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Why do people find it so hard...

OlNate said:
haha...ah, Maggie...you hang out in a debate forum, and don't understand why people can't say "I'm sorry"? :) This isn't exactly the "Age of Sorry".

Of course, I agree with you, life would be a lot easier if we could all do what you're suggesting. But that would mean having to take responsibility, to be accountable, and we're not wired that way at the moment, for the most part. Even up here in the Land of Apologies, no one ever apologizes for anything important unless the situation has gotten ridiculous. I mean, our government is just now apologizing for putting indigenous kids in residential schools, and there are people who are opposed to even today.

Maybe the fear is that sincerely apologizing, or admitting one's wrongness, implies liability somehow - that something will be owed, and that fear is equality possible in big, country level apologies, or in our one on one relationships. Not being wrong has become more important than being right, I think.

Anyway...if you figure it out, let me know. I'm free with my apologies, because for me the burden of being an asshole is heavier than anything apologizing would net me, I would much rather deal with the situation out of the gates, vs. let it drag along powered by my own stubbornness... I have anxiety, so stubbornness doesn't get me far...haha .... :)
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It gets again to neurochenical addictions.

Admitting one is wrong usually results in losing the neurochemical rewards one was getting for believing whatever it was.

And we don't like to do that.

Con men frequently hit the same mark more than once because of this.

We would rather believe a pretty lie than admit we have been fooled.
 
MaggieD said:
To say I’m sorry? Or I was wrong?

Im at a loss about this. The ability to say these words is often the difference in successful social interactions and being known as an asshole, in my opinion.

I see it on here allll the time. Someone makes an assertion. Another poster posts a thread that thoroughly disproves it. First poster disappears. Hardly an ever, “Oops. I was wrong once before. This makes twice.” Simply slinks away. I’m guilty of it occasionally myself although I’ve NEVER been wrong. Haha!

In our personal lives, we see it all the time. On a thread not long ago, a poster posted, “I never apologize to anyone except my wife.” We all know why he apologizes to HER...If wifey ain’t happy, NObody’s happy.” So that almost doesn’t count.

A good friend had a huge blowout with her new roommate where the roommate shouted that she felt completely disrespected by my friend, cried, carried on, and eventually disappeared for hours. Upon returning, she locked herself in her room. My friend knocked on her door, and the roommate started all over again. My friend left her a note this morning that read something like...

“We can work this out. We need to talk. My new refrigerator will be delivered between 1 and 3, just to remind you.” She intentionally kept it short.

I suggested to her last night that her note read, “I am sorry that I hurt your feelings, Cathy. We can work this out. Let’s talk when I get home tonight. Just a reminder than my new fridge is coming between 1 and 3. If that’s a problem for you, just call me, and I’ll leave work.”

Why does this trained psychologist who counsels others on reasonable communication skills find my suggestion, a good one, something she simply can’t do herself?

I consider my ability to apologize and admit when I’m wrong my greatest strength. Why is it so hard for so many people?

I’d Love if our posters who have trouble with this to tell us why...

Im sorry for posting yet another TLDR. I understand. (See? That wasn’t hard at all.) ;)
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I have no idea, I think the answer is some where between insecurity/dishonesty and simply not caring about right or wrong/trolling. Its a weird thing that happens way more on line though. I dont encounter it that much in real life at all. here and there.
For me personally its the easiest thing to do and most logical thats why I do it if it happens. The few times it has happened I have made complete posts about it and usual PM the person to make sure they seen it and apologize again in the PM.
 
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AGENT J said:
I have no idea, I think the answer is some where between insecurity/dishonesty and simply not caring about right or wrong/trolling. Its a weird thing that happens way more on line though. I dont encounter it that much in real life at all. here and there.
For me personally its the easiest thing to do and most logical thats why I do it if it happens. The few times it has happened I have made complete posts about it and usual PM the person to make sure they seen and apologize again in the PM.
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Good man.
 
PleasantValley said:
In the hotel business I apologize all the time. Americans seem to think an apology means accepting blame. It does not. maybe that is why few apologize on here, or anywhere on-line for that matter. I have the Japanese attitude about an apology. I am sorry it happened. genuinely so. If to blame I will accept it, but first and foremost, just be sorry an unfortunate event happened. Now in my hotel business it does not mean I will give away the farm, but there are all kinds of things I can do as a regional manager that others can't. The advantage here is hotels are like hookers. We can sell it, but we still have it. So comping a room here and there is no big thing.

On-line however, there are those who feel so empowered by the cloaking privacy their true personality comes out. Drunkenness and the internet are very good indicators of a person's true self. Most are polite and respectful, but then there are those others that will tell you long and loud how right they are about everything and never, I mean never, (A) admit they were wrong about anything, and (B) never apologize for their horrible behavior no matter what they do and did.

So, MaggieD, the best answer this man can give you is....that is their true self. They feel superior to everyone or are merely lacking any social behavioral boundaries.
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Yes, it is SO important in business. Your outlook is undoubtedly what has risen you to regional manager. Your opinion about why people don’t do it on line is probably spot on.

What if...? said:
It gets again to neurochenical addictions.

Admitting one is wrong usually results in losing the neurochemical rewards one was getting for believing whatever it was.

And we don't like to do that.

Con men frequently hit the same mark more than once because of this.

We would rather believe a pretty lie than admit we have been fooled.
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Your last line is perfect. Think of all the men and women on the internet who’ve been scammed by Nigerian supposed lovers. Send tens of thousands of dollars in futility because they refuse to accept they’ve been taken.
 
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On a serious note, people usually refuse to back down in political arguments because admitting that they are wrong on something they hold so dear to their heart is unacceptable. Think any of the (a)theists in the Religion forums, or the vicious back-and-forth over abortion and guns. When an issue is extremely important to someone, the human brain reacts to evidence or arguments against our dearest beliefs as though our very identity as an individual were under attack.

People are capable of admitting that they are wrong about things they care a great deal about, but it's a difficult pill to swallow. This is also why the vast majority of people's political opinions are set in stone as young adults, and just don't change very much for the rest of their lives. There are exceptions, of course; a human is greater than the sum total of the chemicals in their nervous system, and some people do manage to change, but it's not statistically common.
 
I have seen you do it on more than one occasion MaggieD, I agree you have been known to apologize/admit an error and move on. But you're reasonable and largely a good person based on your posts.

I think some people are bad people, and some may or may not be bad, but get all worked up about reputation, ego, credibility, etc., which is kind of bad in itself.

I agree, the most credible people, with the best reputations, are those who are willing to admit mistakes. No system is effective unless it has good error detection AND correction methods.
This goes for "people" too. And if we cannot judge if someone is actually taking/accepting correction, it's a flag. If their ego prevents them from it when clearly they are wrong, it's a flag.

Needless to say, many people on these forums have so many yellow/red flags against their character that it looks like a chia-pet.

And maybe that's why politics and society is so hard, throughout history. How do people who are good, get along with people who are not? We've tried wars, turns out bad people spring into existence on every side. We've tried elitism, but turns out not only are many elites bad, simply the process of becoming an elite may turn good people bad(!). We've tried holding down the masses with power...but power corrupts those with it to be bad too.

So the answer is that's human nature. How do we manage it? With rules, reason, reputation, while keeping in mind that some people will intentionally try to circumvent and corrupt each and every one of those things.

That said, I have admitted an error before for example, where I found out later I was wrong, and posted that finding to the person to say "He look, turns out I was wrong!". They met that with antagonism and dismissal. In such cases, I may not bother to admit anything to such an individual again, there are a few that I categorize that way.
 
Mach said:
I have seen you do it on more than one occasion MaggieD, I agree you have been known to apologize/admit an error and move on. But you're reasonable and largely a good person based on your posts.

I think some people are bad people, and some may or may not be bad, but get all worked up about reputation, ego, credibility, etc., which is kind of bad in itself.

I agree, the most credible people, with the best reputations, are those who are willing to admit mistakes. No system is effective unless it has good error detection AND correction methods.
This goes for "people" too. And if we cannot judge if someone is actually taking/accepting correction, it's a flag. If their ego prevents them from it when clearly they are wrong, it's a flag.

Needless to say, many people on these forums have so many yellow/red flags against their character that it looks like a chia-pet.

And maybe that's why politics and society is so hard, throughout history. How do people who are good, get along with people who are not? We've tried wars, turns out bad people spring into existence on every side. We've tried elitism, but turns out not only are many elites bad, simply the process of becoming an elite may turn good people bad(!). We've tried holding down the masses with power...but power corrupts those with it to be bad too.

So the answer is that's human nature. How do we manage it? With rules, reason, reputation, while keeping in mind that some people will intentionally try to circumvent and corrupt each and every one of those things.

That said, I have admitted an error before for example, where I found out later I was wrong, and posted that finding to the person to say "He look, turns out I was wrong!". They met that with antagonism and dismissal. In such cases, I may not bother to admit anything to such an individual again, there are a few that I categorize that way.
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Thank you fo some interesting insight.
 
MaggieD said:
To say I’m sorry? Or I was wrong?

Im at a loss about this. The ability to say these words is often the difference in successful social interactions and being known as an asshole, in my opinion.

I see it on here allll the time. Someone makes an assertion. Another poster posts a thread that thoroughly disproves it. First poster disappears. Hardly an ever, “Oops. I was wrong once before. This makes twice.” Simply slinks away. I’m guilty of it occasionally myself although I’ve NEVER been wrong. Haha!

In our personal lives, we see it all the time. On a thread not long ago, a poster posted, “I never apologize to anyone except my wife.” We all know why he apologizes to HER...If wifey ain’t happy, NObody’s happy.” So that almost doesn’t count.

A good friend had a huge blowout with her new roommate where the roommate shouted that she felt completely disrespected by my friend, cried, carried on, and eventually disappeared for hours. Upon returning, she locked herself in her room. My friend knocked on her door, and the roommate started all over again. My friend left her a note this morning that read something like...

“We can work this out. We need to talk. My new refrigerator will be delivered between 1 and 3, just to remind you.” She intentionally kept it short.

I suggested to her last night that her note read, “I am sorry that I hurt your feelings, Cathy. We can work this out. Let’s talk when I get home tonight. Just a reminder than my new fridge is coming between 1 and 3. If that’s a problem for you, just call me, and I’ll leave work.”

Why does this trained psychologist who counsels others on reasonable communication skills find my suggestion, a good one, something she simply can’t do herself?

I consider my ability to apologize and admit when I’m wrong my greatest strength. Why is it so hard for so many people?

I’d Love if our posters who have trouble with this to tell us why...

Im sorry for posting yet another TLDR. I understand. (See? That wasn’t hard at all.) ;)
Click to expand...

People who are perfect, like me and President Trump, simply never have the opportunity.
 
MaggieD said:
To say I’m sorry? Or I was wrong?

Im at a loss about this. The ability to say these words is often the difference in successful social interactions and being known as an asshole, in my opinion.

I see it on here allll the time. Someone makes an assertion. Another poster posts a thread that thoroughly disproves it. First poster disappears. Hardly an ever, “Oops. I was wrong once before. This makes twice.” Simply slinks away. I’m guilty of it occasionally myself although I’ve NEVER been wrong. Haha!

In our personal lives, we see it all the time. On a thread not long ago, a poster posted, “I never apologize to anyone except my wife.” We all know why he apologizes to HER...If wifey ain’t happy, NObody’s happy.” So that almost doesn’t count.

A good friend had a huge blowout with her new roommate where the roommate shouted that she felt completely disrespected by my friend, cried, carried on, and eventually disappeared for hours. Upon returning, she locked herself in her room. My friend knocked on her door, and the roommate started all over again. My friend left her a note this morning that read something like...

“We can work this out. We need to talk. My new refrigerator will be delivered between 1 and 3, just to remind you.” She intentionally kept it short.

I suggested to her last night that her note read, “I am sorry that I hurt your feelings, Cathy. We can work this out. Let’s talk when I get home tonight. Just a reminder than my new fridge is coming between 1 and 3. If that’s a problem for you, just call me, and I’ll leave work.”

Why does this trained psychologist who counsels others on reasonable communication skills find my suggestion, a good one, something she simply can’t do herself?

I consider my ability to apologize and admit when I’m wrong my greatest strength. Why is it so hard for so many people?

I’d Love if our posters who have trouble with this to tell us why...

Im sorry for posting yet another TLDR. I understand. (See? That wasn’t hard at all.) ;)
Click to expand...

This ex-feminist knows why. She learned the reason why she was so intolerant to others: Not listening:



I am often change my point of view due to realizing new perspectives showing that I was wrong.

But in the internet most of the talks I am in, people who disagree with me rarely stick to the debate subject itself, hardly try to compare arguments and explain why they disagree in a logically way. What most people do is to call you names and then expect themselves to forever disagree because consider you an enemy.

Honestly, I think most people are physiologically and emotionally immature.
 
MaggieD said:
To say I’m sorry? Or I was wrong?

Im at a loss about this. The ability to say these words is often the difference in successful social interactions and being known as an asshole, in my opinion.

I see it on here allll the time. Someone makes an assertion. Another poster posts a thread that thoroughly disproves it. First poster disappears. Hardly an ever, “Oops. I was wrong once before. This makes twice.” Simply slinks away. I’m guilty of it occasionally myself although I’ve NEVER been wrong. Haha!

In our personal lives, we see it all the time. On a thread not long ago, a poster posted, “I never apologize to anyone except my wife.” We all know why he apologizes to HER...If wifey ain’t happy, NObody’s happy.” So that almost doesn’t count.

A good friend had a huge blowout with her new roommate where the roommate shouted that she felt completely disrespected by my friend, cried, carried on, and eventually disappeared for hours. Upon returning, she locked herself in her room. My friend knocked on her door, and the roommate started all over again. My friend left her a note this morning that read something like...

“We can work this out. We need to talk. My new refrigerator will be delivered between 1 and 3, just to remind you.” She intentionally kept it short.

I suggested to her last night that her note read, “I am sorry that I hurt your feelings, Cathy. We can work this out. Let’s talk when I get home tonight. Just a reminder than my new fridge is coming between 1 and 3. If that’s a problem for you, just call me, and I’ll leave work.”

Why does this trained psychologist who counsels others on reasonable communication skills find my suggestion, a good one, something she simply can’t do herself?

I consider my ability to apologize and admit when I’m wrong my greatest strength. Why is it so hard for so many people?

I’d Love if our posters who have trouble with this to tell us why...

Im sorry for posting yet another TLDR. I understand. (See? That wasn’t hard at all.) ;)
Click to expand...

You just don't know enough Canadians;)

If I do something wrong I will say sorry. If my son does something wrong (age 7, I make sure he says sorry) I block someone in an isle at a store I will say sorry, step on someones foot by accident, I will say sorry

Move to Canada and you will be sick of the word in a few months sorry to say
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
You just don't know enough Canadians;)

If I do something wrong I will say sorry. If my son does something wrong (age 7, I make sure he says sorry) I block someone in an isle at a store I will say sorry, step on someones foot by accident, I will say sorry

Move to Canada and you will be sick of the word in a few months sorry to say
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:lamo
 
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