• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Record number of new Obamacare Signups

A

ataraxia

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
48,064
Reaction score
25,301
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
ataraxia said:
Fascinating. As Obamacare gets increasingly strangled by the Trump administration, slashing promotion and enactment budgets, a record number of people have signed up for it on the first day of the new enrollment season. I guess people don't appreciate a good thing until they know they may lose it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/record-level-of-sign-ups-for-obamacare-plans-reported.html

Click to expand...


Those people are without a choice.

The split second people have a choice obamacare won't be as dead as dog poo (like now) it will be dog poo dried up and blowing away.
 
Casca XV said:
Those people are without a choice.

The split second people have a choice obamacare won't be as dead as dog poo (like now) it will be dog poo dried up and blowing away.
Click to expand...

Well we have been waiting for a long time now. Where's that choice?

There comes a time when just being the party of "no" is not enough to actually govern. It's easy to be a critic. It's harder to actually do useful things. If they don't like Obamacare, the GOP needs to be able to come up with some constructive ideas of their own. Otherwise, this is the best we can do.
 
Casca XV said:
Those people are without a choice.

The split second people have a choice obamacare won't be as dead as dog poo (like now) it will be dog poo dried up and blowing away.
Click to expand...

i suspect most of us look forward to a time when those enrollees have a better option than Obamacare

probably will be universal healthcare/medicare without age restrictions
 
ataraxia said:
Well we have been waiting for a long time now. Where's that choice?

There comes a time when just being the party of "no" is not enough to actually govern. It's easy to be a critic. It's harder to actually do useful things. If they don't like Obamacare, the GOP needs to be able to come up with some constructive ideas of their own. Otherwise, this is the best we can do.
Click to expand...

There are Establishment Swamp Dwellers
even in the GOP.

The good news is, Trump is taking it over the way Reagan did.
 
Casca XV said:
There are Establishment Swamp Dwellers
even in the GOP.

The good news is, Trump is taking it over the way Reagan did.
Click to expand...

With biglier, better 'Gators, whiter cottonmouths and fewer mangroves to provide hiding places for the prey!
 
justabubba said:
i suspect most of us look forward to a time when those enrollees have a better option than Obamacare

probably will be universal healthcare/medicare without age restrictions
Click to expand...

Nobody uses Universal AKA Socialized healthcare if they have a choice.

In countries that have it people who can go to America or private clinics for all their healthcare needs.
 
Casca XV said:
Nobody uses Universal AKA Socialized healthcare if they have a choice.

In countries that have it people who can go to America or private clinics for all their healthcare needs.
Click to expand...

In those countries, it's not too different than public schools. Just because there is a public school system doesn't mean there can't be a private one too for those who can afford it. But it's nice to have as a basic safety net.

Both a basic education and access to healthcare were enumerated as basic human rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights- a document signed by the US and most nations of the world back in 1948. It's OK to have bare bottom safety nets for some of these basic human rights. It makes for a more stable, just, and prosperous society.
 
Fletch said:
And why the sudden surge?
Click to expand...

Probably more disseminated public information about the enrollment period as well as the fact it is shortened relative to prior years. This is "on the first day of enrollment" data, not popularity data. The political spin applied by the OP is predictable, but not particularly honest.
 
Casca XV said:
Nobody uses Universal AKA Socialized healthcare if they have a choice.

In countries that have it people who can go to America or private clinics for all their healthcare needs.
Click to expand...

yes, and rich people also tend to fly private jets instead of taking commercial air passage, because they can afford it

same with private health care in lieu of single payer medical coverage

unfortunately, most of us are not rich
 
Fletch said:
And why the sudden surge?
Click to expand...

Because they are realizing they may lose it for real now. At some point people realize that their reckless obstructionism and partisanship has real world consequences, many of which will hurt them directly. That's when they may sober up and actually start acting responsibly. There's more to running a country than just cuss out those who actually do things. It's easy to be a critic. It's harder to actually do things. After 8 years of being a critic, the ball is now in the GOP's court, and they are realizing maybe what we had, while not perfect, wasn't all that bad after all.
 
ataraxia said:
Because they are realizing they may lose it for real now. At some point people realize that their reckless obstructionism and partisanship has real world consequences, many of which will hurt them directly. That's when they may sober up and actually start acting responsibly. There's more to running a country than just cuss out those who actually do things. It's easy to be a critic. It's harder to actually do things. After 8 years of being a critic, the ball is now in the GOP's court, and they are realizing maybe what we had, while not perfect, wasn't all that bad after all.
Click to expand...

Interesting theory. Any actual evidence to back that up? Or should I just write it off as partisan drivel?
 
Fletch said:
Interesting theory. Any actual evidence to back that up? Or should I just write it off as partisan drivel?
Click to expand...

No. This is what the people signing up for it are saying:

"Michael Mashoney, 55, was concerned about signing up for coverage this year because of all of the uncertainty surrounding the health reform law. A self-employed consultant from The Woodlands, Texas, Mashoney was uninsured before the Obamacare exchanges debuted in 2014.

But he was happy to see that his carrier, Community Health Choice, is returning for 2018. Though he doesn't qualify for subsidies and his premium is going up about $200 a month, he likes knowing he has a safety net. "
Americans rush to sign up for Obamacare in first four days of open enrollment - Nov. 9, 2017
Click to expand...

If you don't like that theory, what's your explanation for the phenomenon?
 
ataraxia said:
No. This is what the people signing up for it are saying:



If you don't like that theory, what's your explanation for the phenomenon?
Click to expand...
How does that on anecdotal comment support your position?
 
Fletch said:
Interesting theory. Any actual evidence to back that up? Or should I just write it off as partisan drivel?
Click to expand...

_________________
Here is some more "anecdotes', along with a Trump state policy report:

According to a new West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy (WVCBP) report, repealing the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) would have far-reaching effects in the Mountain State.

“Repealing the ACA: Hurting Our Health and Our Economy,” released Tuesday, says not only 184,000 West Virginians would lose health insurance, but the state’s weak economy could falter with the loss of billions of dollars of federal funds.

An estimated 16,000 jobs would be lost by 2019 and nearly $350 million would be lost in tax revenue over five years. The Urban Institute estimates West Virginia would lose $14 billion in federal funds between 2019-2028, including $12 billion supporting Medicaid/CHIP...

“The ACA is much more than a lifeline for hundreds of thousands of West Virginians who have gained health coverage and important patient protections,” said WVCBP Executive Director Ted Boettner, who authored the report. “It has been a billion dollar investment in our people that has lead to thousands of new jobs during a time when our state’s communities are struggling.”...

Proponents of the ACA have also feared loss of coverage for young adults under 26 still on their parents’ plans...Julie Vaughan-Meadors, of Charles Town, and her oldest son, Zachary, are hoping those senators make good on their promise to keep protections in place...

Zachary was 23 years old when he was diagnosed with thyroid cancer... now 26 years old, fears he will not be able to utilize the final months of his health coverage under his parents’ plan if the ACA is repealed.

Zachary will graduate from California State University in May with his degree in sociology. He has applied, and anticipates he will be hired, at a job in West Virginia.

“He’s scared out of his mind,” Vaughan-Meadors said...

Since the ACA was enacted, West Virginia’s uninsured population dropped from 14 percent in 2013 to 6 percent in 2016 — the lowest it has ever been.

West Virginia to be second most affected state with ACA repeal
Click to expand...

At some point, these folks are realizing they are not just cussing at a TV set anymore, and if they really want to cut their own noses off to spite their face because Fox News told them to, their nose really is going to be coming off. That's why this is happening.
 
Last edited:
Fletch said:
And why the sudden surge?
Click to expand...

They saw what the alternative TrumpCare looks like. Trump and the GOP did something Obama and the Democrats couldn't do...make ObamaCare more popular with the American public. Thanks Trump!
 
justabubba said:
yes, and rich people also tend to fly private jets instead of taking commercial air passage, because they can afford it

same with private health care in lieu of single payer medical coverage

unfortunately, most of us are not rich
Click to expand...

And Rich people in countries with single payer AKA socialized healthcare fly those private jets to America to get the same healthcare our poor and middle class have access to.

Or if left in place, obamacare will slowly "Change" the healthcare most Americans have access to, to the crap most of the rest of the world gets.
 
Casca XV said:
And Rich people in countries with single payer AKA socialized healthcare fly those private jets to America to get the same healthcare our poor and middle class have access to.

Or if left in place, obamacare will slowly "Change" the healthcare most Americans have access to, to the crap most of the rest of the world gets.
Click to expand...

US public health is toward the bottom of almost all economically developed countries in the world today, by almost any metric. But I think we still beat Bangladesh.
 
ataraxia said:
US public health is toward the bottom of almost all economically developed countries in the world today, by almost any metric. But I think we still beat Bangladesh.
Click to expand...

I have looked, and every stat like that I have ever seen is Garbage. They get those fraudulent comparisons mostly in two ways.

1. Socialist leaning Govts lie about everything including their citizens health stats.

2. The comparisons are never Apples to Apples, for example: It's claimed the US has one of the highest infant mortality rates, but the US is one of the only countries to count premature baby deaths. When its all counted the same The US has the lowest infant mortality. It's also claimed the US has a low life expectancy, but the US is one of the only countries to count external causes: accidents, drug overdoses, murder. When all counted the same the US has one of the highest life expectancies.
 
Casca XV said:
I have looked, and every stat like that I have ever seen is Garbage. They get those fraudulent comparisons mostly in two ways.

1. Socialist leaning Govts lie about everything including their citizens health stats.

2. The comparisons are never Apples to Apples, for example: It's claimed the US has one of the highest infant mortality rates, but the US is one of the only countries to count premature baby deaths. When its all counted the same The US has the lowest infant mortality. It's also claimed the US has a low life expectancy, but the US is one of the only countries to count external causes: accidents, drug overdoses, murder. When all counted the same the US has one of the highest life expectancies.
Click to expand...

Of course we know you will dismiss any information that may challenge your already pre-existing beliefs.

But OK. If you don't think we can compare across nations, then we can look to see how things have worked in the same country (in this case, Thailand, with its new system of nationalized healthcare):

"The Asian nation proves that a well researched system with dedicated leadership can improve health, affordably. In 10 years, its plan reduced infant mortality, decreased worker sick days and lightened families’ financial burdens...

In 2000, about one-quarter of people in Thailand were uninsured, and many other people had policies that granted incomplete protection. As a result, the country was in a healthcare crisis. More than 17,000 children younger than five died that year, about two-thirds of them from easily preventable infectious diseases. And about 20% of the poorest Thai homes fell into poverty from out-of-pocket healthcare spending...

The lessons in Thailand: a well researched system with a dedicated leadership can improve health, and in an affordable way. As of 2011, the country’s health scheme now cost just $80 per person annually, primarily funded by general income tax; it effectively reduced infant mortality, decreased worker sick days and lightened families’ financial burden for healthcare."
https://www.theguardian.com/health-...-healthcare-ucs-patients-government-political
Click to expand...

So you think the US is not Thailand, and their experience does not apply here? Well, it turns out, it does:

"The Patient Protection and Affordable Health Care Act, also known as Obamacare, was signed into law in 2010, yet is still embroiled in political controversy. However, the plan is paying off: more people than ever are insured and out-of-pocket spending has dramatically declined among those insured."
https://www.theguardian.com/health-...-healthcare-ucs-patients-government-political
Click to expand...

What's the best way to know that it works here in the US? Because, funny enough, the same people who in the heat of the moment elected someone to gut it, are now afraid of it getting gutted:



 
Well all I can tell ya is that a policy I paid $65.42 a month for this year will increase to $365.42 come January...I will do without until I am eligible for Medicare in April...I go to the Dr once a year...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom