid 50's, with the original am radio which looked archaic and was massive for a car radio(that was the only way they did it then) mounted on the passenger side floorboard, with a modern radio hidden out of sight under the dash.

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There aren't too many things in life that annoy me more than a Ford with a Chevy 350(or a bored - stroked version of it). I understand that it's cheaper to build a 350 than a 351C(or W), but damn, I'd rather wait an extra month or two to save up the extra $$ to NOT end up with a 350!

joko104 said:

My beef against most restomods I see - personal opinion - is 90+% use old 3 speed Chevy automatic transmissions and 350 Chevy small blocks with carbs.

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Where have you been?
Ninety percent of restomods are using GM LS series engines and GM 700R4 four speed auto transmissions.
You cannot beat an LS series V8 for simplicity or power to weight, or durability. Dollar for dollar and pound for pound it is one of the best V8 bargains on the market, and they are only carbureted if you want them to be.



The old carbureted Gen I and Gen II small blocks started to go away in 1995 and by 2003 the LS was dominating nearly every aspect of GM's high performance stable.
The old GM THM 350 and 400 3 speed slushbox is old roadkill, long since traded for their computer controlled gearboxes.

ModerationNow! said:

Although GM was planning on an OHC v8 to be used in the Corvette starting in 2018, I don't think they pulled the trigger on that plan yet. I'm also not aware of any Chrysler Corp overhead cam v8, unless it was borrowed from one of their 6-15 different corporate overlord car companies from recent years.... Lol

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The Northstar engine is a DOHC unit and now GM is debuting a brand new DOHC plant for the newest Vettes but the LT5 was available in select 1990 MY Vettes.

Where have you people been?

Checkerboard Strangler said:

The Northstar engine is a DOHC unit and now GM is debuting a brand new DOHC plant for the newest Vettes but the LT5 was available in select 1990 MY Vettes.

Where have you people been?

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I admit not knowing that Cadillac's "Northstar" engine was an ohc engine. But they've since dropped it and reverted back to the ohv LS engines.

As to your signature claiming that "leftist is the new right wing substitute for Juden", that's just plain ignorant of reality, and offensive! There's absolutely NO correlation between disagreeing with politics of the other side, and hating Jews! Again, that's just plain ridiculous! I've NEVER held ANY ill will towards Jews, and I've had many Jewish clients and some Jewish friends. But I certainly am disgusted by the current direction the left wing movement is headed, for reasons just like that! BTW: if you really want to make claims that conservatives are antisemitic, then why is it that conservatives almost always support Israel(the Jews), while leftists are almost always against them?? Hmmm

ModerationNow! said:

I admit not knowing that Cadillac's "Northstar" engine was an ohc engine. But they've since dropped it and reverted back to the ohv LS engines.

As to your signature claiming that "leftist is the new right wing substitute for Juden", that's just plain ignorant of reality, and offensive! There's absolutely NO correlation between disagreeing with politics of the other side, and hating Jews! Again, that's just plain ridiculous! I've NEVER held ANY ill will towards Jews, and I've had many Jewish clients and some Jewish friends. But I certainly am disgusted by the current direction the left wing movement is headed, for reasons just like that! BTW: if you really want to make claims that conservatives are antisemitic, then why is it that conservatives almost always support Israel(the Jews), while leftists are almost always against them?? Hmmm

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Hey guess what, you guys got your orders to plaster the term "LEFTISTS" everywhere...EVERYWHERE, and now you're masturbating to "unhinged angry mobs of violent leftists".



Do you HONESTLY think I give a rat's ass if you find my sig line offensive? I touched a nerve, that's why.
We see what you folks are doing.

Provoking violence with the use of ultra nationalist groups and and then blaming the defensive reaction on their opponents is exactly how every totalitarian regime has gained power in the past. You and your fearless leader have embarked on a naked and bald faced attempt to set the stage for the destruction of democratic institutions and replacing them with authoritarian rule.

And your support for Israel stems from the Dominionists, which means it boils down to a real estate move, because Dominionists and Reconstructionists view Jews as "Christians who are not yet perfected", read the sermons and don't take my word for it. The only Jewish people you support are right wing Jews.

You just keep on spewing your left wing leftist leftist leftist drivel all you want my friend. Keep it up.
LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST make sure you use that word to death...flog it like a government mule.

Meanwhile, there's DEMOCRATS like Richard Ojeda who are working hard to lead and solve problems.
Last but not least, you can stick your crap about Jews where the Sun doesn't shine because my father was a Jew who fled Hitler, came to America, got drafted, wound up right back in Germany again, took two Nazi bullets to the head and neck, and then went on to become one of the most gifted nuclear physicists in the history of the DoD.
Your fearless leader can fly around the world in Air Force One without fear of critical electronics failure due to nuclear EMP thanks to systems developed by my father.

You're WELCOME.

Whine and cry all you want about being offended, I WANT you to be offended, because the thing you should be offended about, you celebrate instead.
I'm not buying your crying game for one second.

You better hope Ojeda or someone like him doesn't decide to run in 2020.
If he does, or if anyone like him does, you're toast.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Hey guess what, you guys got your orders to plaster the term "LEFTISTS" everywhere...EVERYWHERE, and now you're masturbating to "unhinged angry mobs of violent leftists".

View attachment 67242687

Do you HONESTLY think I give a rat's ass if you find my sig line offensive? I touched a nerve, that's why.
We see what you folks are doing.

Provoking violence with the use of ultra nationalist groups and and then blaming the defensive reaction on their opponents is exactly how every totalitarian regime has gained power in the past. You and your fearless leader have embarked on a naked and bald faced attempt to set the stage for the destruction of democratic institutions and replacing them with authoritarian rule.

And your support for Israel stems from the Dominionists, which means it boils down to a real estate move, because Dominionists and Reconstructionists view Jews as "Christians who are not yet perfected", read the sermons and don't take my word for it. The only Jewish people you support are right wing Jews.

You just keep on spewing your left wing leftist leftist leftist drivel all you want my friend. Keep it up.
LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST LEFTIST make sure you use that word to death...flog it like a government mule.

Meanwhile, there's DEMOCRATS like Richard Ojeda who are working hard to lead and solve problems.
Last but not least, you can stick your crap about Jews where the Sun doesn't shine because my father was a Jew who fled Hitler, came to America, got drafted, wound up right back in Germany again, took two Nazi bullets to the head and neck, and then went on to become one of the most gifted nuclear physicists in the history of the DoD.
Your fearless leader can fly around the world in Air Force One without fear of critical electronics failure due to nuclear EMP thanks to systems developed by my father.

You're WELCOME.

Whine and cry all you want about being offended, I WANT you to be offended, because the thing you should be offended about, you celebrate instead.
I'm not buying your crying game for one second.

You better hope Ojeda or someone like him doesn't decide to run in 2020.
If he does, or if anyone like him does, you're toast.

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What exactly does, "you're toast" mean? Are you going to have your benevolent government come and accuse every non-progressive as Nazis, and throw us all in prison? Sounds like you sure are peaceful and democratic! You literally are exactly what you are complaining about! YOU are an authoritarian! Listen to yourself! YOU have drunk the Kool Aid, and YOU are making threats against the liberty of people, simply because they don't think like you! Oh and btw, I wouldn't support Israel if I was the raging Nazi that you are trying to make me out to be! Also, I don't go to church on sundays, because I AM NOT a practicing religious person, so there goes your theories!

Actually you are 100% wrong. I began using the term "leftist" to describe people from "the left" side of politics a long time ago. Look back at my older posts. I use that term, because as Hillary pointed out way back in 2008 when she was asked "do you consider yourself a liberall", she said "no. the term liberal doesn't accurately describe our movement now, so we use the term progressive", She was correct that many 'progressives' have walked away from the most important aspects that define the term "liberal". But I also don't particularly agree with their use of the term "progressive", because in reality, what many of them are trying to bring about is a socialist revolution. I don't see anything 'progressive' about an idea that's been deceptively hoisted on societies for so long, that most people who first espoused it, were still 60+ years away from ever owning their first automobile!

As far as your complaint about conservatives referring to 'progressives' as leftists, I don't know where to start. Its like a guy with a mosquito bite complaining about it, while the guy beside him has a 6" knife sticking out of his chest! Believe me, being occasionally called a leftist on maybe 1 tv channel and some AM radio channels, is a helluva lot better and less painful than routinely being arbitrarily labeled "racist", "Nazi", Fascist", "bigot", "homophobe" on a bunch of tv channels, newspapers, online media sites etc. There's no comparison!

ModerationNow! said:

What exactly does, "you're toast" mean? Are you going to have your benevolent government come and accuse every non-progressive as Nazis, and throw us all in prison?

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You are welcome to rewrite your response without the hysteria.

ModerationNow! said:

There aren't too many things in life that annoy me more than a Ford with a Chevy 350(or a bored - stroked version of it). I understand that it's cheaper to build a 350 than a 351C(or W), but damn, I'd rather wait an extra month or two to save up the extra $$ to NOT end up with a 350!

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The bad this is the 302 and 351 are not more expensive to build at all until you start getting past the 500 hp range, which is where the aftermarket has a small supply raising prices vs the 350 which has parts galore. When I hear people swear a 350 is so cheap to build and watch when they have 3-5k in reciepts to get 400 hp and can watch someone else do the same for 1.5k with a 302, I know it is not cost, it is laziness and familiarity. Anyone can get a 350 core block for a six pack of beer and for most hotrodders that is the only engine they understand. The laziness thing also covers adapter kits, which for resto mods 99% of the market only covers kits for a 350 or a ls series engine, which means anything different requires you to actually fabricate things.


But on cost alone ford and chrysler and amc generally overbuilt all of their engines(ok amc had some oiling issues) gm on the other hand many of their engines were designed to be cheap and mass produced, which is much of the reason the extensive aftermaket exists, gm was so big it had to cater to the young racer and grandma and the family sedan, so engines like the 350 as well as many of their engines save a few were designed to be very generic but flexible. But in terms of building an engine I can build up a chrysler 2 bolt main small block to 500 hp and so long as the rpm's were not set in the high revving range even use the cast crank heads and top end if they solid lifters like the 273. Which a chevy 350 nearly everything needs an upgrade, it is not like the 327 or other blocks designed with performance in mind, but built to be affordable.