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This is why our healthcare system is messed up...

MaggieD

MaggieD

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John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
 
MaggieD, Sorta same type healthcare experience, albeit on a much lower scale. I have occasionally had a clogged ear after showers. Hard to clear the water in the ear and it never lasted more than a few days. Then there would be a yawn or a successful ear clearing procedure(hold your nose and blow). Anyway a few weeks ago, got the clogged ear again, (think cone of silence). After too long saw my primary for an unrelated issue and asked him to have a look. He says use the OTC ear cleaning kit. Consists of wax dissolve solution and a bulb to flush after. That did not work. Saw him again specifically for the ear, had his assistant apply similar solution and then use a battery operated vacuum attachment. “Can you hear now?” “Huh!”
Found a nearby Ears Nose & Throat practice and booked an appointment. Two weeks later, see the ear Dr and he is able to remove the wax. He suggests seeing him again in anywhere from four months to one year and recommends a hearing test. This is done by the same practice in another part of the building. Back to the waiting room, short wait and the audiologist comes out and we go upstairs. As we are going, she is explaining something called an ABN form which I will need to sign before we can proceed. Basically states that if Medicare declines to pay, then I will pay. I ask what the procedure will cost, $ 87.00 is the answer. I tell the doctor: “look I am 65 years old, the other doctor just improved my hearing exponentially, I concede that I do to hear as well as I did when I was twenty, but if I change my mind, I will keep you in mind, have a pleasant day!” What a revenue crock of poop!
 
MaggieD said:
John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I forgot the hard numbers, but something like 90% of all medical expenses the average person typically goes through occur during the last two years of life.
 
MaggieD said:
John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

In my experience this is how surgeons are, they want to cut, doing operations is their happy time.

This is based off of my nose cutter and my wife's GI cutter.

2rzukw3.gif
 
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So they ordered the wrong test and are billing the insurance company for it. In the real word you don’t bill for your errors. The insurance co should reject the bill and force the hospital to pay it, of course somewhere the patient signed boilerplate agreeing to be responsible.

A mass in the upper left lobe is usually cancer, so I’d go with the cutter. If he gets five more years, I’d call it a win.
 
MaggieD said:
John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Get a second opinion, from someone other than a surgeon.
 
Rexedgar said:
MaggieD, Sorta same type healthcare experience, albeit on a much lower scale. I have occasionally had a clogged ear after showers. Hard to clear the water in the ear and it never lasted more than a few days. Then there would be a yawn or a successful ear clearing procedure(hold your nose and blow). Anyway a few weeks ago, got the clogged ear again, (think cone of silence). After too long saw my primary for an unrelated issue and asked him to have a look. He says use the OTC ear cleaning kit. Consists of wax dissolve solution and a bulb to flush after. That did not work. Saw him again specifically for the ear, had his assistant apply similar solution and then use a battery operated vacuum attachment. “Can you hear now?” “Huh!”
Found a nearby Ears Nose & Throat practice and booked an appointment. Two weeks later, see the ear Dr and he is able to remove the wax. He suggests seeing him again in anywhere from four months to one year and recommends a hearing test. This is done by the same practice in another part of the building. Back to the waiting room, short wait and the audiologist comes out and we go upstairs. As we are going, she is explaining something called an ABN form which I will need to sign before we can proceed. Basically states that if Medicare declines to pay, then I will pay. I ask what the procedure will cost, $ 87.00 is the answer. I tell the doctor: “look I am 65 years old, the other doctor just improved my hearing exponentially, I concede that I do to hear as well as I did when I was twenty, but if I change my mind, I will keep you in mind, have a pleasant day!” What a revenue crock of poop!
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons I have concierge service. I pay monthly and they are motivated to NOT see me by fixing my ills.
 
chuckiechan said:
So they ordered the wrong test and are billing the insurance company for it. In the real word you don’t bill for your errors. The insurance co should reject the bill and force the hospital to pay it, of course somewhere the patient signed boilerplate agreeing to be responsible.

A mass in the upper left lobe is usually cancer, so I’d go with the cutter. If he gets five more years, I’d call it a win.
Click to expand...

Get a second or third opinion and tests to be sure and see if there are more options first, that would be my call. Better still would be to get all of them together to hash out what is going on. I find professionals of any stripe tend to perform better if they are being observed by their peers.
 
Long story short 16 years my husband had a bad cough.

Chest x-ray showed he had spots on his lungs the technologist diagnosed as cancer originating from another part of his body.
His Doctor gave him less than a year to live.

He was then sent to a cancer surgeon who decided to operate and take a lung sample because he did not agree with diagnosis but needed to examine the tissue.

Turns out my husband had histoplasmosis which is a fungus infection in the lungs.
The fungus is sometimes inhaled from bird droppings or bat droppings. My husband had helped helped his nephew tear down and rebuild part of an old farm house about 7 months before and they think that’s is where he picked up the fungus. He needed several months of medication but thankfully he recovered and we are very thankful the cancer surgeon found the cause of his lung problem and that it was not cancer.
 
MaggieD said:
John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

At what point in life do we quit doing these type of procedures on a person? Cold I know, but I've seen so many resources thrown down the drain towards the end of life without improving and in some cases harming the final months. Not the fellow ought not be diagnosed, but then what?
 
Winchester said:
At what point in life do we quit doing these type of procedures on a person? Cold I know, but I've seen so many resources thrown down the drain towards the end of life without improving and in some cases harming the final months. Not the fellow ought not be diagnosed, but then what?
Click to expand...

I’m with you. He’s got an active life right now. Goes to the gambling boat every other DAY. Lives alone. Happy.

My head is here... if it is indeed a cancer, no biopsy... I wouldn’t be doing the pulmonary test because I wouldn’t be getting the surgery... I wouldn’t take chemo. Until you’ve experienced chemo, you can’t even I,AGINE how hard it is on a body. And he’s 89 years old. My deuthers, if it were me, would be to take immunotherapy if available after radiation which would be stressful enough on his little old self.

It might buy him feel-good time.

But it’s not my decision. Sue and I will relay realistic info to him... might need rehab after surgery. May not be the laparoscopic way the doc thinks it will. (If we asked him to ONLY do it laparoscopically or not at all? He wouldn’t attempt it.) He doesn’t really know... if lymph nodes are involved, forget surgery. Even if not, the surgery would be ridiculous in my opinion. He’ll probably end up in rehab, assisted living at least. And may or may not have one more quality day in his life after surgery.

It’s all about money. And, right now? John is an ATM.
 
minnie616 said:
Long story short 16 years my husband had a bad cough.

Chest x-ray showed he had spots on his lungs the technologist diagnosed as cancer originating from another part of his body.
His Doctor gave him less than a year to live.

He was then sent to a cancer surgeon who decided to operate and take a lung sample because he did not agree with diagnosis but needed to examine the tissue.

Turns out my husband had histoplasmosis which is a fungus infection in the lungs.
The fungus is sometimes inhaled from bird droppings or bat droppings. My husband had helped helped his nephew tear down and rebuild part of an old farm house about 7 months before and they think that’s is where he picked up the fungus. He needed several months of medication but thankfully he recovered and we are very thankful the cancer surgeon found the cause of his lung problem and that it was not cancer.
Click to expand...

You can’t imagine what a miracle that was... I am so happy for you both.
 
MaggieD said:
John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Do you know why Emergency Rooms run blood tests on virtually every patient that comes in incurring thousands of dollars in lab costs that are then billed to insurance companies?

Because if the patient comes in for a cold, they treat a cold, and find out later there was a greater problem, the ER doctor gets sued. His contracted coop gets sued. The hospital gets sued. The nurse gets sued. The admissions rep gets included int he suit. The attending physician gets sued. The head nurse gets sued. Anyone else that could have come into contact with the individual that might possibly have had a cause to maybe see something else wrong gets attached to the lawsuit. Then, every time any one of those individuals applies for a job, attempts to get on an insurance panel, or seeks credentialing with a hospital they have to provide documentation explaining why they have been engaged in a lawsuit, regardless of whether or not the lawsuit was thrown out.

MAYBE Johns doctors were trying to milk the case for fun and profit, though I suspect they probably have plenty of work. More likely...they were following procedures put in place because if they did less than and he developed cancer anytime in the next few years they will be subject to lawsuit for not doing a thorough enough job. But it COULD be just excessive.
 
MaggieD said:
I’m with you. He’s got an active life right now. Goes to the gambling boat every other DAY. Lives alone. Happy.

My head is here... if it is indeed a cancer, no biopsy... I wouldn’t be doing the pulmonary test because I wouldn’t be getting the surgery... I wouldn’t take chemo. Until you’ve experienced chemo, you can’t even I,AGINE how hard it is on a body. And he’s 89 years old. My deuthers, if it were me, would be to take immunotherapy if available after radiation which would be stressful enough on his little old self.

It might buy him feel-good time.

But it’s not my decision. Sue and I will relay realistic info to him... might need rehab after surgery. May not be the laparoscopic way the doc thinks it will. (If we asked him to ONLY do it laparoscopically or not at all? He wouldn’t attempt it.) He doesn’t really know... if lymph nodes are involved, forget surgery. Even if not, the surgery would be ridiculous in my opinion. He’ll probably end up in rehab, assisted living at least. And may or may not have one more quality day in his life after surgery.

It’s all about money. And, right now? John is an ATM.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.

At 89, I would not go through any treatments. I would just want to made comfortable as the cancer progressed.
I am not even sure I would go through major cancer treatments now and I am not yet 70.
 
MaggieD said:
You can’t imagine what a miracle that was... I am so happy for you both.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much we are very happy and thankful too for the miracle and the lease on life.
 
MaggieD said:
John is 89 years old. He has had a chronic cough for months. The doc ordered a chest X-ray. They found something suspicious. So they ordered a chest CAT scan. He was to meet with a doc we all thought was an oncologist. No, he met with a surgeon who told him the CAT scan was suspicious. Gave him a surgical option IF the full body PET scan he ordered today scan with contrast lights up.

In the meantime, the surgeon explained his surgery option, said the incision would be about two inches long, probably. Although he could have to break several ribs and make a much larger incision. THAT he passed along when I questioned him. Routine he said. He also ordered a pulmonary function test to see if he could survive having a lobe removed. Let him know he’d have to see a cardio specialist for an OK for surgery if he chose that option. And also have a needle biopsy.

I asked the doc why, if they didn’t have any results, they didn’t do the CAT scan with contrast. A definitive test. And why John was meeting with HIM, a surgeon, instead of an oncologist, after the PET scan. Also asked why the PET scan wasn’t simply ordered without a dr visit. He had no good answer and was uncomfortable.

My cousin and I were with him and the doc saw us as not approving of the way it was being handled, I’m sure. But John went right along with the program. It wasn’t our call.

So, a noncontrast CAT scan proved absolutely nothing. A CAT with contrast would have lit it up if it was cancer. The doc is putting him thru a PET scan he wouldn’t have needed. And a pulmonary function test he won’t need it he doesn’t choose surgery. All the while meeting with the surgeon...you know, the guy with the hammer who sees John as a nail.

And even if the PET scan lights up, they will want to do a needle biopsy, a very painful procedures, on an 89 year old man who has a relatively good quality of life.

I think it’s a huge waste of money and poor patient care.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I think it is all about make money, like everything else. And it is easier make money from scared people.
 
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