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Thinking about an MBA

SheWolf

SheWolf

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Is anybody here an MBA?

Or does anybody have an opinion on the MBA?
 
Advanced education is always worthwhile. It provides experience with a variety of people, teamwork skills, presentation skills, critical thinking skills and many other benefits. It's not just about a piece of paper to increase wage, or prestige, or even knowledge in the field.
 
ecofarm said:
Advanced education is always worthwhile. It provides experience with a variety of people, teamwork skills, presentation skills, critical thinking skills and many other benefits. It's not just about a piece of paper to increase wage, or prestige, or even knowledge in the field.
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I also wonder how going for the MBA is different from and undergrad. Is the class style a lot different? Is the homework and exam structure different?
 
Some of my friends have regretted spending the extra money on their MBA. Because they ended up with jobs that only required a bachelor's. It depends on what you want to do.
 
I agree with eco that education is always a positive. As to whether it will help you reach particular goals depends on what those goals are. It may or may not improve your income. That depends on your career field and where you are in it right now.
 
What's motivating you, and where are you in your career/schooling?
If in school still, an MBA is fine. If out of school, I think the value drops, I'd be more cautious about where I would invest that time/$, the older the less value (obviously). If you're in management and want to go further, in some companies/industries it can be a good play (as long as you have about 10+ years left in work?).
Education is a good use of time, but there are hopefully later in life, many good things you can do with your time, and there is an opportunity cost. If you can juggle work and family and school...heck why not. Otherwise, i think it's good to evaluate it first.

And if you're starting a business and already known in industry, it's got next to no relative value when you factor in opportunity cost. You can hire one or three if you think you need one. Although as ecofarm alludes to, if you do go MBA, don't treat it like a piece of paper, because that's a choice. Milk the entire experience, get to know the faculty and other students and get involved, even if you're not a people-person. The time and energy having good connections can save is sometimes more valuable than the degree itself. Having fun while doing it will be a cherry on top.
 
SheWolf said:
I also wonder how going for the MBA is different from and undergrad. Is the class style a lot different? Is the homework and exam structure different?
Click to expand...

From my experience (MSc, PhD(c)) and conversations with other grad students, these are the main differences:

1. No multiple choice tests. It's all essay.
2. A group project in every class.
3. A presentation, generally powerpoint, (to the class, based on paper written by oneself) required in every class.
4. Massive amounts of reading.

It's highly focused on understanding (as opposed to memorization), formal academic writing ability, teamwork, presentation ability and ability to communicate complex concepts. It requires critical thinking in a way beyond undergrad work.

Undergrad "homework" is expected to be 3 hours for every hour of class. Grad "homework" is 6 (? not sure) hours per hour of class. 12 credit hours is full-time undergrad, 9 credit hours is full-time grad.
 
SheWolf said:
I also wonder how going for the MBA is different from and undergrad. Is the class style a lot different? Is the homework and exam structure different?
Click to expand...

Yes, you will have much more sophisticated projects to work on. It is handy if you are already in the business sector because you can then use your real world job as the basis of the projects you work on and then take those projects back to your job and apply them in the real world.

I don't have an MBA but I have had people who worked for me who had one or were taking classes for it and that is what they did.
 
Mach said:
What's motivating you, and where are you in your career/schooling?
If in school still, an MBA is fine. If out of school, I think the value drops, I'd be more cautious about where I would invest that time/$, the older the less value (obviously). If you're in management and want to go further, in some companies/industries it can be a good play (as long as you have about 10+ years left in work?).
Education is a good use of time, but there are hopefully later in life, many good things you can do with your time, and there is an opportunity cost. If you can juggle work and family and school...heck why not. Otherwise, i think it's good to evaluate it first.

And if you're starting a business and already known in industry, it's got next to no relative value when you factor in opportunity cost. You can hire one or three if you think you need one. Although as ecofarm alludes to, if you do go MBA, don't treat it like a piece of paper, because that's a choice. Milk the entire experience, get to know the faculty and other students and get involved, even if you're not a people-person. The time and energy having good connections can save is sometimes more valuable than the degree itself. Having fun while doing it will be a cherry on top.
Click to expand...

This is good advice. I am thinking about it, but I may not need it. I am actually thinking of changing my career path and getting a new job. I am an accountant considering going from public to industry.
 
MBA is usually designed for after you've got some work experience. At least, the better programs won't admit someone without it. Thus it's usually less cutthroat than undergrad, and most will offer an evening program. There's no question though it opens a wide array of options in various industries. Loans are always a risk, but you can probably get away with not knowing precisely what you want to do with the degree, for now, as it's highly sought after.
 
ecofarm said:
From my experience (MSc, PhD(c)) and conversations with other grad students, these are the main differences:

1. No multiple choice tests. It's all essay.
2. A group project in every class.
3. A presentation, generally powerpoint, (to the class, based on paper written by oneself) required in every class.
4. Massive amounts of reading.

It's highly focused on understanding (as opposed to memorization), formal academic writing ability, teamwork, presentation ability and ability to communicate complex concepts. It requires critical thinking in a way beyond undergrad work.

Undergrad "homework" is expected to be 3 hours for every hour of class. Grad "homework" is 6 (? not sure) hours per hour of class. 12 credit hours is full-time undergrad, 9 credit hours is full-time grad.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this helpful post. This actually sounds a lot better to me than an undergrad.
 
One great thing about grad school: everyone wants to be there. Everyone is interested, motivated and driven to gain knowledge in the field. Everyone wants to talk about stuff from class in social circles. It's not like undergrad classes where half the people are there because their parents forced them.
 
SheWolf said:
This is good advice. I am thinking about it, but I may not need it. I am actually thinking of changing my career path and getting a new job. I am an accountant considering going from public to industry.
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If you have CPA already, i'm a little confused, as not many firms care so much about the master's, maybe a little pay boost. If you have bachelor's, you only need the 30 credits for CPA, which can lead to many industry jobs. At that point, since you'd already be well into a program, you may want to finish the MBA
 
ecofarm said:
One great thing about grad school: everyone wants to be there. Everyone is interested, motivated and driven to gain knowledge in the field. Everyone wants to talk about stuff from class in social circles. It's not like undergrad classes where half the people are there because their parents forced them.
Click to expand...

Sorry if it's like that at UF or whatever, but none do that at my undergrad. People are very passionate about their field. The only difference is not *every* class relates to that, a lot of gen ed requirements.
 
SheWolf said:
Is anybody here an MBA?

Or does anybody have an opinion on the MBA?
Click to expand...

I was torn between an MBA and a Ms ME. In the end, I picked the advanced technical degree. There are a lot fewer American born engineers with post grad degrees than MBA's. But, it was a tough choice nonetheless.
 
ecofarm said:
One great thing about grad school: everyone wants to be there. Everyone is interested, motivated and driven to gain knowledge in the field. Everyone wants to talk about stuff from class in social circles. It's not like undergrad classes where half the people are there because their parents forced them.
Click to expand...

Most of us were already working and had families. No beer bongs. Just long hours in the computer lab, spending three days programming a data compiling graphing routine in FORTRAN that today comes out of a can. I got out in '92, right around the time home-based PC's began being more and more common.
 
chromium said:
Sorry if it's like that at UF or whatever, but none do that at my undergrad. People are very passionate about their field. The only difference is not *every* class relates to that, a lot of gen ed requirements.
Click to expand...

My undergrad (private and public schools) had classes with plenty of people that didn't give a crap about the subject. They considered it a necessary evil for their degree. Some were flippant about classes in general and some were just so about certain classes.

In grad school, there are no flippant students. There are not "this doesn't matter" or "this teacher is a moron" clowns. In grad school, class information is the topic of conversation in social circles (no beer bongs for me after undergrad at a very expensive private school). Everyone is happy to go over a concept, idea or bit of information from class.

As far as student commitment and passion for the subject are concerned, it's different worlds.
 
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SheWolf said:
Is anybody here an MBA?

Or does anybody have an opinion on the MBA?
Click to expand...

I don't but one of my brothers does and I was seriously contemplating getting one-to the point of applying and being accepted into two of the top programs.

When I was in my twenties-the MBA was a hot degree. Lots of my college friends graduated college, worked a couple years, and then pursued an MBA. several were lucky and were able to get their employers (usually big bucks wall street investment banks) to put them through big name MBA programs.

However, according to several friends of mine who have MBAs from the 70s and 80s, the degree is not as valuable these days if you aspire to big time corporate USA. Lots of firms figure MBAs are over priced and figure they can hire a college graduate straight out of school and teach them more about their business than an MBA program will and it will cost the business far less. And remember, unlike law-where you need a law degree in just about every state to practice law and the same with an MD for medicine, there are plenty of extremely successful businessmen who don' have MBA degrees.

My niece graduates Williams in a few weeks with a strong GPA. she was recruited and accepted a job with a top consulting firm. the work hours are expected to be brutal and I asked my brother if she planned on doing the same thing he did-work a couple years and then go the MBA route as he did and he noted its an option but its not nearly as clearcut as it was 30 years ago when he obtained his MBA. She's lucky, she doesn't have student loans to deal with but that is another factor-are you going to make up what it costs-both in terms of tuition AND lost wages-to get that MBA?
 
ecofarm said:
My undergrad (private and public schools) had classes with plenty of people that didn't give a crap about the subject. They considered it a necessary evil for their degree. Some were flippant about classes in general and some were just so about certain classes.

In grad school, there are no flippant students. There are not "this doesn't matter" or "this teacher is a moron" clowns. In grad school, class information is the topic of conversation in social circles (no beer bongs for me after undergrad at a very expensive private school). Everyone is happy to go over a concept, idea or bit of information from class.

As far as student commitment and passion for the subject are concerned, it's different worlds.
Click to expand...

you clearly didn't go to a top 20 undergrad. Whining about the teacher i've only seen once, because the guy in his damn 80s kept losing focus. You don't think grad schools ever have a problem with old timers clinging to tenure? The big difference is a lot of PhDs choose a program based on certain professors they'll work on dissertation and research with, but you still can run across *some* instructors you don't care for

Also, in a typical MBA, there's absolutely filler classes that don't transfer well to the specific field of interest, and plenty of people are there just for $, obviously. Some firms even offer a raise upon completion. Not every grad school program exists for pure research and knowledge
 
chromium said:
you clearly didn't go to a top 20 undergrad. Whining about the teacher i've only seen once, because the guy in his damn 80s kept losing focus. You don't think grad schools ever have a problem with old timers clinging to tenure?
Click to expand...

I went to an expensive private university, a community college and a public university on my path to a bachelors. What can I tell you? A class of 30-40 when most people are not passionate is not the same as a class of 10-20 when everyone is passionate. My grad schooling is also diverse, including Europe and the US.

The big difference is a lot of PhDs choose a program based on certain professors they'll work on dissertation and research with, but you still can run across *some* instructors you don't care for
Click to expand...

A PhD applicant must be accepted by a specific professor (not just the school or department) who becomes the committee chair. One must get 4+ additional professors to serve on ones dissertation committee. The profs don't work on research with one, in my experience, they teach classes and help direct research. I'd guess in other fields profs actually research with grad students.

Also, in a typical MBA, there's absolutely filler classes that don't transfer well to the specific field of interest, and plenty of people are there just for $, obviously. Some firms even offer a raise upon completion. Not every grad school program exists for pure research and knowledge
Click to expand...

An MBA environment might not be the same as an MSc. Still, I expect students would be more committed to knowledge in the field.
 
"Filler" classes?!
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't but one of my brothers does and I was seriously contemplating getting one-to the point of applying and being accepted into two of the top programs.

When I was in my twenties-the MBA was a hot degree. Lots of my college friends graduated college, worked a couple years, and then pursued an MBA. several were lucky and were able to get their employers (usually big bucks wall street investment banks) to put them through big name MBA programs.

However, according to several friends of mine who have MBAs from the 70s and 80s, the degree is not as valuable these days if you aspire to big time corporate USA. Lots of firms figure MBAs are over priced and figure they can hire a college graduate straight out of school and teach them more about their business than an MBA program will and it will cost the business far less. And remember, unlike law-where you need a law degree in just about every state to practice law and the same with an MD for medicine, there are plenty of extremely successful businessmen who don' have MBA degrees.

My niece graduates Williams in a few weeks with a strong GPA. she was recruited and accepted a job with a top consulting firm. the work hours are expected to be brutal and I asked my brother if she planned on doing the same thing he did-work a couple years and then go the MBA route as he did and he noted its an option but its not nearly as clearcut as it was 30 years ago when he obtained his MBA. She's lucky, she doesn't have student loans to deal with but that is another factor-are you going to make up what it costs-both in terms of tuition AND lost wages-to get that MBA?
Click to expand...
I deal with the public in my city's business district, and meet a fair amount of finance guys - usually investment bankers, financial analysts, or traders.

Because my kid is studying undergrad finance, I now sometimes chat them up about it. I was blown away to hear some big firms in my city are taking guys right out of undergrad, and tossing them into I-Banking at around 80K to start.

Now they have to have a great G.P.A., but they do go directly into I-Banking at a reasonably decent just-out-of-school salary, with the same opportunity to double & triple their income quickly - just like the traditional M.B.A.s do.

In the '80's when I was looking at grad school, an M.B.A from a reputable school was pretty much de rigueur to get into a decent investment banking firm. It seems no longer. So yeah, something seems to have changed (in I-Banking) lately, at least in my city.

(these guys did claim an M.B.A. was good to get for higher levels as time went on, but it was not required for entry - or even at all)
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't but one of my brothers does and I was seriously contemplating getting one-to the point of applying and being accepted into two of the top programs.

When I was in my twenties-the MBA was a hot degree. Lots of my college friends graduated college, worked a couple years, and then pursued an MBA. several were lucky and were able to get their employers (usually big bucks wall street investment banks) to put them through big name MBA programs.

However, according to several friends of mine who have MBAs from the 70s and 80s, the degree is not as valuable these days if you aspire to big time corporate USA. Lots of firms figure MBAs are over priced and figure they can hire a college graduate straight out of school and teach them more about their business than an MBA program will and it will cost the business far less. And remember, unlike law-where you need a law degree in just about every state to practice law and the same with an MD for medicine, there are plenty of extremely successful businessmen who don' have MBA degrees.

My niece graduates Williams in a few weeks with a strong GPA. she was recruited and accepted a job with a top consulting firm. the work hours are expected to be brutal and I asked my brother if she planned on doing the same thing he did-work a couple years and then go the MBA route as he did and he noted its an option but its not nearly as clearcut as it was 30 years ago when he obtained his MBA. She's lucky, she doesn't have student loans to deal with but that is another factor-are you going to make up what it costs-both in terms of tuition AND lost wages-to get that MBA?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen many CFOs or CEOs with just an undergrad. They usually have a MBA or some other credential.
 
Chomsky said:
I deal with the public in my city's business district, and meet a fair amount of finance guys - usually investment bankers, financial analysts, or traders.

Because my kid is studying undergrad finance, I now sometimes chat them up about it. I was blown away to hear some big firms in my city are taking guys right out of undergrad, and tossing them into I-Banking at around 80K to start.

Now they have to have a great G.P.A., but they do go directly into I-Banking at a reasonably decent just-out-of-school salary, with the same opportunity to double & triple their income quickly - just like the traditional M.B.A.s do.

In the '80's when I was looking at grad school, an M.B.A from a reputable school was pretty much de rigueur to get into a decent investment banking firm. It seems no longer. So yeah, something seems to have changed (in I-Banking) lately, at least in my city.

(these guys did claim an M.B.A. was good to get for higher levels as time went on, but it was not required for entry - or even at all)
Click to expand...

That is really odd. I wonder why that industry is changing so much, and what is the reason behind the trend?

I am not in finance, but this might be something to think about...
 
I like the discussion in the thread. You all have given me really good advice so far.

I agree with Eco that furthering your education is usually not a waste of time or money.

I also think I need to be aware how an MBA would benefit me.


I am still interested in it, and I am interested in changing my career path somewhat. I will indicate in my coming interviews that I am interested in an MBA, but I am not going to commit to it unless the company thinks it would benefit them or me.
 
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