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When did welfare become n entitlement?

Yes, I know that already. It is why we don't have a true democracy, like the Greeks used to.

in a classical republic of the founders there is no socialism, because our republic was a MIXED government/ constitution and mixed government BLOCKS the people from creating laws embellishing themselves with handouts ,government entitlements /programs,because the senate is not of the people, its of the state legislatures and they will not allow such a law to be created.
 
in a classical republic of the founders there is no socialism, because our republic was a MIXED government/ constitution and mixed government BLOCKS the people from creating laws embellishing themselves with handouts ,government entitlements /programs,because the senate is not of the people, its of the state legislatures and they will not allow such a law to be created.

Government is socialism. You merely don't understand the concepts of what socialism is.
 
Government is socialism. You merely don't understand the concepts of what socialism is.

sorry, wrong, socialism is force and the federal government did not have any powers concerning the people.


FEDERALIST -45 The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

FEDERALIST -84 But a minute detail of particular rights is certainly far less applicable to a Constitution like that under consideration, which is merely intended to regulate the general political interests of the nation, than to a constitution which has the regulation of every species of personal and private concerns.
 
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There is a difference between believing or promoting a specific economic theory verses the acknowledgement that the current systems is mixed. You do know that, don't you? One is theory, the other is 'what do we have now'.

Fine. This thread is going nowhere anyway.
 
sorry, wrong, socialism is force and the federal government did not have any powers concerning the people.


FEDERALIST -45 The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

FEDERALIST -84 But a minute detail of particular rights is certainly far less applicable to a Constitution like that under consideration, which is merely intended to regulate the general political interests of the nation, than to a constitution which has the regulation of every species of personal and private concerns.

Just a fallacy of false Cause. This is socialism and the reason for it: Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers.--The Federalist Number Two

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And
 
Just a fallacy of false Cause. This is socialism and the reason for it: Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers.--The Federalist Number Two
:lamo

whenever confronted with something that trashes your arguments you deflect...

why you are posting article 1 section 8 clause 17 i don't know.

stating that d.c. will be the seat of federal power in 10 sq mile area and that the federal government must ask the permission of a state legislature if its wishes to build within a state means nothing to what i have said....
 
:lamo

whenever confronted with something that trashes your arguments you deflect...

why you are posting article 1 section 8 clause 17 i don't know.

stating that d.c. will be the seat of federal power in 10 sq mile area and that the federal government must ask the permission of a state legislature if its wishes to build within a state means nothing to what i have said....

Nothing but diversion?

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever

That is the federal Power delegated, over All of the federal districts.
 
which has nothing to do with what i was talking about

attention deficits to go along with augmentative deficits?

sorry, wrong, socialism is force and the federal government did not have any powers concerning the people.


FEDERALIST -45 The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

FEDERALIST -84 But a minute detail of particular rights is certainly far less applicable to a Constitution like that under consideration, which is merely intended to regulate the general political interests of the nation, than to a constitution which has the regulation of every species of personal and private concerns.

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever

That is the police power for the federal government, in the federal districts.
 
In my mind, entitlements are . . .

Social Security
Medicare
Veteran Benefits
Unemployment Compensation
Federal Pensions
Others

IOW, these things have either been earned through service or have been paid for.

Food stamps
Rent subsidies
Aid to Dependent Children
Medicaid
Others

Aren't entitlements. They are given as support by a society who intends to give people a hand up.

I hear people say they're insulted that SS is called an entitlement. I guess they don't know the definition of the word. You are ENTITLED to SS. You paid for it. It's yours.

You are NOT entitled to a rent subsidy or food stamps. People get this because society has determined they need help and is willing to help them.

Thoughts?

You may use terms like entitlements, welfare, subsidies, or others, and it is really just semantics, IMO.

It has become abundantly clear that in a modern, post-industrial society, not all people are needed for paid work. Something like 2% of the workforce produces all food needed, about 12-13% all manufactured products, and so on. Societal wealth has increased drastically in recent years, but it has done so with less workers.

And hard experience through history has also taught that it is much easier in the long run to simply ensure everyone has at least enough to get by, without starving or dying of exposure or medical emergency. Better to pay "welfare" than pay legions of military and police to guard against starving mobs.

In more recent times, the hard lesson of consumer demand has also been learned. In our consumer society, poverty and lack of demand can, and has, caused dangerous cycles of deflation and economic stagnation. And so making sure everyone has a least a little to spend is an economic benefit, in addition to any moral or security concerns.

Perhaps everyone does not have the same degree of "entitlement", but a problem arises in large and complex societies of exactly who is entitled to what. A man may live most of his life in criminality, in and out of jail, produce nothing but misery, and yet still qualify for social security in his old age. A worker may have been key in producing valuable assets for the nation, such as hydroelectric dams, airports, new computer software, etc, but then finds life takes a turn, or poor decisions are made, and he is now on "welfare". Who is more entitled? And who should be charged with making the decisions? I'm not saying there aren't some scum bums out there who deserve nothing but a kick in the teeth, but I can say from experience these folks number much less than some RW hysterics imagine.

Overall, our society tends to respect things like old age, military service, etc. But these are cultural and historical developments, that vary through time and place. They follow cultural trend, and are not carved in any existing economic stone.

Given changes in technology, today it would be impossible to put very many more people in the workforce than are already there, at least in any sort of meaningful jobs, in relation to economic and population growth. Rather than trying to jam a square peg in a round hole, better to just allow that only so many will do meaningful work, and no one else should be excluded to the point of life or limb, in today's wealthy society. Call it what you may.
 
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