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Serious Gun Enthusiasts - need your knowledge

Crovax said:
I just bought one for my future father in law on sale from Academy for $169
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SCORE! For use as just home security, it's a bargain.

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holbritter said:
In your opinion and with your knowledge of guns, can you suggest a make and model of a shotgun suitable for a 5'4" woman. Purpose is for defense, not hunting and I don't have a ton of cash to spend. Thanks in advance!
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It has been said, but I will repeat...go with something in 29 gauge. It has plenty of juice, but the recoil is manageable. You can't go wrong with a pump or a single or a double. Very simple guns. I would recommend getting some basic training in safety if you haven't done so already. Most of us shotgun shooters were taught as kids and grew up with it in our hands shooting game. So basic target acquisition isn't that hard.

Anything you get...look for a "youth model." Given your height, it will be much easier to wield. I actually keep a youth model 870 20 in my closet for home defense.


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holbritter said:
In your opinion and with your knowledge of guns, can you suggest a make and model of a shotgun suitable for a 5'4" woman. Purpose is for defense, not hunting and I don't have a ton of cash to spend. Thanks in advance!
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Start with a 20 gauge. Plenty big for short range self defense, has much less kick than a 12 gauge, yet still big enough to put a hole in someones chest.
 
For those shotgunners:

The 12-gauge load most often recommended for home defense is the standard 2 ¾-inch No. 4 buckshot load holding 27 pellets, launched at 1,100 to 1,200 fps. Each pellet is .24-caliber, weighing approximately 20 grains. It's a very effective close-range load.
The standard 2 ¾-inch 20-gauge buckshot load contains 20 No. 3 buckshot pellets, launched at 1,100 to 1,200 fps. These are .25-caliber and weigh slightly more than No. 4 buck. It's also a very effective close-range load. From a cylinder-choked gun, they normally deliver an 11- to 12-inch pattern at 10 yards, and with less recoil than the 12-gauge.
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Why the 20 Gauge is Plenty of Gun for Home Defense | Outdoor Life

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Quick update :) I've taken time and thought about it and I've decided to go for my handgun permit. I take the pre-license course in a couple of weeks, and right after the shotgun defense safety course. The guy who runs the pre-license for handgun permits (required in my county) also runs clinics for handgun safety and use and has offered them to me. :) Thanks again for the feedback. Very useful.
 
holbritter said:
In your opinion and with your knowledge of guns, can you suggest a make and model of a shotgun suitable for a 5'4" woman. Purpose is for defense, not hunting and I don't have a ton of cash to spend. Thanks in advance!
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I'm late to this, but since you haven't mentioned already buying one, I'll throw in my opinio

Virtually any handheld shotgun is suitable for a 5'4'' woman, I've seen girls as young as 8 fire a 12 gauge. It's about form, not strength. as a 5'4'' adult woman anything you buy at the gun store you can handle.

I would look at a mossberg 590, with the 18.5 inch barrel and full under barrel tube mag, carrying 7 rounds. 12 gauge, I've seen people recommend that women get 20 gauge, and while 20 guage is just fine, I don't subscribe to the theory that women need less powerful guns because they're women, 12 gauge is fine, and more ammo is available.

for ammunition, 2 3/4inch shells, 00 Buck, they contain 9 pellets each roughly 1/3 of an inch in diameter.

however I have another recommendation, if you are willing to spend more money, like closer to a grand.

an AR-15 build rifle is a far superior home defense weapon to both a shotgun and a pistol, they are easier to shoot accurately, and can be equipped with rails to mount a flashlight. even better, the 5.56mm NATO cartridge is fired from the barrel at such a high velocity, and the bullet is so light, they will break on hitting most residential walls, reducing the risk of a stray round leaving your house and possibly injuring someone.

I found an ad for a New York SAFE Act compliant AR rifle, now to be NY compliant it has a fixed mag at ten rounds, and reloading quickly won't be an option, but at most you'll get seven rounds out of a shotgun, and NY limits pistol mags to 10 rounds as well, and with very minimal training you'll be much more likely to make those ten in your AR count and hit targets accurately. just submitted for consideration, hope this helps.
RUGER AR-556 5.56mm NEW YORK STATE SAFE ACT LEGAL AR-15 TYPE RIFLE - DD's Ranch


Also you mentioned concern about leaving loaded firearms, the standard for long guns is, you store with a loaded magazine and empty chamber. so my shotgun at my house has the tube full of shells, nothing chambered. if I need a round I need only pump it to be ready. and if you haven't already, set up an old cell phone on a charger, they can still call 911 and if the cell phone is always in the same place and you need to call for help, you'll always have it, like sometimes I forget and leave my phone in my car or a coat pocket or something, but my old flip phone is always on the wall next to my bed.
 
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EMNofSeattle said:
I'm late to this, but since you haven't mentioned already buying one, I'll throw in my opinio

Virtually any handheld shotgun is suitable for a 5'4'' woman, I've seen girls as young as 8 fire a 12 gauge. It's about form, not strength. as a 5'4'' adult woman anything you buy at the gun store you can handle.

I would look at a mossberg 590, with the 18.5 inch barrel and full under barrel tube mag, carrying 7 rounds. 12 gauge, I've seen people recommend that women get 20 gauge, and while 20 guage is just fine, I don't subscribe to the theory that women need less powerful guns because they're women, 12 gauge is fine, and more ammo is available.

for ammunition, 2 3/4inch shells, 00 Buck, they contain 9 pellets each roughly 1/3 of an inch in diameter.

however I have another recommendation, if you are willing to spend more money, like closer to a grand.

an AR-15 build rifle is a far superior home defense weapon to both a shotgun and a pistol, they are easier to shoot accurately, and can be equipped with rails to mount a flashlight. even better, the 5.56mm NATO cartridge is fired from the barrel at such a high velocity, and the bullet is so light, they will break on hitting most residential walls, reducing the risk of a stray round leaving your house and possibly injuring someone.

I found an ad for a New York SAFE Act compliant AR rifle, now to be NY compliant it has a fixed mag at ten rounds, and reloading quickly won't be an option, but at most you'll get seven rounds out of a shotgun, and NY limits pistol mags to 10 rounds as well, and with very minimal training you'll be much more likely to make those ten in your AR count and hit targets accurately. just submitted for consideration, hope this helps.
RUGER AR-556 5.56mm NEW YORK STATE SAFE ACT LEGAL AR-15 TYPE RIFLE - DD's Ranch


Also you mentioned concern about leaving loaded firearms, the standard for long guns is, you store with a loaded magazine and empty chamber. so my shotgun at my house has the tube full of shells, nothing chambered. if I need a round I need only pump it to be ready. and if you haven't already, set up an old cell phone on a charger, they can still call 911 and if the cell phone is always in the same place and you need to call for help, you'll always have it, like sometimes I forget and leave my phone in my car or a coat pocket or something, but my old flip phone is always on the wall next to my bed.
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Thanks! A grand is a bit too much right now, but I'll check out the link. Lots of good info from everyone :)
 
holbritter said:
In your opinion and with your knowledge of guns, can you suggest a make and model of a shotgun suitable for a 5'4" woman. Purpose is for defense, not hunting and I don't have a ton of cash to spend. Thanks in advance!
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This.......

stoeger-coach-gun-661x496.jpg

in 20 Gauge. Simple and effective. She can't mess it up, even under stress.

First barrel number six shot.......second barrel number four buckshot.

Happy days.

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I should add.......

If she's a gun enthusiast and gets a lot of practice.......a pump or automatic shotgun in any gauge can work out well.

A small carbine in .223 or 9mm can work also.

:2usflag:

My suggestion above is for the average woman who probably won't get the practice needed to master a pump or other more complex firearm.

It's best for most women.......not all.

Here's a link.

Coach Guns - Single and Double Trigger Shotguns | Stoeger Industries

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Vox said:
I should add.......

If she's a gun enthusiast and gets a lot of practice.......a pump or automatic shotgun in any gauge can work out well.

A small carbine in .223 or 9mm can work also.

:2usflag:

My suggestion above is for the average woman who probably won't get the practice needed to master a pump or other more complex firearm.

It's best for most women.......not all.

Here's a link.

Coach Guns - Single and Double Trigger Shotguns | Stoeger Industries

:2usflag:
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I view this as condescending towards women, listen if this woman drives a car, she can operate any standard firearm in this country, with minimal practice. guns are not complex devices to use. and the two main pump guns, the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 series were made in an era where police department handed these guns to officers, never required them to shoot the gun and put them in the car, they were made for untrained individuals, they're very forgiving and easy to use designs.

You're introducing unneeded and frankly necessary complexity, she's not going to get two boxes of ammo to keep a coach gun loaded with two shells, she's going to buy a box and put two shells in the gun, if she goes that route, but there's no need to, she's smart enough to work a pump action gun, of that I am sure, and all the advantages of using a pump action 12 way outweigh any prejudice influenced benefits of a two barrel twenty, double guns are great for breaking clays, for home defense you want the greater ammo capacity

and really I think the AR-15 is even better then any shotgun for home defense.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I view this as condescending towards women, listen if this woman drives a car, she can operate any standard firearm in this country.
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Sure.........anybody knows that pushing on the accelerator is exactly like pulling a trigger........and loading ANY firearm is just like putting gas in your car.

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EMNofSeattle said:
...with minimal practice. guns are not complex devices to use. and the two main pump guns, the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 series were made in an era where police department handed these guns to officers, never required them to shoot the gun and put them in the car, they were made for untrained individuals, they're very forgiving and easy to use designs.
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No, not true. Police, due to legal mandates, always train every officer with every firearm.

And not true about pump shotguns, either. Using one at all requires some instruction for the beginner. Using one in a high stress situation requires a lot of training and practice.

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EMNofSeattle said:
You're introducing unneeded and frankly necessary complexity, she's not going to get two boxes of ammo to keep a coach gun loaded with two shells, she's going to buy a box and put two shells in the gun, if she goes that route, but there's no need to, she's smart enough to work a pump action gun, of that I am sure, and all the advantages of using a pump action 12 way outweigh any prejudice influenced benefits of a two barrel twenty, double guns are great for breaking clays, for home defense you want the greater ammo capacity

and really I think the AR-15 is even better then any shotgun for home defense.
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You're right, but the AR requires even more training.

As for the rest of it, this is not about being "smart," it's about familiarity with firearms and having the mental preparation to use one effectively in self-defense.

Most home defense situations will end after one shot is fired or even before that when the gun is seen by the bad guy.

They're looking for easy pickings.......they will get out fast when they find an armed homeowner.

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Concur, Remington or Mossberg 20 gauge pump. Get buckshot for it.

I don't recommend the reduced-recoil "personal defense" loads really.... reduced recoil = less power.


Lots of practice pumping so she don't short-stroke it, and some firing practice.... contrary to popular myth you do have to aim a shotgun. (Well, "point" is the proper terminology but you get what I mean)
 
Vox said:
No, not true. Police, due to legal mandates, always train every officer with every firearm.

And not true about pump shotguns, either. Using one at all requires some instruction for the beginner. Using one in a high stress situation requires a lot of training and practice.

:2usflag:
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These days they don't, there was many years where police training for firearms was almost non existent, and for shotguns may have comprised firing five shots a year.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
These days they don't, there was many years where police training for firearms was almost non existent, and for shotguns may have comprised firing five shots a year.
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Yes, but those muzzle-loaders took a long time to reload.

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Vox said:
Yes, but those muzzle-loaders took a long time to reload.

:2usflag:
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dude I'm talking 1950s, to 1970s. irregardless, OP is perfectly capable of Using a pump action gun, the training time taken to learn to use it is minutes, it's far more important to spend time learning use of force rules. there is no evidence of people who can't quickly learn to use a pump, it's not a complex machine.
 
Goshin said:
Concur, Remington or Mossberg 20 gauge pump. Get buckshot for it.
Lots of practice pumping so she don't short-stroke it, and some firing practice.... contrary to popular myth you do have to aim a shotgun. (Well, "point" is the proper terminology but you get what I mean)
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Exactly. A pump requires "LOTS" of practice. Which was exactly my point in my earlier post.

A double-barrel like the Stoeger will do the job and requires a lot less practice. It all depends on what the intended user wants and how much time they are willing to expend. Some will expend very little. They need to keep it as simple as possible.

I second the caution on accuracy. Some here seem to think that a shotgun requires no marksmanship........but at 15 feet your pattern will be less than six inches in diameter with most shotguns.......so, yes......you can miss unless you are both practiced and cool under stress.

All that adds up to........practice and training (including being mentally ready for the confrontation and being prepared to kill).

That takes some focus and determination and time.

:2usflag:
 
EMNofSeattle said:
dude I'm talking 1950s, to 1970s. irregardless, OP is perfectly capable of Using a pump action gun, the training time taken to learn to use it is minutes, it's far more important to spend time learning use of force rules. there is no evidence of people who can't quickly learn to use a pump, it's not a complex machine.
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Wrong.

Read the above posts.

:2usflag:
 
Vox said:
Exactly. A pump requires "LOTS" of practice. Which was exactly my point in my earlier post.

A double-barrel like the Stoeger will do the job and requires a lot less practice. It all depends on what the intended user wants and how much time they are willing to expend. Some will expend very little. They need to keep it as simple as possible.

I second the caution on accuracy. Some here seem to think that a shotgun requires no marksmanship........but at 15 feet your pattern will be less than six inches in diameter with most shotguns.......so, yes......you can miss unless you are both practiced and cool under stress.

All that adds up to........practice and training (including being mentally ready for the confrontation and being prepared to kill).

That takes some focus and determination and time.

:2usflag:
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I can't really agree. Not entirely anyway.

If she tries both and prefers the dbl-barrel, more power to her.

But proficiency with the pump isn't hard; I had it down pat in short order at age 12, (my first shotgun was a 20ga pump) and I was probably not much bigger or stronger. My son learned to manage a pump at age 10 with an afternoon of practice.

The pump can give you 5-8 rounds instead of 2 before reloading. In a multiple-intruder situation this could be crucial.

Also w/ the double, two barrels means more weight forward, adding to the handling difficulty for a small woman.


So, I think the case against the pump is being overstated. JMO.
 
Goshin said:
I can't really agree. Not entirely anyway.

If she tries both and prefers the dbl-barrel, more power to her.

But proficiency with the pump isn't hard; I had it down pat in short order at age 12, (my first shotgun was a 20ga pump) and I was probably not much bigger or stronger. My son learned to manage a pump at age 10 with an afternoon of practice.

The pump can give you 5-8 rounds instead of 2 before reloading. In a multiple-intruder situation this could be crucial.

Also w/ the double, two barrels means more weight forward, adding to the handling difficulty for a small woman.


So, I think the case against the pump is being overstated. JMO.
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All true......just depends a lot on the people involved and their abilities and dedication (as I stated in my original posts).

Some people will do fine with more complex weapons and some with more simple weapons.

One shot successfully executed is far better than fifty that never got used due to operator error.

:2usflag:
 
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