• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

When does being mistaken become lying?

holbritter

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
21,229
Reaction score
10,216
Location
NY
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?

To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.

The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.

I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.

So, when does being mistaken become lying?
 
When dealing with the internet and communicating through a message board system, I think right off the bat you lack any reason to not be read up, or educated on a point of view or opinion. But ignorance is forgivable, hell I've made mistakes and errors in judgement before and admitted as much when I've been wrong on a subject matter. Dishonesty occurs when someone is given demonstrable proof that contradicts someone's claim, but that person continues to expose the incorrect statement.

For instance, if a democrat said "Hilary Clinton committed no wrong doing with having classified emails on a personal server" could be ignorant on the laws regarding classified materials. If they continue to have this opinion after being shown the laws and statutes that shows Clinton illegally had classified information on a personal server then they are dishonest. Another example can be someone stating ignorantly that Trump didn't fraudulently steal from veterans with Trump University. But if they continue to hold this belief despite being shown evidence to the contrary then they are dishonest.
 
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?
To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.
The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.
I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.
So, when does being mistaken become lying?

Most people make reasonable accommodations on their definition of lying for people who honestly meant to tell the truth but were simply mistaken. I assume this is at least somewhat directed towards criticism of Trump, which in his case we have someone who spits objective lies every time he gets in front of a camera. Yes, it's possible he believes a lot of it, but if you continuously shoot from the hip and don't bother to check the validity of your statements at some point you need to be held responsible for them. I'd say you've crossed the line of reasonable accommodation for mistakes when you constantly use those "mistakes" to your political advantage and never come back to set the record straight or apologize for misleading people.

Lying to get what he wants is what Trump was born and raised to do, he knows nothing else. Should someone who's lied literally thousands of times over the past 18 months still be given the benefit of the doubt that he really didn't mean to mislead?
 
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?

To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.

The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.

I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.

So, when does being mistaken become lying?

Some people just need a life, don't let their issues become yours.
 
Most people make reasonable accommodations on their definition of lying for people who honestly meant to tell the truth but were simply mistaken. I assume this is at least somewhat directed towards criticism of Trump, which in his case we have someone who spits objective lies every time he gets in front of a camera. Yes, it's possible he believes a lot of it, but if you continuously shoot from the hip and don't bother to check the validity of your statements at some point you need to be held responsible for them. I'd say you've crossed the line of reasonable accommodation for mistakes when you constantly use those "mistakes" to your political advantage and never come back to set the record straight or apologize for misleading people.

Lying to get what he wants is what Trump was born and raised to do, he knows nothing else. Should someone who's lied literally thousands of times over the past 18 months still be given the benefit of the doubt that he really didn't mean to mislead?

No, I wasn't really referring to Trump, well except the one post where someone was bent about him lying about what the weather was one day, which did get me thinking about it more. But more about the posting on these boards.
 
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?

To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.

The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.

I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.

So, when does being mistaken become lying?
I basically agree with you. Outright lying requires intent to deceive. Being mistaken just means being incorrect, but having the intention of being correct. Where it starts to get a little muddy is when the mistaken person is corrected yet absolutely refuses to accept it. Then, I feel they are virtually lying. Now, granted, sometimes the "correction" is on a completely subjective topic, so there is no right or wrong answer, and that muddies it even a bit more.
 
Last edited:
No, I wasn't really referring to Trump, well except the one post where someone was bent about him lying about what the weather was one day, which did get me thinking about it more. But more about the posting on these boards.
I don't believe Trump lies, per se. I honestly believe he has mental issues that preclude him from knowing the difference, hence in a way it's not fully his fault.
 
When dealing with the internet and communicating through a message board system, I think right off the bat you lack any reason to not be read up, or educated on a point of view or opinion. But ignorance is forgivable, hell I've made mistakes and errors in judgement before and admitted as much when I've been wrong on a subject matter. Dishonesty occurs when someone is given demonstrable proof that contradicts someone's claim, but that person continues to expose the incorrect statement.

For instance, if a democrat said "Hilary Clinton committed no wrong doing with having classified emails on a personal server" could be ignorant on the laws regarding classified materials. If they continue to have this opinion after being shown the laws and statutes that shows Clinton illegally had classified information on a personal server then they are dishonest. Another example can be someone stating ignorantly that Trump didn't fraudulently steal from veterans with Trump University. But if they continue to hold this belief despite being shown evidence to the contrary then they are dishonest.
People admitting a mistake is so rare here at DP that about a year ago I started "Liking" any and every post where someone was adult enough to admit a mistake, even if I fully opposed their point-of-view.
 
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?

To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.

The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.

I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.

So, when does being mistaken become lying?

I always wonder how calling someone a liar isn't an infraction. You can get an infraction for calling someone "son" but not a liar, which is quite a bit worse. I agree with your definition, lying is when the person knows they are wrong and they are purposefully misleading.
 
I always wonder how calling someone a liar isn't an infraction. You can get an infraction for calling someone "son" but not a liar, which is quite a bit worse. I agree with your definition, lying is when the person knows they are wrong and they are purposefully misleading.
If you outright call them a liar you can be infracted. If you say something like "You're lying" you cannot. Labeling the person vs labeling the action, or something like that.
 
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?

To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.

The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.

I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.

So, when does being mistaken become lying?

I don't think they really know what lying really is. A lie requires the "deliberate intent to deceive", or as the dictionary says "an intentional untruth; a falsehood". Calling someone a liar is the same attempt at character assassination as calling someone a racist. It's designed to shine the spotlight on them as a person to rally the troops with emotion rather than facts.

It's more common now because now you don't have to write a coherent argument on the internet, you just rant on calling everyone names until a moderator gets tired of it. For the "normal" people, we just have to put up with it. You can't fix stupid.
 
If you outright call them a liar you can be infracted. If you say something like "You're lying" you cannot. Labeling the person vs labeling the action, or something like that.

Must never be enforced as I've run into dudes that would string liar labels together in multiple posts and they'd still be participating in the thread.
 
I see people every day on here calling people..........

Liars
Cowards
Haters
Racists
misogynists

Screw em!

They would never say it to your face if they met you in a bar.
 
I see calling people liars is very popular around here. Many times it seems the person made a mistake or misquoted something. Why does that make them a liar? Everyone knows there is a difference, correct?

To me, lying is purposely done…..knowing what you are saying is not true or inaccurate. Being mistaken is different, where you believe something to be true or accurate, or even if you remember something differently.

The point being it is not purposely done with the intent to deceive someone.

I don’t see a lot of actual lying going on here. Mistakes or misquotes, but lying? That’s a harsh word and should be used carefully.

So, when does being mistaken become lying?

Usually it happens when someone makes a false claim, is corrected and continues to make the same false claim. That's not a mistake, that's not an error, it's one on purpose.
 
Usually it happens when someone makes a false claim, is corrected and continues to make the same false claim. That's not a mistake, that's not an error, it's one on purpose.

There have been studies done where they showed that people who have been given misinformation and have accepted it 'double down' on the misinformation when the correct information was relayed. What you learn first sticks with you, even if it's wrong.
 
Back
Top Bottom