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Offended by a black Santa?[W:113]

Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Can you prove that? Because depictions of him in painting show him as being brown.
And others show him to be white. And?

No depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him.

All the ancient paintings show Caucasian features.
Like I said, Greek. Which is not African or even dark.



And again, this is about Santa, or as originally known, Sinterklaas.
Sinterklaas is based on Saint Nicholas's acts of giving and was created as a white man.


This is the latest forensic reconstruction of what he looked like.
face-new.jpg












I'm sure it's of the utmost importance for you that Barney remains purple and since I don't care, we'll just leave it at that.

Yay!
 
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Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Why exactly can Barney only be purple?
Because Baby Bop is green and BJ is yellow. The kids on the show are white and black, and the sky is blue. That only leaves purple...OBVIOUSLY.


And, yes, as a man who does not yet have children, I am a little ashamed I know this. I did have younger siblings though, so I feel I get a pass.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Black? Pfft. Who cares??

I saw a ****ing skinny Santa Claus walking around the other day, there's a special place in hell for that asshole, trying to make little kids happy!!
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

And others show him to be white. And?
And read my prior post regarding the mid-19th century depictions.

No depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him.

Late 15th century depiction:

677px-Icon_c_1500_St_Nicholas.JPG


Amazingly darker skinned than your version. Does the dark skin offend you?

All the ancient paintings show Caucasian features.
Like I said, Greek. Which is not African or even dark.

Not quite...
Saint_Nicholas.jpg




And again, this is about Santa, or as originally known, Sinterklaas.
Sinterklaas is based on Saint Nicholas's acts of giving and was created as a white man.
My emphasis. But in real life he wasn't a white man.

Still offended?
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

And read my prior post regarding the mid-19th century depictions.



Late 15th century depiction:

677px-Icon_c_1500_St_Nicholas.JPG


Amazingly darker skinned than your version. Does the dark skin offend you?



Not quite...
Saint_Nicholas.jpg




My emphasis. But in real life he wasn't a white man.

Still offended?

His father and mother were Greek. Since when are Greeks considered non-white?
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

His father and mother were Greek. Since when are Greeks considered non-white?

You are assuming his heritage as being "Greek" and his lineage.

For example, this person in the picture below could be 2nd generation German, with German parents. Does that mean he's white?
john_ehret2012-big.jpg




Because they were Greek does not mean they were Caucasian looking or had white skin. On the contrary, the ancient Greek diaspora ranged from European to Northern Africa to Spain and Asia Minor. The assumption that challenges people's preconceived notions that St. Nicholas must have been "white" is truly baffling. The White St. Nicholas as we know him is as Excon identified, a created characture of the mid-19th and early 20th century.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Oh dear, my biggest disappointment was that the CBS and Star Tribune didn't switch off because the website couldn't cope with the numbers of people defending Mr Gamble or the choice of him being the first Black Santa for Mall of America. :(

You guys realize, don't you, that Santa Cause is a 20th century invention by the Coca-Cola company. That before he was an elf, he was a tall almost 8 ft creature named "Father Christmas" or St Nicholas as a humble king who anonymously left food packages at the homes of the needy on Christmas eve.

So in keeping with the fact it's a complete falsehood designed to drive greed, "Santa" can be any ****ing color the idiots who perpetrate the stupid myth want to make him....or her.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

And read my prior post regarding the mid-19th century depictions.
I did read it. Those depictions are irrelevant. Did you really not understand that?
As already pointed out, they are irrelevant because, "no depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him".


Late 15th century depiction:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Icon_c_1500_St_Nicholas.JPG/677px-Icon_c_1500_St_Nicholas.JPG[img][/QUOTE]
Doh.
Irrelevant to the information I provided.
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="#000033"][B][FONT=Trebuchet MS]"no depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him".[/FONT][/B][/COLOR][/INDENT][/INDENT]

[QUOTE="Ockham, post: 1066650430, member: 8754"]Amazingly darker skinned than your version.[/QUOTE]Irrelevant.
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="#000033"][B][FONT=Trebuchet MS]"no depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him".[/FONT][/B][/COLOR][/INDENT][/INDENT]
And what I provided was done by Science.


[QUOTE="Ockham, post: 1066650430, member: 8754"]Not quite... [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Saint_Nicholas.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
Not quite? iLOL
Aged and dirty paint with Caucasian features.
Still irrelevant to the information I provided.
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="#000033"][B][FONT=Trebuchet MS]"no depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him".[/FONT][/B][/COLOR][/INDENT][/INDENT]


[QUOTE="Ockham, post: 1066650430, member: 8754"]My emphasis. But in real life he wasn't a white man.[/QUOTE]

You seem to be confused.
I could have posted and earlier painting than you showing him to be white. But the point I made instead is that those images are irrelevant as none of them were painted around his lifetime (270 to 343 AD) or by those who knew what he looked like.
Did you really not understand that?


Then you did not and could not refute what I posted about the most recent forensic reconstruction. Contrary to your displayed ignorance, given the forensic reconstruction, "in real life" he was a white man.


That Saint Nicholas has been represented as a darker color Caucasoid in painting is irrelevant to science of forensics and to how Sinterklass was created.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

I did read it. Those depictions are irrelevant. Did you really not understand that?
They are irrelevant because you want St. Nicholas to be white. You never answered; are you offended?
emot-byodood.gif


Irrelevant.

And what I provided was done by Science.

Did science know him? :lamo


Not quite? iLOL
... because you want St. Nicholas to be white.

You seem to be confused.
I could have posted and earlier painting than you showing him to be white.
So do it.

Then you did not and could not refute what I posted about the most recent forensic reconstruction. Contrary to your displayed ignorance, given the forensic reconstruction, "in real life" he was a white man.
Historical artists already refuted it. Science didn't know St. Nicholas either.


That Saint Nicholas has been represented as a darker color Caucasoid in painting is irrelevant to science of forensics and to how Sinterklass was created.
... because you want St. Nicholas to be white.

Sorry, St. Nicholas as depicted from the 15th century was brown.
 
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Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Wait till the make an Hispanic Tinker Bell, or a black Peter Pan

Even better? A black Show White.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

They are irrelevant because you want St. Nicholas to be white.
Wrong.
They are irrelevant because, "no depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him".
Clearly you are playing some sort of game and can't win.


You never answered; are you offended?
iLOL
I have no need to answer your irrelevant deflections from your being wrong.
Funny that you think I do.


Did science know him?
A ridiculous reply.


... because you want St. Nicholas to be white.
Wrong as usual.
Apparently you are projecting the opposite of your desire on me.
Sorry that does not fly, those depictions show Caucasian features.


So do it.
No. You are the only one who showed they were confused.


... because you want St. Nicholas to be white.
:lamo
No. Forensically he is.
And you are additionally wrong by what I argued.

Sinterklass is based on Saint Nicholas's giving and was created as a white man. Apparently you don't understand that either.


Sorry, St. Nicholas as depicted from the 15th century was brown.
Which is irrelevant.
Not just to the earlier depictions showing him to be white, but to forensics science showing him to be white.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

They are irrelevant because you want St. Nicholas to be white. You never answered; are you offended?
emot-byodood.gif




Did science know him? :lamo


... because you want St. Nicholas to be white.

So do it.

Historical artists already refuted it. Science didn't know St. Nicholas either.


... because you want St. Nicholas to be white.

Sorry, St. Nicholas as depicted from the 15th century was brown.



It's ****ing myth! Oh well, you already elected an orange president, why don't we resolve the issue and make him ream colored and put him in a rainbow colored suit.

Gay Santa and his lesbian and transgendered elves.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Wrong.
They are irrelevant because, "no depiction was painted around his lifetime or in the lifetime of anyone that knew him".
Clearly you are playing some sort of game and can't win.
Science wasn't around then either, so you just undermined your own science argument. Well done.

What is your major issue with St. Nicholas being dark skinned? You won't seem to answer.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

It's funny that race is even an issue with a magical, mythical elf.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

It's ****ing myth! Oh well, you already elected an orange president, why don't we resolve the issue and make him ream colored and put him in a rainbow colored suit.

Gay Santa and his lesbian and transgendered elves.

If you throw in some bells and a funny hat you got a deal! :wink:
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Some people can even eff up a Santa thread. :lol:

To keep in the proper spirit, that should be "Some people can really elf up a Santa thread".
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Science wasn't around then either, so you just undermined your own science argument. Well done.

What is your major issue with St. Nicholas being dark skinned? You won't seem to answer.
Your reply is dumb.
Just dumb.
Clearly you do not understand the roll of forensic science in this.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Your reply is dumb.
Just dumb.
Clearly you do not understand the roll of forensic science in this.

Clearly you stepped in your own trap there. Sorry but it was too easy. Still won't answer eh? I guess you have an issue then with non-whites donning the jolly red/white suit. That's a shame.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Have whatever Santa you want. Ours used to skydive in. I can only assume somewhere that did not work out well for Santa or bunches of kids watching so they seem to have ended the practice.
 
Re: Offended by a black Santa?

Clearly you stepped in your own trap there. Sorry but it was too easy. Still won't answer eh? I guess you have an issue then with non-whites donning the jolly red/white suit. That's a shame.
iLOL

No, what you said, "Science wasn't around then either" was categorically dumb.
There is no trap in what you said.
Forensics science has shown us what he is likely to have looked like, and that is far more accurate than depictions from folks who never seen him.
 
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