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MaggieD

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The bright light that’s shining on past and present sexual harassment, assault and abuse... of both women AND men... children and young adults... is going to make a difference. Bright lights shining always do. It occurs to me they should have a theme song. Perhaps this?



Oh, play it! Great way to start the morning.

Discussion?
 
The bright light that’s shining on past and present sexual harassment, assault and abuse... of both women AND men... children and young adults... is going to make a difference. Bright lights shining always do. It occurs to me they should have a theme song. Perhaps this?



Oh, play it! Great way to start the morning.

Discussion?


I guess these recent outings of these abusers sends the message that..."We're not gonna take it anymore!"
 
I guess these recent outings of these abusers sends the message that..."We're not gonna take it anymore!"

Funny you are the first to post here. It was meant for you... ;) Really. You’re the one person on this board I thought of when I clicked post. Didn’t want to say that... could be considered a callout I suppose. But you, little sweet thing, are one person I had in mind.
 
I guess these recent outings of these abusers sends the message that..."We're not gonna take it anymore!"

I'm not surprised by how much ****ed stuff has been happening in Hollywood and Washington, but Louis C. K. being outed really messed with my head; I might as well have found out that my grandpa had been doing that stuff. I really hope we don't see any of the other comedic power houses like Stone/Parker or Daniel Tosh revealed to be sex offenders, those guys are my heroes.

I wish I was kidding about that last part.
 
Funny you are the first to post here. It was meant for you... ;) Really. You’re the one person on this board I thought of when I clicked post. Didn’t want to say that... could be considered a callout I suppose. But you, little sweet thing, are one person I had in mind.

Heh. Thanks. :)

But yeah, it's good that more and more people are coming out about their experiences, and exposing the perpetrators. Thankfully, I've never been in a situation where I have been violated in that way, but I'll be damned sure to speak up if that ever happens to me.
 
I'm not surprised by how much ****ed stuff has been happening in Hollywood and Washington, but Louis C. K. being outed really messed with my head; I might as well have found out that my grandpa had been doing that stuff. I really hope we don't see any of the other comedic power houses like Stone/Parker or Daniel Tosh revealed to be sex offenders, those guys are my heroes.

I wish I was kidding about that last part.

Yeah, I was sad about Louis C.K. As well as Kevin Spacey. But I'd rather them have gotten exposed than not at all.

I still have Bill Burr, so it's not all bad. :)
 
I'm not surprised by how much ****ed stuff has been happening in Hollywood and Washington, but Louis C. K. being outed really messed with my head; I might as well have found out that my grandpa had been doing that stuff. I really hope we don't see any of the other comedic power houses like Stone/Parker or Daniel Tosh revealed to be sex offenders, those guys are my heroes.

I wish I was kidding about that last part.

Regarding Stone/Parker I was just thinking about them. Someone was saying here somewhere you shouldn't be joking about father/son sexual abuse and of course I immediately thought of them and one episode of South Park in particular. I hope nothing comes out about them and Tosh either, I also find all of them to be extremely funny.
 
Harassment and abuse begs for open and serious discussions. What we should also discuss is the possible mass hysteria, women coming out because they think the remember something that might have been something.
Victims must have a voice, must speak out. Perpetrators must be exposed. Just lets be rational and reasonable and honest. Lets do some soul searching before we possibly destroy a life.
Not everything we have experienced is harassment. Not everything we experienced was meant as harassment. I have been around for a while. Do I remember everything that happened 30 or 40 years ago? No, either not at all or perhaps not quite factual.
https://www.jimhopper.com/child-abuse/recovered-memories/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/apr/07/sexual-abuse-false-memory-syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome
Sexual abuse and harassment are serious issues and must be discussed, factually.
 
The bright light that’s shining on past and present sexual harassment, assault and abuse... of both women AND men... children and young adults... is going to make a difference. Bright lights shining always do. It occurs to me they should have a theme song. Perhaps this?



Oh, play it! Great way to start the morning.

Discussion?


Theme song?

 
Harassment and abuse begs for open and serious discussions. What we should also discuss is the possible mass hysteria, women coming out because they think the remember something that might have been something.
Victims must have a voice, must speak out. Perpetrators must be exposed. Just lets be rational and reasonable and honest. Lets do some soul searching before we possibly destroy a life.
Not everything we have experienced is harassment. Not everything we experienced was meant as harassment. I have been around for a while. Do I remember everything that happened 30 or 40 years ago? No, either not at all or perhaps not quite factual.
https://www.jimhopper.com/child-abuse/recovered-memories/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/apr/07/sexual-abuse-false-memory-syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome
Sexual abuse and harassment are serious issues and must be discussed, factually.

Completely agree. Remember way back when psychologists were supposedly uncovering repressed childhood memories of sexual abuse? I’m not sure, but I think much of that has been debunked. And, I know it happens, divorcing couples alleging same by their spouse on their children by one or the other parent in order to get a leg up? Imagine the ruined lives...
 
Let me throw out another question.
We do live in a multicultural society. How much does it matter in these discussions?
 
Completely agree. Remember way back when psychologists were supposedly uncovering repressed childhood memories of sexual abuse? I’m not sure, but I think much of that has been debunked. And, I know it happens, divorcing couples alleging same by their spouse on their children by one or the other parent in order to get a leg up? Imagine the ruined lives...

It does happen. And when someone makes false allegations that that against someone it casts doubt on everyone else that has actually when through that.
 
Let me throw out another question.
We do live in a multicultural society. How much does it matter in these discussions?

Hmmm. Like you’re sort of hinting that, in some cultures, sexual harassment, assault and abuse is tolerated, even acceptable? I’d say it shouldn’t matter in the least. It is what it is, and it’s all wrong.
 
Hmmm. Like you’re sort of hinting that, in some cultures, sexual harassment, assault and abuse is tolerated, even acceptable? I’d say it shouldn’t matter in the least. It is what it is, and it’s all wrong.

It doesn't matter to me, for everyone is equal. We can't deny that it matters to those who are brought up in different cultures. American women, most western women, are emancipated and outspoken. That isn't true for all women that are living here. Under the law, we are all the same...or should be. But do all women speak out, can all women speak out, do all women know they are being mistreated or treated unfairly? What happens to the women when they dare to speak up?
 
Heh. Thanks. :)

But yeah, it's good that more and more people are coming out about their experiences, and exposing the perpetrators. Thankfully, I've never been in a situation where I have been violated in that way, but I'll be damned sure to speak up if that ever happens to me.

You were born in a more politically correct environment than I was and probably Maggie was, and that probably spared you from some of the nonsense that was going on 30, 40, 50 years ago. Most of us more seasoned women in the professional world have had to deal with at least uncomfortable interaction with guys on the job if not actual sexual harassment. I have never been sexually assaulted but have definitely been in those uncomfortable situations that would probably be classified as sexual harassment now. (They weren't classified that way then.)

The hard part is separating what is normal interaction between the sexes from what is truly objectionable. Some guy you work with but are not at all interested in asks you out or makes a suggestion that he would like to get to know you a LOT better, i.e. subtle proposition, might come across as creepy and definitely makes you uncomfortable. But a federal offense? Or sexual harassment? No. Not that big a deal unless it has an effect on your options, opportunities etc. within the business. The smart, professional woman handles that kind of thing without making a big deal out of it. You don't make any enemies and you gain respect. (I suspect you would be a woman who would handle it competently. :) )

On the other hand, when there IS real sexual misconduct, real sexual harassment, intimidation, and assault, that needs to be exposed and dealt with as persons who do that kind of thing are dangerous.

All the stuff in the newspapers. . . .I have to wonder which is truly sexual misconduct and which isn't. My instincts tell me there is a lot of both going on.
 
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It doesn't matter to me, for everyone is equal. We can't deny that it matters to those who are brought up in different cultures. American women, most western women, are emancipated and outspoken. That isn't true for all women that are living here. Under the law, we are all the same...or should be. But do all women speak out, can all women speak out, do all women know they are being mistreated or treated unfairly? What happens to the women when they dare to speak up?

I’m going to have to come back to this later. I have a brunch date to get ready for. What an interesting topic! I’ll be back.
 
Let me throw out another question.
We do live in a multicultural society. How much does it matter in these discussions?

Hmmm. Like you’re sort of hinting that, in some cultures, sexual harassment, assault and abuse is tolerated, even acceptable? I’d say it shouldn’t matter in the least. It is what it is, and it’s all wrong.

It should not matter

What a person does to themselves based on their culture is perfectly fine, groping, pinching, touching in a sexual way, kissing without the approval of the other person is assault and against the law (I believe) regardless of "culture".

So the groping of a woman's butt may be acceptable on a train in Italy but it is not acceptable or legal (assault) in North America. Neither is using a position of power to pressure others to engage in sexual acts for career purposes.

I fully support multiculturalism that operates withing the legal and non discriminatory framework of laws within Canada (and the US). A ban on groping women is non discriminatory
 
It doesn't matter to me, for everyone is equal. We can't deny that it matters to those who are brought up in different cultures. American women, most western women, are emancipated and outspoken. That isn't true for all women that are living here. Under the law, we are all the same...or should be. But do all women speak out, can all women speak out, do all women know they are being mistreated or treated unfairly? What happens to the women when they dare to speak up?

Unfortunately just like women who are beaten by their spouses, the effected women do have to speak out and act. Society and the legal system are not set up to police every action that takes place behind closed doors. Society can set up support systems that will help and protect women from the after effects of speaking out/acting on such abuses but they generally have to let people know first who can then help them
 
It does happen. And when someone makes false allegations that that against someone it casts doubt on everyone else that has actually when through that.

Bingo!!! This is the thing I wish all thinking women would understand. God (or nature) made men and women sexually attractive to each other. It's what keeps making us regenerating our species. And we women spend a fortune on hair, nails, clothes, makeup to make ourselves as attractive as we can to somebody. And so it is a major negative when a guy responds to that? Give me a break.

There is a world of difference between the normal attraction, tension, interaction between men and women, and I presume between same sex oriented people, and sexual harassment, assault, etc. When women interpret every suggestive joke, nuance, look, teasing, or even a suggestion that we get better acquainted or whatever as sexual harassment, it so dilutes what should generate real outrage that it creates a kind of 'oh well' mentality. When everybody is guilty, those who deserve to be accused don't look any different from anybody else.

It is simply another version of 'crying wolf.'
 
You were born in a more politically correct environment than I was and probably Maggie was, and that probably spared you from some of the nonsense that was going on 20, 30, 40 years ago. Most of us in the professional world have had to deal with at least uncomfortable interaction with guys on the job if not actual sexual harassment. I have never been sexually assaulted but have definitely been in those uncomfortable situations that would probably be classified as sexual harassment now. (They weren't classified that way then.)

Yeah, I haven't either. At the very most I've gotten inappropriate comments. I mean, I've been in awkward situations before, but they were nowhere near to the degree of being sexual harassment/assault.

The hard part is separating what is normal interaction between the sexes from what is truly objectionable. Some guy you work with but are not at all interested in asks you out or makes a suggestion that he would like to get to know you a LOT better, i.e. subtle proposition, might come across as creepy and definitely makes you uncomfortable. But a federal offense? Or sexual harassment? No. Not that big a deal unless it has an effect on your options, opportunities etc. within the business. The smart, professional woman handles that kind of thing without making a big deal out of it. You don't make any enemies and you gain respect.

Sure. I have been in situations where I myself have overreacted. Like (I don't know if you remember the thread I made a while back), that time my friend kinda kissed me out of nowhere. T But that was a mistake. And I have been offered (not even subtle, just blunt) by some guys if I could be their "buddy" (if you catch my drift). While that was really ****ing awkward and made my face turn into a ripe tomato, I didn't consider that to be bad. Now, if one of those guys had tried to grope me or whatever, then that would be a entirely different story.

On the other hand, when there IS real sexual misconduct, real sexual harassment, intimidation, and assault, that needs to be exposed and dealt with as persons who do that kind of thing are dangerous.

Definitely.

All the stuff in the newspapers. . . .I have to wonder which is truly sexual misconduct and which isn't. My instincts tell me there is a lot of both going on.

Probably so. At least to some extent.
 
Unfortunately just like women who are beaten by their spouses, the effected women do have to speak out and act. Society and the legal system are not set up to police every action that takes place behind closed doors. Society can set up support systems that will help and protect women from the after effects of speaking out/acting on such abuses but they generally have to let people know first who can then help them

True. But we need to emphasize that they need to let somebody know right away. And it has to be the real deal--real sexual harassment, real assault, real rape, real sexual misconduct--and not just people harmlessly goofing around however much we don't appreciate it.

I know one woman who had been dating a guy for awhile until he broke it off. When he started dating another woman, it was THEN that she accused him of sexual misconduct. I do raise my eyebrows in situations like that.

I know another woman who divorced what appeared to be a loving and devoted husband who was suffering from M.S. She immediately started seriously flirting with other guys. He was her second husband. She justified filing for divorce by telling us that 'she found child porn on his computer.' But they continue to share a home--separate bedrooms apparently--and she allows him to keep her young granddaughter all day while she and her daughter are at work????? Do I suspect her accusations of him were fabricated? Yes I do.

And then there are the other occasions in which I have no problem believing the women reporting the misconduct.

But when political correctness raises its ugly head and makes everybody guilty of sexual misconduct, no matter how trivial the 'offense', it gets harder and harder to believe anybody. And that makes it harder for those with legitimate complaints to be taken seriously.
 
Yeah, I haven't either. At the very most I've gotten inappropriate comments. I mean, I've been in awkward situations before, but they were nowhere near to the degree of being sexual harassment/assault.



Sure. I have been in situations where I myself have overreacted. Like (I don't know if you remember the thread I made a while back), that time my friend kinda kissed me out of nowhere. T But that was a mistake. And I have been offered (not even subtle, just blunt) by some guys if I could be their "buddy" (if you catch my drift). While that was really ****ing awkward and made my face turn into a ripe tomato, I didn't consider that to be bad. Now, if one of those guys had tried to grope me or whatever, then that would be a entirely different story.



Definitely.



Probably so. At least to some extent.


I do remember that thread/post. It reminded me why I like you. :)

Now an unsolicited or uninvited or inappropriate kiss does come pretty darn close to the definition of assault. Just as bonking somebody on the head with a newspaper, slapping them for making an insulting comment, shoving them in frustration all technically constitute assault. As does even threatening such actions for that matter.

But it all depends on the the circumstances, context, and degree of harm. I can't say I wouldn't have reacted as you initially did if somebody inappropriately grabbed me and kissed me--most especially somebody I wasn't at all interested in and had never indicated I was open to dating that person or whatever. You also said you forgave that person, apologized for overreaction--I think you probably didn't over react--and you remain friends. He got the message loud and clear that such behavior was unacceptable to you. You kept a friend. That is how almost all such situations like that should end.

All unsolicited kisses are not assault however.

Consider the kissing scene in "The Devil Wears Prada". Andy Sachs was not expecting the kiss from Christian Thompson and she kept telling him why she couldn't do that and he kept kissing her until she finally 'was out of excuses' and initiated the final kiss in that scene. That kiss was not assault. I think intellectually honest people know the difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBqgHjpY4FU
 
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I do remember that thread/post. It reminded me why I like you. :)

Now an unsolicited or uninvited or inappropriate kiss does come pretty darn close to the definition of assault. Just as bonking somebody on the head with a newspaper, slapping them for making an insulting comment, shoving them in frustration all technically constitute assault. As does even threatening such actions for that matter.

But it all depends on the the circumstances, context, and degree of harm. I can't say I wouldn't have reacted as you initially did if somebody inappropriately grabbed me and kissed me--most especially somebody I wasn't at all interested in and had never indicated I was open to dating that person or whatever. You also said you forgave that person, apologized for overreaction--I think you probably didn't over react--and you remain friends. He got the message loud and clear that such behavior was unacceptable to you. You kept a friend. That is how almost all such situations like that should end.

All unsolicited kisses are not assault however.

Consider the kissing scene in "The Devil Wears Prada". Andy Sachs was not expecting the kiss from Christian Thompson and she kept telling him why she couldn't do that and he kept kissing her until she finally 'was out of excuses' and initiated the final kiss in that scene. That kiss was not assault. I think intellectually honest people know the difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBqgHjpY4FU

Well, he didn't 'grab me' per se. It's not like he grabbed me and jammed his tounge into my mouth (If he had done that, I'd probably have been way more justified). He just didn't give me any time to react when he did it, so I kinda freaked out a little bit. I'm fine with people trying to kiss me; I just need time to back away. :lol:

But yeah, that wasn't assault.
 
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