• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obamacare is helping patients get to the doctor and pay their medical bills

Greenbeard

Greenbeard

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
20,179
Reaction score
21,525
Location
Cambridge, MA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
"But it's useless coverage and no one can afford to go to the doctor!"

Obamacare is helping patients get to the doctor and pay their medical bills, new report finds
Fewer Americans are putting off doctor visits or struggling with medical bills, according to a new report examining the effect of the Affordable Care Act.

The report – based on a state-by-state survey of data collected by the federal government – provides powerful new evidence that insurance gains made through the 2010 healthcare law are helping millions of patients get needed medical care.

And the report’s findings, which parallel a growing body of research into the law’s effect, undercut arguments by the Trump administration and congressional Republicans who have tried to discredit and roll back the law.

“The Affordable Care Act has put access to healthcare in reach for millions of Americans, particularly for people in states that embraced the law,” conclude the authors of the report, published by the nonprofit Commonwealth Fund.

Indeed, nine of the 11 states with the biggest decline in the share of residents who delayed care because of cost concerns expanded Medicaid through the law and worked aggressively to enroll their residents in coverage, the report found.
Click to expand...
 
joG said:
Buy insurance. That helps paying for medical care, when you need it.
Click to expand...

And before Obamacare those insurance companies could flat out deny you any coverage for a pre-existing condition or just flat out refuse to pay out if you're a long time paying customer who contracts something expensive. Nobody is saying Obamacare is perfect but it did improve our system in a lot of ways.

Also a friendly reminder: the US pays over double per capita what other nations pay for health care yet we still have tens of millions uninsured, a middle class saddled with astronomical medical debt and we still rank in the 20's and 30's worldwide in healthcare outcomes and life expectancy. We pay more and more to get less and less. Time to look around and adopt something that works instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with these ridiculous systems.

American health care sucked before, during and after the ACA. I pay 300 Euro a month for Healthcare and dental for me and all of my dependents. I haven't paid a cent out of pocket in nearly a decade to include multiple surgeries for me and family members. I just wave my card and it's done. We can do better.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
And before Obamacare those insurance companies could flat out deny you any coverage for a pre-existing condition or just flat out refuse to pay out if you're a long time paying customer who contracts something expensive. Nobody is saying Obamacare is perfect but it did improve our system in a lot of ways.

Also a friendly reminder: the US pays over double per capita what other nations pay for health care yet we still have tens of millions uninsured, a middle class saddled with astronomical medical debt and we still rank in the 20's and 30's worldwide in healthcare outcomes and life expectancy. We pay more and more to get less and less. Time to look around and adopt something that works instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with these ridiculous systems.

American health care sucked before, during and after the ACA. I pay 300 Euro a month for Healthcare and dental for me and all of my dependents. I haven't paid a cent out of pocket in nearly a decade to include multiple surgeries for me and family members. I just wave my card and it's done. We can do better.
Click to expand...

Refuse coverage for preexisting conditions? You don't need ACA to fix that. And besides, my parents were very well treated by their insurance. As to expulsion,
It never happened to my mother or father both of whom had very expensive medical conditions. My mother's diabetes had been pre-existing.

In Germany the costs of public insurance differ but are around 17.5 percent of gross wages.
If you are paying Euros 300 for the family, then someone else is paying the difference. All you need do is multiply per capita health care spending by the number covered by your policy and compare that to your payments for back of envelope info. That would be something like this without adjusting for currency etc, if you are in Germany as I believe I remember you to be:
5.100×4=20.400
300×12 = 3.600
20.400-3.600=16.800
So, if you have 3 dependents and one assumes that someone pays for the 5.100 per capita health care costs in Germany, then you are underpaying quite a bit(16.800).
That's only a quick over the thumb calculation. But if you are not covering the percapita costs, who is?.
Also, I would need more details of the insurance policy and company, but coverage of that type is certainly restricted in many ways. My neighbour is specialized on helping Germans living here (Spain) collect on their insured costs for health care. He tells me that the public insurance companies are desasterous. But that is hearsay from a health professional.
 
Last edited:
joG said:
Refuse coverage for preexisting conditions? You don't need ACA to fix that. And besides, my parents were very well treated by their insurance. As to expulsion,
It never happened to my mother or father both of whom had very expensive medical conditions. My mother's diabetes had been pre-existing.

In Germany the costs of public insurance differ but are around 17.5 percent of gross wages.
If you are paying Euros 300 for the family, then someone else is paying the difference. All you need do is multiply per capita health care spending by the number covered by your policy and compare that to your payments for back of envelope info. That would be something like this without adjusting for currency etc, if you are in Germany as I believe I remember you to be:
5.100×4=20.400
300×12 = 3.600
20.400-3.600=16.800
So, if you have 3 dependents and one assumes that someone pays for the 5.100 per capita health care costs in Germany, then you are underpaying quite a bit(16.800).
That's only a quick over the thumb calculation. But if you are not covering the percapita costs, who is?.
Also, I would need more details of the insurance policy and company, but coverage of that type is certainly restricted in many ways. My neighbour is specialized on helping Germans living here (Spain) collect on their insured costs for health care. He tells me that the public insurance companies are desasterous. But that is hearsay from a health professional.
Click to expand...

Most of this post is "it never happened to my parents therefore that's not true" and the rest is just bull**** you made up. Insurance in Germany is 15% of wages but the employer matches it so that it's effectively 7.5% for the individual. As long as we're talking about parents, my elderly parents have seen their costs go up and up with their age, mine won't, and they're paying anywhere from 1500-2000 USD a month. Our system is broken and no amount of "nuh uhs" is going to change that.

The bottom line is that most European countries get better health outcomes and better coverage for about half the per capita price Americans are paying.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Most of this post is "it never happened to my parents therefore that's not true" and the rest is just bull**** you made up. Insurance in Germany is 15% of wages but the employer matches it so that it's effectively 7.5% for the individual. As long as we're talking about parents, my elderly parents have seen their costs go up and up with their age, mine won't, and they're paying anywhere from 1500-2000 USD a month. Our system is broken and no amount of "nuh uhs" is going to change that.

The bottom line is that most European countries get better health outcomes and better coverage for about half the per capita price Americans are paying.
Click to expand...

the bottom line is that most European countries don't get better health outcomes.
 
jaeger19 said:
the bottom line is that most European countries don't get better health outcomes.
Click to expand...

Yes they do. America pays more than any nation on earth by a long **** but isn't ranked even in the top half in most health-care outcomes.

0011_health-outcomes-full.gif


Do you enjoy paying more to get less?
 
joG said:
Refuse coverage for preexisting conditions? You don't need ACA to fix that.
Click to expand...

technically you are correct. You could use magic to fix that.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yes they do. America pays more than any nation on earth by a long **** but isn't ranked even in the top half in most health-care outcomes.

0011_health-outcomes-full.gif


Do you enjoy paying more to get less?
Click to expand...

Yeah... nope. Just look at quality of care. Timeliness of care etc. We are in the top 5.

Lifeexpectancy has to do with many things that are outside healthcare.

Same with infant mortality.

Same with asthma

same with diabetes.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah... nope. Just look at quality of care. Timeliness of care etc. We are in the top 5.

Lifeexpectancy has to do with many things that are outside healthcare.

Same with infant mortality.

Same with asthma

same with diabetes.
Click to expand...

And the reality is that I actually get more for less in the US.

My insurance is a basic insurance.. and its far and away better insurance than government insurance in Canada, Or Australia or France....

It covers pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, anesthesia .. etc.. that isn;t covered in Canada, France and/ or Australia
 
jaeger19 said:
And the reality is that I actually get more for less in the US.

My insurance is a basic insurance.. and its far and away better insurance than government insurance in Canada, Or Australia or France....

It covers pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, anesthesia .. etc.. that isn;t covered in Canada, France and/ or Australia
Click to expand...

You're claiming that pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, and anesthesia are ALL not covered in Canada, France, and/or Australia?

References, please.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah... nope. Just look at quality of care. Timeliness of care etc. We are in the top 5.

Lifeexpectancy has to do with many things that are outside healthcare.

Same with infant mortality.

Same with asthma

same with diabetes.
Click to expand...

No we're not. Your quality of care is zero if you can't afford it, which tens of millions of Americans can't. One category we're in the top 5 for is heart attack mortality so that's nice.

Keep defending paying twice as much to get much less. What a great system.
 
jaeger19 said:
And the reality is that I actually get more for less in the US.

My insurance is a basic insurance.. and its far and away better insurance than government insurance in Canada, Or Australia or France....

It covers pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, anesthesia .. etc.. that isn;t covered in Canada, France and/ or Australia
Click to expand...

I have all of that and more including dental for 300 Euro a month in Germany and I haven't paid a cent out of pocket in years despite many doctor visits and surgeries. You are wrong because you've never experienced anything else.

Glen Contrarian said:
You're claiming that pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, and anesthesia are ALL not covered in Canada, France, and/or Australia?

References, please.
Click to expand...

It's a blatant and easily verifiable lie from a man desperate to prove he's not being taken for a ride.
 
Last edited:
Glen Contrarian said:
You're claiming that pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, and anesthesia are ALL not covered in Canada, France, and/or Australia?

References, please.
Click to expand...

+1

I'm Australian and have a very good understanding of how the health system here works (both Medicare and Private) and am looking forward to the reply to this false claim.
 
Serenity said:
+1

I'm Australian and have a very good understanding of how the health system here works (both Medicare and Private) and am looking forward to the reply to this false claim.
Click to expand...

Don't hold your breath - it's pretty common that when one asks "references, please", all you get in return is *crickets*.
 
jaeger19 said:
And the reality is that I actually get more for less in the US.

My insurance is a basic insurance.. and its far and away better insurance than government insurance in Canada, Or Australia or France....

It covers pharmaceuticals, outpatient therapies, outpatient surgeries, durable medical equipment, anesthesia .. etc.. that isn;t covered in Canada, France and/ or Australia
Click to expand...

Hey Jaeger19 - you've got at least three requests for references: from me, and from others from Australia and Germany. It's your turn - you made the claim, so all we're doing is asking you to back it up!
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Most of this post is "it never happened to my parents therefore that's not true" and the rest is just bull**** you made up. Insurance in Germany is 15% of wages but the employer matches it so that it's effectively 7.5% for the individual. As long as we're talking about parents, my elderly parents have seen their costs go up and up with their age, mine won't, and they're paying anywhere from 1500-2000 USD a month. Our system is broken and no amount of "nuh uhs" is going to change that.

The bottom line is that most European countries get better health outcomes and better coverage for about half the per capita price Americans are paying.
Click to expand...

You mean they are not rioting in the streets calling for a pre-ACA system like we used to have? Silly Europeans.
 
Vern said:
technically you are correct. You could use magic to fix that.
Click to expand...

If you believe that, it's fine by me. I would adjust the property rights with a piece of regulation.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yes they do. America pays more than any nation on earth by a long **** but isn't ranked even in the top half in most health-care outcomes.

0011_health-outcomes-full.gif


Do you enjoy paying more to get less?
Click to expand...

No amount of free society health care will save you, if you eat like a pig and OD on opioides.
 
joG said:
If you believe that, it's fine by me. I would adjust the property rights with a piece of regulation.
Click to expand...

my bad. You would magic and babble to fix it.
 
Vern said:
my bad. You would magic and babble to fix it.
Click to expand...

Naw. I'd propose the workable rule. It doesn't surprise me that you don't know how. But it is quite easy.
 
Greenbeard said:
Something really terrific.
Click to expand...

Not really. It can make sense. That depends on the structure of the health care financing. In Germany they have both types for instance. But there are folks here that just like to badmouth and complain. They aren't really interested in the nuts and bolts.
 
joG said:
Not really. It can make sense. That depends on the structure of the health care financing. In Germany they have both types for instance. But there are folks here that just like to badmouth and complain. They aren't really interested in the nuts and bolts.
Click to expand...

Jog, that's the most honest thing you've ever posted. Yes, there are folks here that just like to badmouth and complain and they aren't really interested in the nuts and bolts. thank you for admitting it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom