Spying on your kids

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

Lutherf said:

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

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Ignoring the idea that hacking the kid friend's accounts are illegal, I don't see anything wrong with "spying" on your kids. Spying on the kid's friends? Not only is that way more work, but it goes way beyond NOYB anyway. You can have honor students doing cocaine and slacker kids who don't do anything bad other than not do their homework because they're too busy watching tv/twitch/playing videogames.

Lutherf said:

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

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I have zero shame about this. IMHO if you're not spying your ass off on your teens you're not doing your utmost to parent well.


Just don't get caught.

What?

You want to spy on your kid's friends?

If my kid's a friend of your kid, your ass is grass with me pal! Seriously. You have no right spying on other families. None. And as a father, I wouldn't take that sitting down.

Now that that's over, yes, spy on yours. I encourage it. I'll even claim it's required to do your parental duties. If it's all warranted, of course.

Your kid's safety and your parental responsibilities are first and foremost. All else is subordinate to that.

Goshin said:

I have zero shame about this. IMHO if you're not spying your ass off on your teens you're not doing your utmost to parent well.


Just don't get caught.

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Spoken as if from someone who's raised kids!

Nothing makes one quite as pragmatic in life, as raising a family.

But no spying on other families. Uh-uh. I draw the line there.

Lutherf said:

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

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Ooh, slick.

Nice metaphor for the Trump wiretap story.

You know metaphors break down at some point, right?

Fearandloathing said:

Ooh, slick.

Nice metaphor for the Trump wiretap story.

You know metaphors break down at some point, right?

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They sure do. Sometimes that happens in the first 3 or 4 posts!:lamo

Goshin said:

I have zero shame about this. IMHO if you're not spying your ass off on your teens you're not doing your utmost to parent well.


Just don't get caught.

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I'd figure that if I had to spy on my teen, then I'd have failed in raising her.

When she hit her teens all I could do is stand back and trust I had done as good a job raising her as I could and she was in God's hands.

I can't imagine trying to have any conversation with a teen after they'd found out I'd spied on her. That's a game changer

Fearandloathing said:

I'd figure that if I had to spy on my teen, then I'd have failed in raising her.

When she hit her teens all I could do is stand back and trust I had done as good a job raising her as I could and she was in God's hands.

I can't imagine trying to have any conversation with a teen after they'd found out I'd spied on her. That's a game changer

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We finally found something we disagree upon.

I've got a great kid, but indeed I did spy on him when he 13, I'm glad I did, and what we found was not pretty at all. Enough so, that he was grounded for the entire summer - partially so we could keep an eye on him!

Anyway, the problem got resolved and we moved on as a family. He's now a college student, and while I would not spy on him today, I would do it again if he were 13 and in the same situation again.

Chomsky said:

We finally found something we disagree upon.

I've got a great kid, but indeed I did spy on him when he 13, I'm glad I did, and what we found was not pretty at all. Enough so, that he was grounded for the entire summer - partially so we could keep an eye on him!

Anyway, the problem got resolved and we moved on as a family. He's now a college student, and while I would not spy on him today, I would do it again if he were 13 and in the same situation again.

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I would not know how to have that conversation. "son, I've been spying on you and don't like..."

It's not a matter of agree or disagree, I just wouldn't be able to.

As someone with a similar skill set I have zero problems with spying on or hacking my kids if I feel something isn't right. They aren't quite at that age yet, though.

Hacking your kid's friends however is illegal. Don't do that.

Trust is a great thing. But your primary job as a parent isn't to be their buddy. It is to keep them safe until their brains are developed enough to keep themselves safe.

Chomsky said:

We finally found something we disagree upon.

I've got a great kid, but indeed I did spy on him when he 13, I'm glad I did, and what we found was not pretty at all. Enough so, that he was grounded for the entire summer - partially so we could keep an eye on him!

Anyway, the problem got resolved and we moved on as a family. He's now a college student, and while I would not spy on him today, I would do it again if he were 13 and in the same situation again.

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The problem with trusting your teen, even if you think you have good reason, is many teens are good at presenting an innocent front while at the same time they're hiding some really bad things that need to be addressed by an adult.


When they turn 12, buy them a diary. Find out where they hide it. Read the frack out of that thing. If you find something you need to confront, think up a plausible way you could have found out otherwise and lead them to think that's it.

No shame. All results.

Fearandloathing said:

I'd figure that if I had to spy on my teen, then I'd have failed in raising her.

When she hit her teens all I could do is stand back and trust I had done as good a job raising her as I could and she was in God's hands.

I can't imagine trying to have any conversation with a teen after they'd found out I'd spied on her. That's a game changer

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See above.

Goshin said:

See above.

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Oh, I have no delusions about what teens can get into. I'm just not wired to be able to do that.

Maybe we were different, I don't know but the oldest came to us at about 15 and asked about pot. I wondered is she had, but it was out of my hands. We simply told her to wait till she was older.

I don't know is she remained faithful to that, but she never got in serious trouble and did well in school.

But then what might be different is my daughter is half Asian and she was raised within Asian culture where peer pressure is huge

Fearandloathing said:

I would not know how to have that conversation. "son, I've been spying on you and don't like..."

It's not a matter of agree or disagree, I just wouldn't be able to.

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In my instance: I followed him around doing detective work, until as suspected I found out about his nefarious deeds and soon after caught him red-handed a coupla' blocks from his school!

I assure you the discussion was not, "Dad, you followed me!"

Instead it was, "Oh ****, you caught me! I'm sorry Dad, I'll never do it again! I didn't mean to!".

My spying on him never was mentioned, nor did it ever came into play.

Now if he was older, perhaps it would've. But my wife and I made it very clear that while we respect their privacy, as parents in our house we reserve the right to control and investigate everything in the house, including them and their rooms. We've never had to do it besides that once, but we reserved that right and were very open about this. And I had no problems simply telling the kids that we feel strongly in our parental duties and commitment, and this was part of being a dutiful committed parent.

But I can happily tell you this. I had a birthday just after my son's 18th birthday, and he gave me probably the most cherished thing I ever received. It was a card, and inside he wrote:

"Thanks Dad for kicking my ass those first 18 years. Because if you didn't, I know the world would kick it harder and worse!"

Nothing in my life ever quite hit me like that kid did that day with that card. At that moment my greatest happiness was knowing the kid got it, all the effort I put into raising him had paid-off, and he was on his way! He's a very together and mature young man! I'm proud as hell of him. And he's a natural leader among his friends, and an extremely clean-cut straight-shooter!

I'm glad my kids never gave a reason to where I felt compelled to cross that line, because once you go there IMO one's relationship is permanently altered and not for the better. Same reason I would never ever spy on my wife, ever. With the kids, if I thought their activity/behavior imperiled their life, I'd cross the line, but that's about it.

Fearandloathing said:

I'd figure that if I had to spy on my teen, then I'd have failed in raising her.

When she hit her teens all I could do is stand back and trust I had done as good a job raising her as I could and she was in God's hands.

I can't imagine trying to have any conversation with a teen after they'd found out I'd spied on her. That's a game changer

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Unless you've raised them to know that you reserve the right to spy on them at all times and all their things are a privilege that you deign to allow them to have, lol

Fearandloathing said:

I'd figure that if I had to spy on my teen, then I'd have failed in raising her.

When she hit her teens all I could do is stand back and trust I had done as good a job raising her as I could and she was in God's hands.

I can't imagine trying to have any conversation with a teen after they'd found out I'd spied on her. That's a game changer

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Unless you happen to catch them before doing something stupid that could permanently change their lives.

Winchester said:

I'm glad my kids never gave a reason to where I felt compelled to cross that line, because once you go there IMO one's relationship is permanently altered and not for the better. Same reason I would never ever spy on my wife, ever. With the kids, if I thought their activity/behavior imperiled their life, I'd cross the line, but that's about it.

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better than I could say it.

Who in their right mind would ever think it would be ok to hack into your kids friends accounts to spy on your children? I guess if you are lacking in basic common decency and have no respect for others privacy then you might go down that line. It's not something I would do.

I was very much a free range set them up to succeed and let them go parent. When they were younger they had rules and they learned fast to follow those rules but they were always as loose as I could justify. My kids were taught that they had the tools to succeed, that they are expected to succeed, and if they have any problems come see me, that if I find out after they failed that they failed and they never came after getting help then they and me were going to have a big problem.

Hell No I never spied on my kids, for me it is almost like that nanny cam thing where I say if you dont trust your nanny then get one that you do trust. I would have been appalled to get to the point that I was doing that to my kids. My kids were expected to carry their load, and they were trusted to carry that load that I gave them because they had earned it, I would have taken it as a personal failure if I loaded them up with more than they could handle, which would be the only reason for me to do intensive monitoring......because they were in trouble and did not come to me for help as they had been taught.

What F&L says resonates with me strongly.

Note: as illustration...my taking any interest in what school work they did ended at the end of 8th grade. Once they were in HS this was their load, and I was very annoyed when the computer calls would come that they were not in class because so far as I was concerned this was their problem. But had they not shown up with a report card with acceptable grades all Hell would have broken loose, and everyone was clear on that point.

Fearandloathing said:

I would not know how to have that conversation. "son, I've been spying on you and don't like..."

It's not a matter of agree or disagree, I just wouldn't be able to.

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If you play your cards right early in their life it won't ever come up. Best thing to do is pretend like you know everything that they do whether they're near you or not. Get a few friends to tell you what they see them doing...without letting them know that they are being seen. They'll wonder how you knew what they were doing. Simply say either ":shrug: I'm daddy" or "a little bird told me". Then while they are home listen to what they are doing...then pounce on what they're doing without turning around. (when they're doing something wrong of course) They get so amazed that I didn't even turn around and yet still know what they're doing. I also use the fact that kids are fairly predictable so I essentially know what they're thinking too at times. That gets them ruffled a bit also.

Right now my kids are dead certain that I actually DO know everything they are doing no matter what. This will of course become harder once they're older. That's when the spying will come in and because of the ground work I've laid out I can still use the same ploy.

Ages btw is 9 for the youngest, and the oldest will be 12 in May.

Lutherf said:

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

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No, I wouldn't hack my kid - I'd tell her to hand over phone, laptop, tablet, or whatever it is that I most likely bought. If she is living in my house, it's my responsibility to make sure she is following my rules and if I notice an attitude change, I'm getting to the bottom of it.

Lutherf said:

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

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Very clever!

Lutherf said:

Let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, that you've got a teenager or two and you're noticing some attitude changes. You don't want to breach the trust you have spent so long establishing with your kids but you've got a feeling that things aren't quite right. You happen to be an expert hacker who could, if you wanted to, hack your kid's phone and online history with no possibility of being detected but you're a responsible parent and would never stoop to that level of distrust. You choose, instead, to hack the phones and online history of all your kid's friends just to make sure that they aren't causing any trouble. You figure that if your kids friends are OK then your kids are probably OK. Also, if your kid's messages happen to get caught up in the data collection that's not really something you did and, therefore, it's not spying.....right?

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Kids have a nominal right to privacy.
Meaning that, if I think something is afoot, I'm going to find out, whether they like it or not.

I have the advantage of being a former "bad kid" and know all the tricks.