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Amtrak Cascades: A Review. aka American rail, not as bad as some think

EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

No Russian ever called me deplorable
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So I have been doing some special assignments for my boss out in Portland, OR for the last several weeks, the pay was so great I couldn't turn it down, but my car has been in the body shop so I needed another way down, so my brother dropped me off in Portland and I needed a way home.

I considered the Bus, but Greyhound takes longer then I want to, Bolt Bus is very cheap, but it's faster because it only stops at major cities and apparently Tacoma is not a major city, and I didn't want to walk all my bags through Seattle mass transit after doing that in Portland.

Airlines? 140 dollars before I check any bags plus security and all that jazz.

How about Amtrak?

28 dollars coach, Portland Union Station (which is served by Portlands MAX light rail, so easily accessible) to Tacoma Amtrak station, two bags brought with you for no additional charge, coffee shop, bar and dining car, two hours and 15 minutes. perfect.

So this is the Amtrak Cascades train, Cascades is a much different format then most Amtrak routes, so Cascades is a collaboration between Washington Dept of Transportation, Oregon Dept of Transportation, and some help from Transport BC. It runs between Eugene Oregon and Vancouver BC. Farebox recovery ratio (the amount of costs paid by ticket buyers) is 59%, so it's subsidized, but not the worst example in mass transportation, most systems are lucky to recover 20%. The rolling stock are single level cars manufactured by Talgo, a Spanish car maker that builds rail equipment for many of the transit systems in Europe. The Cascades train is capable of operating at 100mph, but since it uses the freight right of way its maximum legal speed is 79mph, and on my trip because of freight traffic we averaged maybe 63 mph. the cars are quiet and due to Talgo's independent suspension system, very smooth. You're allowed to bring two carry on bags, which can be stowed either in overhead bins and larger bags/parcels etc can be stowed in a cabinet at the rear of your car. oversized packages or bags containing restricted items (firearms for example) must be stowed in the baggage car and checked. this service is very cheap compared to the airlines.

Arrival: When you arrive at the station you'll check in at the ticket counter, and be issued your tickets, if you have an existing electronic reservation on your phone you can skip check in. I had a reservation but since I arrived earlier then I thought at the station and just in time for an earlier train the ticket agent canceled my e-reservation and gave my paper tickets for the earlier train. you'll meet the conductor at an access point to the platform where s/he will issue you another ticket with your seat and car assignment and you enter the platform to board your train, that's it! no security, no enhanced freedom from TSA, no bag searches, just get on your train and find your seat.

Ammenities: The Cascades does not have a full service dining car like the regular train, it has instead a Bistro car, where you can purchase light meals like salads or sandwiches, since the longest possible trip on this train is six hours (Eugene to Canada) this isn't really a downside. they serve a variety of local microbrew beers and even some hard liquor cocktails, as well as coffee, newspapers, etc.

Arrival: An announcment is made before each stop, don't miss it, the train stops only long enough to disembark and embark the next set of passengers, it averages maybe 5 minutes a stop. if you fell asleep you've missed your stop. again, just exit the train, and unlike the airports your reception can wait for you right in front of the station.

overall not a bad way to travel, if you're traveling between major cities in the Pacific Northwest Amtrak Cascades is definitely the way to go if you don't have a car.
 
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If that $28 fare was raised to $48 (making the fare subsidy unnecessary) would you have used another form of transit instead? If not, then why do you suppose that fare subsidy is required?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If that $28 fare was raised to $48 (making the fare subsidy unnecessary) would you have used another form of transit instead? If not, then why do you suppose that fare subsidy is required?
Click to expand...

It may have driven me toward Bolt Bus.... although maybe not. because at 48 we're still 100 dollars cheaper then airfare (and I know for a fact Alaska airlines woud've made me check my larger bag that Amtrak allowed as carry on) and the convenience of getting off at Tacoma versus Seattle might've slipped me towards Amtrak.

I don't know the economics though, if you raise fare to 48 then fewer people might ride. and I don't know how the subsidy impacts specific tickets, I'm willing to bet a train between Portland and Vancouver pays for itself.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
So I have been doing some special assignments for my boss out in Portland, OR for the last several weeks, the pay was so great I couldn't turn it down, but my car has been in the body shop so I needed another way down, so my brother dropped me off in Portland and I needed a way home.

I considered the Bus, but Greyhound takes longer then I want to, Bolt Bus is very cheap, but it's faster because it only stops at major cities and apparently Tacoma is not a major city, and I didn't want to walk all my bags through Seattle mass transit after doing that in Portland.

Airlines? 140 dollars before I check any bags plus security and all that jazz.

How about Amtrak?

28 dollars coach, Portland Union Station (which is served by Portlands MAX light rail, so easily accessible) to Tacoma Amtrak station, two bags brought with you for no additional charge, coffee shop, bar and dining car, two hours and 15 minutes. perfect.

So this is the Amtrak Cascades train, Cascades is a much different format then most Amtrak routes, so Cascades is a collaboration between Washington Dept of Transportation, Oregon Dept of Transportation, and some help from Transport BC. It runs between Eugene Oregon and Vancouver BC. Farebox recovery ratio (the amount of costs paid by ticket buyers) is 59%, so it's subsidized, but not the worst example in mass transportation, most systems are lucky to recover 20%. The rolling stock are single level cars manufactured by Talgo, a Spanish car maker that builds rail equipment for many of the transit systems in Europe. The Cascades train is capable of operating at 100mph, but since it uses the freight right of way its maximum legal speed is 79mph, and on my trip because of freight traffic we averaged maybe 63 mph. the cars are quiet and due to Talgo's independent suspension system, very smooth. You're allowed to bring two carry on bags, which can be stowed either in overhead bins and larger bags/parcels etc can be stowed in a cabinet at the rear of your car. oversized packages or bags containing restricted items (firearms for example) must be stowed in the baggage car and checked. this service is very cheap compared to the airlines.

Arrival: When you arrive at the station you'll check in at the ticket counter, and be issued your tickets, if you have an existing electronic reservation on your phone you can skip check in. I had a reservation but since I arrived earlier then I thought at the station and just in time for an earlier train the ticket agent canceled my e-reservation and gave my paper tickets for the earlier train. you'll meet the conductor at an access point to the platform where s/he will issue you another ticket with your seat and car assignment and you enter the platform to board your train, that's it! no security, no enhanced freedom from TSA, no bag searches, just get on your train and find your seat.

Ammenities: The Cascades does not have a full service dining car like the regular train, it has instead a Bistro car, where you can purchase light meals like salads or sandwiches, since the longest possible trip on this train is six hours (Eugene to Canada) this isn't really a downside. they serve a variety of local microbrew beers and even some hard liquor cocktails, as well as coffee, newspapers, etc.

Arrival: An announcment is made before each stop, don't miss it, the train stops only long enough to disembark and embark the next set of passengers, it averages maybe 5 minutes a stop. if you fell asleep you've missed your stop. again, just exit the train, and unlike the airports your reception can wait for you right in front of the station.

overall not a bad way to travel, if you're traveling between major cities in the Pacific Northwest Amtrak Cascades is definitely the way to go if you don't have a car.
Click to expand...

Last Thanksgiving, I traveled from Minnesota to Buffalo, NY via Amtrak. Partially because I hate flying. Not a bad experience. Even slept pretty well on the overnight leg from Chicago (except for that lady who got on at 3 AM in Toledo having a loud conversation on her cell phone).

I will take the train again. Soon, i'm hoping to take a few days to take the Empire Builder out to Seattle.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If that $28 fare was raised to $48 (making the fare subsidy unnecessary) would you have used another form of transit instead? If not, then why do you suppose that fare subsidy is required?
Click to expand...

I would say this though, unlike other amtrak routes, you in Texas aren't paying for it. only WA, OR, and BC pays for it, they hire out Amtrak to provide the crew and use their station and ticketing system, my guess is AMTRAK makes money on it, they're only contractors, the local residents are the ones paying the bill on the subsidy...
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I would say this though, unlike other amtrak routes, you in Texas aren't paying for it. only WA, OR, and BC pays for it, they hire out Amtrak to provide the crew and use their station and ticketing system, my guess is AMTRAK makes money on it, they're only contractors, the local residents are the ones paying the bill on the subsidy...
Click to expand...

AMTRAK loses money and has since its inception.

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/amtraks-world-class-losses

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amtraks-losses-widen-in-fiscal-2015-1449032400
 
rocket88 said:
Last Thanksgiving, I traveled from Minnesota to Buffalo, NY via Amtrak. Partially because I hate flying. Not a bad experience. Even slept pretty well on the overnight leg from Chicago (except for that lady who got on at 3 AM in Toledo having a loud conversation on her cell phone).

I will take the train again. Soon, i'm hoping to take a few days to take the Empire Builder out to Seattle.
Click to expand...

when I was in middle school we did a family trip to Disney land and took the Coast Starlight train to LA from Tacoma. It was a great experience, but the cars are nowhere near as good. the Amtrak superliner (the double deck cars) have a traditional fixed axle shake a lot compared to the Talgo cars on Cascades Still good, but not as good IMO.

Never rode The Empire Builder but it should be the same cars as I rode in California on the Starlight
 
ttwtt78640 said:
AMTRAK loses money and has since its inception.

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/amtraks-world-class-losses

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amtraks-losses-widen-in-fiscal-2015-1449032400
Click to expand...

amtrak as a whole does, but remember it's like the post office, it's mandated to provide a lot of rural coverage, and rural coverage is subsidized on all forms of transportation, like Essential Air, roads, etc


and like I said, the train I'm talking about makes over 50% recovery and the subsidy for THAT ONE PARTICULAR ROUTE is payed for by local taxpayers and not nationally like most amtrak subsidized routes. The truth is, very few forms of transit with national coverage make profit, the infrastructure is expensive, the market price for tickets is low, there's a lot of reasons, that's not an excuse to subsidize every money loser, but there is some social value in have a developed infrastructure in rail transport. for example after 9/11 when national security grounded all commercial traffic for several days, many stranded travelers used Amtrak to get home.
 
Amtrak relies on the Northeast Corridor to be profitable and subsidize all the other lines. It's the only line to churn a profit, hence the $50+ cost each way to go from DC to NYC if you book weeks out. I took it from DC to Philly a while back and booked in advance, cost $80 round trip.
 
digsbe said:
Amtrak relies on the Northeast Corridor to be profitable and subsidize all the other lines. It's the only line to churn a profit, hence the $50+ cost each way to go from DC to NYC if you book weeks out.
Click to expand...

Well Amtrak in the Northeast has a big advantage, they purchase an entire right of way from Boston to DC and can run a train at 120 mph.

see in the US there's a maximum speed limit of 79mph on most mainlines because of freight trains, which limits the ability of rail to compete with airlines. the smaller geographic footprint of the NE plus the high population volume plus the exclusively owned mainline for 120+ travel allows amtrak to be very successful there.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Well Amtrak in the Northeast has a big advantage, they purchase an entire right of way from Boston to DC and can run a train at 120 mph.

see in the US there's a maximum speed limit of 79mph on most mainlines because of freight trains, which limits the ability of rail to compete with airlines. the smaller geographic footprint of the NE plus the high population volume plus the exclusively owned mainline for 120+ travel allows amtrak to be very successful there.
Click to expand...

That doesn't take away from the fact that the NEC is the only line to run a profit with the rest receiving fare subsidy. You really don't see fast speeds along the line unless you pay for the Acela train which can easily top $300 round trip between DC and NYC.
 
I took Amtrak from Savannah to DC then a few days later from DC to NY. I liked the trip. Allowed me to sleep. Also boarding and deboarding was quick and easy.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If that $28 fare was raised to $48 (making the fare subsidy unnecessary) would you have used another form of transit instead? If not, then why do you suppose that fare subsidy is required?
Click to expand...

Because it's a comparable subsidy for roads?
Less pollution, increased capacity.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
If that $28 fare was raised to $48 (making the fare subsidy unnecessary) would you have used another form of transit instead? If not, then why do you suppose that fare subsidy is required?
Click to expand...

Actually the Washington portion of Cascade Service only recovered 42% of costs from tickets in 2016 so that $28 fare would be $66.75 if the passenger was paying all the freight:

https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyr...AmtrakCascadesAnnualPerformanceReport2016.pdf

Notice how ridership peaked in 2011, the primary reason being that for years landslides kept cancelling trains for many days at a time due to disturbing the right of way and near right of way with construction and excessive safety rules that had them cancelling everything for I think it was 72 hours after any slide to make sure that it was done moving....freight trains would roll (a lot of times the slides never touched the tracks so BNSF would roll constantly) but Passenger trains were not allowed. Eventually people stopped trusting that the trains would run so they stopped planning to ride the train. The safety rule has been changed, and all parties finally got their act together to deal with the landslide issue. The hope is that the passengers will come back eventually but this is a good lesson in how the failure to perform has consequences.
 
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digsbe said:
That doesn't take away from the fact that the NEC is the only line to run a profit with the rest receiving fare subsidy. You really don't see fast speeds along the line unless you pay for the Acela train which can easily top $300 round trip between DC and NYC.
Click to expand...

Actually it does not, Amtrak runs at a profit only because of the way they keep the books (for instance the cost of the cars and locomotives are never accounted for, they get paid for separately, only maintenance is factored in). A hefty portion of the national subsidy every year goes into the NEC maintenance as well as fees paid by the commuter train operators their services being largely subsidized with tax money as well and now states are directly contributing because the NEC has gotten so bad that their trains increasingly suffer service disruptions, .

The NEC is a wreck, partly because Amtrak has done a poor job of maintenance with the money they have had available and partly because no where near enough money has been spent trying to keep it up over many decades. A particular problem at the moment is Penn Station which is owned by Amtrak, years of not keeping the tracks up have lead to many failures recently, so now there is finally a crash program to do the work but because so much needs to be done so fast because the station is proven now to not be safe many trains have needed to be cancelled over this summer, and more is to come.

http://www.nec-commission.com/five-...Northeast Corridor Five-Year Capital Plan.pdf

https://www.metro.us/news/local-news/new-york/amtraks-penn-station-repairs-complete-more-way
 
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