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Gigafactory in effect

I think the powerwall has some good possibilities, of being able to level out household electrical supply and demand.
 
Now to see how much it drives down the battery prices.


Pretty exciting. Ford is declaring that they think electric cars will outsell gas cars in just 15 years.

Could be that electric cars are the future of driving. Consider the FF 91:

As for performance, the FF 91 can go 378 miles (EPA adjusted) without a charge — the equivalent of a drive from Los Angeles to Silicon Valley with some miles left to spare. “No other electric vehicle can do that,” said Peter Savagian, Faraday’s vice president of propulsion engineering. The car’s battery pack offers 130 kilowatt hours of energy, and the vehicle presents 1,050 horsepower — “an insane amount.”

an "insane amount" that takes the vehicle 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.

The biggest problem:

The company declined to specify the MSRP.

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

But, maybe a "gigafactory" producing batteries just might make the price competitive with gasoline powered cars.
 
One wonders how this technology will effect the nuclear Middle East. They will not be pleased and surely see the writing on the wall.

Gasoline will still be required for much of the world. And cheaper for them as well
 
Could be that electric cars are the future of driving. Consider the FF 91:



an "insane amount" that takes the vehicle 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.

The biggest problem:



If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

But, maybe a "gigafactory" producing batteries just might make the price competitive with gasoline powered cars.

I don't know, people have been saying electric cars are the future of driving for over 150 years, they predate gas engines and both then and now had issues. At one point in time electric cars outsold gas cars, but then this model T thing came along and electric cars have ran behind since.

Oh my 84 dodge has better range than that, with a full tank it can get about 500 miles with a v8 engine and a 900 cfm carb jetted down, but I am not at liberty to discuss how many gallons that tank holds. Prices going down is a good thing for batteries for electric cars, problem is though mass production does not affect supply costs, which would be needed. If they could both ramp up production and find cheaper ways to make equally powerful batteries, they might make a dent in the market.
 
I don't know, people have been saying electric cars are the future of driving for over 150 years, they predate gas engines and both then and now had issues. At one point in time electric cars outsold gas cars, but then this model T thing came along and electric cars have ran behind since.

Oh my 84 dodge has better range than that, with a full tank it can get about 500 miles with a v8 engine and a 900 cfm carb jetted down, but I am not at liberty to discuss how many gallons that tank holds. Prices going down is a good thing for batteries for electric cars, problem is though mass production does not affect supply costs, which would be needed. If they could both ramp up production and find cheaper ways to make equally powerful batteries, they might make a dent in the market.
I once drove my '90 Accord 500+ miles. Driving through Nevada gas stations can be pretty far apart. I was relieved to find an actual town instead of an off ramp marked "no services". The tank only held 15 gallons or so.

Anyway, yes, electric cars have a long way to go before they'll be competitive, but they're gaining. What's needed is better battery technology, and that's advancing.
 
Mass production of NEW or CURRENT technology? I get it that economies of scale might be a factor in having enough batteries on hand, but if that is all there is, why bother? Projecting that more consumers might want an all electric car isn't going to magically make it happen. I hope NV doesn't end up subsidizing yet another boondoggle but I fear it may have....
 
Gasoline will still be required for much of the world. And cheaper for them as well

Batteries don't produce energy, unlike gasoline, so actually the biggest issues we should focus on to prepare are rebuilding our ancient power grid infrastructure and building more power plants.

Gasoline's portability will be a big advantage where the infrastructure, supercharging stations etc., is behind.
 
People have to remember that in addition to electric cars, Musk is also very interested in solar power. The factory in Buffalo for example is producing solar panels. Part of his vision is using solar panels to not only provide energy during the day, but to charge the batteries so that the houses that have the batteries can go through the times the solar panels are not producing and sill use electricity.. For batteries that are used for houses, you don't need the extra energy density that would be required for extending the range of an electric car. I am sure battery technology will change and they will adopt it as it changes.. but you don't need that new technology for the design and vision that Elton Musk has now.
 
I Think Hybrids have a big future, but they need to be series Hybrids.
Series vs Parallel vs Series/Parallel Drivetrains | Union of Concerned Scientists
I could see the energy source for the hybrid being a fuel cell rather than a heat engine, but the energy
would still be carried in a high density hydrocarbon format.

I see that over time, improvements in batteries will eliminate the need for hybrids.... although advancements in fuel cells are intriguing also. I think it will be a long time before the internal combustion engine goes away though. The main issue with going to a hydrogen fuel cell is hydrogen production, it currently is not economical.
 
I see that over time, improvements in batteries will eliminate the need for hybrids.... although advancements in fuel cells are intriguing also. I think it will be a long time before the internal combustion engine goes away though. The main issue with going to a hydrogen fuel cell is hydrogen production, it currently is not economical.
It is easy to carry around hydrogen as a hydrocarbon fuel. and fairly easy to strip off the hydrogen as needed.
As to the economics of making hydrogen, it is not as far off as you think.
sunfire supplies Boeing with reversible solid oxide electrolyser/fuel cell system - Renewable Energy Focus
I think it helps to think of man made hydrocarbons in the same way as we think of batteries,
simply an energy storage device.
it does not "charge" at 100% efficiency, but if the alternative is throwing the energy away,
the efficiency becomes less of an issue.
The shelve life is also a very big advantage, the ability to store energy when seasonal supplies are high,
for use when seasonal supplies are low.
 
It is easy to carry around hydrogen as a hydrocarbon fuel. and fairly easy to strip off the hydrogen as needed.
As to the economics of making hydrogen, it is not as far off as you think.
sunfire supplies Boeing with reversible solid oxide electrolyser/fuel cell system - Renewable Energy Focus
I think it helps to think of man made hydrocarbons in the same way as we think of batteries,
simply an energy storage device.
it does not "charge" at 100% efficiency, but if the alternative is throwing the energy away,
the efficiency becomes less of an issue.
The shelve life is also a very big advantage, the ability to store energy when seasonal supplies are high,
for use when seasonal supplies are low.


The trouble with 'not as far off as I might think' is a lot of these new technologies are not up to commercialization yet, and that is what is needed. With the new nanotechnologies and such, we are getting tantalizing glimpses on what could be.. but until someone manages to actually be able to put it in production, it's just vaporware. I am rooting for it, but there comes a time you have to go and jump in with the technology we have now.... and that is what tesla is doing with the factory. There are so many things that are 'on the verge', that I hope SOME of them come to fruition. The new superconductor technology and better computer controls is making fusion power be closer than ever, but it's not here yet also. I am also interested in seeing ion-flow batteries too , which would be good for storage for stationary batteries (not vehicles), because of the reusablity and storage capacity. The next 5 to 10 years will be very interesting in the energy generation/battery field. It will be interesting to see which technology gets to market first.
 
The trouble with 'not as far off as I might think' is a lot of these new technologies are not up to commercialization yet, and that is what is needed. With the new nanotechnologies and such, we are getting tantalizing glimpses on what could be.. but until someone manages to actually be able to put it in production, it's just vaporware. I am rooting for it, but there comes a time you have to go and jump in with the technology we have now.... and that is what tesla is doing with the factory. There are so many things that are 'on the verge', that I hope SOME of them come to fruition. The new superconductor technology and better computer controls is making fusion power be closer than ever, but it's not here yet also. I am also interested in seeing ion-flow batteries too , which would be good for storage for stationary batteries (not vehicles), because of the reusablity and storage capacity. The next 5 to 10 years will be very interesting in the energy generation/battery field. It will be interesting to see which technology gets to market first.

It is not vaporware if Sunfire is shipping devices.
P2G-BioCat » BioCat project visits Audi e-gas plant in Werlte
The Audi e-gas plant produces about 1,000 metric tons of e-gas per year
I realize 1000 metric tons a year, is not a lot, but it sound like the process is well on it's way.
I Have heard about plants in New Mexico, and Ice Land as well.
 
It is not vaporware if Sunfire is shipping devices.
P2G-BioCat » BioCat project visits Audi e-gas plant in Werlte

I realize 1000 metric tons a year, is not a lot, but it sound like the process is well on it's way.
I Have heard about plants in New Mexico, and Ice Land as well.


While very interesting, and hopeful for the future, it is not yet cost effective to do on a large scale. It is a nice 'proof of concept', but alas, the current price of oil is a cheaper alternative. Until such time as either the price of oil goes up again, or the cost of production goes down drastically, you won't see many more of those plants built.
 
While very interesting, and hopeful for the future, it is not yet cost effective to do on a large scale. It is a nice 'proof of concept', but alas, the current price of oil is a cheaper alternative. Until such time as either the price of oil goes up again, or the cost of production goes down drastically, you won't see many more of those plants built.
No one will have to build any of those plants, they already exists in the form of modern oil refineries.
Audi bought an old refinery to make their plant.
At the current claimed efficiency (70%), it looks like the breakover price point is about $90 a barrel oil.
Somewhere around that price it will be more profitable for the refinery to make the fuel products they sell
from atmospheric CO2, electricity, and water, than to buy, transport and refine oil.
Do you remember when a Saudi Prince said Oil will NEVER be over $100 a barrel again, and people laughed at him.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ces-won-t-return-to-100-saudi-prince-alwaleed
He may have been correct, If oil has a ceiling price, above which refineries stop buying, the price will cap out.
For over a century refineries have been doing olefin cracking, to get the most fuel product out of each barrel of oil.
From what I understand, the Sunfire process makes the olefins suitable for the reassembly process to make whatever fuel is needed.
People demonize the oil companies, yet oil companies have been at the fore front of many of the technology advances of the past century.
Chemicals , plastics, new materials, ect, the Scientists and Engineers at places like Exxon, Shell , and Dow, lead the research.
They hire the best and brightest minds in the industry, and they do not usually publish their work.
I would be surprised if they did not already have this process refined and ready to go.
 
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