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Oklahoma blames Trump officials for higher premiums

polgara said:
Greetings, Greenbeard. :2wave:

There are two things about this topic I just don't understand - or maybe I'm just missing something:

1. What has Trump to do with Obamacare premiums? He had no part in anything to do with Obamacare - that was a program set up years ago by Obama, and the premiums did increase yearly on his watch.

2. Isn't it up to Congress to apportion monies for spending on anything? What is Trump expected to do to help any given State?
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Under the ACA, states have the option to take the money they would normally receive under the law and modify the program to tweak parts of it or try other things (provided they don't boot people off coverage or make it less affordable for people). Doesn't cost the taxpayers any additional money, it just needs sign-off from the administration.

Oklahoma was working with the feds on a program that would lower premiums by double digits by redirecting money to specifically defray the expenses of high-cost patients. By their account they worked with the feds for months and were told that final approval was coming this week (since the insurance markets for 2018 are locked in after this week, not getting it now would kill the idea). And the administration opted not to approve it.

This is especially problematic because the administration has been purposely driving up 2018 premiums by threatening to make policy changes that would drive up costs. Those threats have been priced into premiums for next year by insurers, regardless of whether Trump makes good on his threats or not. Needless increases that could've easily been avoided.
 
Greenbeard said:
I literally posted a letter from Oklahoma's Secretary of Health and Human Services as evidence. You even copied it in your quote!

Oklahoma's been working with CMS for months. For no apparent reason, the rug was pulled out from underneath them.
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People who blindly hate Obamacare do not have time for facts, Greenbeard. Those things are pesky inconveniences that need to be swept aside.
 
polgara said:
He had no part in anything to do with Obamacare - that was a program set up years ago by Obama, and the premiums did increase yearly on his watch.
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really? Obamacare was a program set up years ago by Obama? Polgara, thank you for that information in the Obamacare forum. anyhoo, if I didn’t know better I’d think your “golly gee, is that true?” is just a dishonest shtick. Anyhoo, Greenbeard has shown you how trump has increased premiums. Republicans have also increased premiums by sabotaging the risk corridors program , not expanding Medicaid and encouraging people to not sign up. now that you know that Trump and republicans have been driving up premiums, you’re gosh darn angry right? who but a Russian bot would be happy with average Americans paying more for healthcare. And who but a Russian bot wouldn’t be happy about 20 million more people with health care, higher quality care and a lower deficit.
 
Greenbeard said:
It was literally a week ago that the talking point was that the best thing we can do is give the states the money they would've gotten anyway and let them try out their own solutions to their problems.

Gee whiz, that's what the State Innovation Waivers under the ACA are for. Looks like the Trump administration didn't really buy into that talking point. Instead, they've passed on an opportunity to help Oklahoma drive premiums down by 30%.

Oklahoma blames Trump officials for higher premiums
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Wait...the state required a waiver from Obamacare working like its supposed to to avoid the cost...of what its supposed to cost. And thats Trumps fault...because they didnt approve the waiver preventing Obamacare from costing...what its supposed to cost.

Do you read what you are writing?
 
VanceMack said:
Wait...the state required a waiver from Obamacare working like its supposed to to avoid the cost...of what its supposed to cost. And thats Trumps fault...because they didnt approve the waiver preventing Obamacare from costing...what its supposed to cost.
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The Trump premium hikes are not what anything is "supposed to cost," they're the intended outcome of the phony crises this administration has induced in its attempt to torpedo the markets.
 
Greenbeard said:
The Trump premium hikes are not what anything is "supposed to cost," they're the intended outcome of the phony crises this administration has induced in its attempt to torpedo the markets.
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:lamo

The 'Trump hikes'. :lamo

Obama and the rats built that piece of **** legislation. The rates have been skyrocketing. Its so bad it needs waivers and artificial stimulation to keep it from burying the people that are burdened by it. But its TRUMPS fault.

Your desperation is pathetic.
 
VanceMack said:
:lamo

The 'Trump hikes'. :lamo

Obama and the rats built that piece of **** legislation. The rates have been skyrocketing. Its so bad it needs waivers and artificial stimulation to keep it from burying the people that are burdened by it. But its TRUMPS fault.

Your desperation is pathetic.
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er uh Vance, trump's effect on the rates is documented. As are the effects of republican sabotage. If you were a real American, you'd be angry at everybody you think is responsible for people paying more for healthcare and not just the ones your Russian bosses approve of.
 
Vern said:
er uh Vance, trump's effect on the rates is documented. As are the effects of republican sabotage. If you were a real American, you'd be angry at everybody you think is responsible for people paying more for healthcare and not just the ones your Russian bosses approve of.
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Er uh Vern...The rates in Obama care were skyrocketing long before Trump even ran for office. Do you get how pathetic you sound trying to blame HIM for that piece of **** the rats created?

Even in THIS particular instance...Obamacare rates were skyrocketing and they were clamoring for more federal bailout money to pay for the ACA. Thats what the OP is pissed about. The FED didnt bailout the states by giving them money to offset the obscene costs of the ACA.

The ACA is a piece of ****. You own it. Take pride in it. ALL of it.
 
VanceMack said:
Er uh Vern...The rates in Obama care were skyrocketing long before Trump even ran for office. Do you get how pathetic you sound trying to blame HIM for that piece of **** the rats created?
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I think you're forgetting about republicans sabotaging Obamacare before Trump was elected. I just mentioned it. anyhoo, skyrocketing may not be the right term. Going up? yes. going up more than normal? maybe. Going up faster because of Trump and republicans? definitely. Thank goodness Obamacare's subdidies are tied to costs and income so 90% of people are shielded from Trump and republicans sabotage. Now I know your Russian bosses don't want you to have any actual facts as you obediently flail at Obamacare but see if you can grasp this

Vern said:
This year’s low family premium increase is similar to last year’s (4%) and reflects a significant slowdown over the past 15 years. Since 2011, average family premiums have increased 20 percent, more slowly than the previous five years (31% increase from 2006 and 2011) and more slowly than the five years before that (63% from 2001 to 2006).

Average Annual Workplace Family Health Premiums Rise Modest 3% to $18,142 in 2016;*More Workers Enroll in High-Deductible Plans With Savings Option Over Past Two Years | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
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so businesses are saving money because the cost of health care has increased more slowly. and people in the individual market would be paying less if not for trump and republicans trying to sabotage Obamacare. again, if you were a real American, you'd be angry at everybody you think is responsible for people paying more for healthcare and not just the ones your Russian bosses approve of.
 
Vern said:
I think you're forgetting about republicans sabotaging Obamacare before Trump was elected. I just mentioned it. anyhoo, skyrocketing may not be the right term. Going up? yes. going up more than normal? maybe. Going up faster because of Trump and republicans? definitely. Thank goodness Obamacare's subdidies are tied to costs and income so 90% of people are shielded from Trump and republicans sabotage. Now I know your Russian bosses don't want you to have any actual facts as you obediently flail at Obamacare but see if you can grasp this



so businesses are saving money because the cost of health care has increased more slowly. and people in the individual market would be paying less if not for trump and republicans trying to sabotage Obamacare. again, if you were a real American, you'd be angry at everybody you think is responsible for people paying more for healthcare and not just the ones your Russian bosses approve of.
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It went from pathetic to.....worse.

Poor poor rats. It wasnt THEIR fault the ACA is a piece of ****.


Jaaaaaaaayzus...........
 
VanceMack said:
It went from pathetic to.....worse.

Poor poor rats. It wasnt THEIR fault the ACA is a piece of ****.


Jaaaaaaaayzus...........
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er uh vance, I don't think you know how things work at a debate forum. You definitely know how things work at chat rooms especially pre-teen conservative chat rooms with your flailing and whining. We were discussing your "skyrocketing rates" comment. Now read this slowly again, if you were a real American, you'd be angry at everybody you think is responsible for people paying more for healthcare and not just the ones your Russian bosses approve of. Help me understand why you obediently hate something that gave 20 million people healthcare, increased the quality of care and lowered the deficit. do I need to have this translated into Russian so you can understand it.
 
Greenbeard said:
It was literally a week ago that the talking point was that the best thing we can do is give the states the money they would've gotten anyway and let them try out their own solutions to their problems.

Gee whiz, that's what the State Innovation Waivers under the ACA are for. Looks like the Trump administration didn't really buy into that talking point. Instead, they've passed on an opportunity to help Oklahoma drive premiums down by 30%.

Oklahoma blames Trump officials for higher premiums
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It sounds like we're arguing whether the pig is prettier with or without the the lip stick.
 
code1211 said:
It sounds like we're arguing whether the pig is prettier with or without the the lip stick.
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When Trump deliberately takes a premium increase from ~0% to 21%, that's a big deal.

For instance, that's exactly what he did in in Tennessee:

Key Takeaways

  • Our 2017 rates are allowing us to earn a margin (profit) for the first time in four years and would have enabled us to propose only a small increase for 2018 to cover expected changes in medical and operating costs.
  • However, we have to factor in two significant uncertainties – whether the federal government will fund cost-sharing reductions for low-income members and how the risk pool will change if the coverage mandate is not enforced.
  • We are requesting state approval for an average rate increase of 21 percent, but what members pay will vary based on their region, age, income level and plan type.
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How federal uncertainties are affecting 2018 rates

Medical costs continue to rise, and we’re facing additional taxes for this line of business, but our experience so far in 2017 means we would have only needed a small average rate increase.

However, we have to account for two significant uncertainties at the federal level:

  • Whether the federal government will guarantee funding for the cost-sharing reduction (CSR) program
  • How the risk pool might change if the individual coverage mandate isn’t enforced

BCBST2018RatesInfographic_FV-1.jpg
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That's just one example, of course: he's doing this in markets all around the country.

Oklahoma's just an example of a state that was trying to mitigate the Trump premium spike but got shot down.
 
Greenbeard said:
When Trump deliberately takes a premium increase from ~0% to 21%, that's a big deal.

For instance, that's exactly what he did in in Tennessee:




That's just one example, of course: he's doing this in markets all around the country.

Oklahoma's just an example of a state that was trying to mitigate the Trump premium spike but got shot down.
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Trump's doing this?
 
reinoe said:
So it was an unnecessary subsidy with different strings attached. Last time I checked, insurance premiums have been going up since insurance has existed.
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there have been double digit increases since obamacare went into effect.
in fact a year or so ago there was an article that said premiums were rising faster than before.

even after obamacare.

it was a fraud and a lie and everyone knows it except for the liberal elite.
then again they want you to put your health in their hands. lol
 
Greenbeard said:
It was literally a week ago that the talking point was that the best thing we can do is give the states the money they would've gotten anyway and let them try out their own solutions to their problems.

Gee whiz, that's what the State Innovation Waivers under the ACA are for. Looks like the Trump administration didn't really buy into that talking point. Instead, they've passed on an opportunity to help Oklahoma drive premiums down by 30%.

Oklahoma blames Trump officials for higher premiums
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2016
Obama administration announces double-digit premium hikes for Affordable Care Act

Obama administration announces double-digit premium hikes for Affordable Care Act | PBS NewsHour


State Innovation Waivers

The Secretary may grant a request for a waiver under subsection (a)(1)
only if the Secretary determines that the State plan—

(A) will provide coverage that is at least as comprehensive as the coverage
defined in section 1302(b) and offered through Exchanges
established under this title as certified by Office of the Actuary of the
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services based on sufficient data from
the State and from comparable States about their experience with programs
created by this Act and the provisions of this Act that would be
waived;

(B) will provide coverage and cost sharing protections against excessive
out-of-pocket spending that are at least as affordable as the provisions
of this title would provide;

(C) will provide coverage to at least a comparable number of its residents
as the provisions of this title would provide; and

(D) will not increase the Federal deficit.

So the waivers wouldn't actually address what's fundamentally wrong with ObamaCare. Insurance policies would still have to meet the minimum federal requirements, out of pocket cost would still be dependent on a Govt created cost shifting mechanism thats failed miserably, and it cannot increase the deficit.

I get the Democrats want the US tax payer to bail out the failing exchanges, they're more concerned with propping up Political legacies than they are with fixing Healthcare, but throwing massive amounts of money at the problem isn't going to fix ObamaCare.
 
code1211 said:
I was under the impression that one of the reasons the ACA was passed in the first place was the rising cost of premiums.
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I just gave you an example of what he's doing and how it works. Go back to post #38. He deliberately added 21 percentage points of premium increase to BCBSTN's policies. That happened to insurers all around the country this year.
 
Greenbeard said:
I just gave you an example of what he's doing and how it works. Go back to post #38. He deliberately added 21 percentage points of premium increase to BCBSTN's policies. That happened to insurers all around the country this year.
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As with almost everything in this debate, there is rarely a clean statement of costs. I freely admit that I have a great deal of trouble understanding the whole picture.

Will the items in post 38 increase overall costs or just redistribute the costs to different payers?

The goal should be to reduce the overall costs, not to simply redistribute them.
 
code1211 said:
As with almost everything in this debate, there is rarely a clean statement of costs. I freely admit that I have a great deal of trouble understanding the whole picture.

Will the items in post 38 increase overall costs or just redistribute the costs to different payers?

The goal should be to reduce the overall costs, not to simply redistribute them.
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Trumps terminating the CSR payments disproportionately affects the states with the greatest number of CSR subsidy recepients.

Nine out of the top ten here are southern red states that Trump won in 2016.

Mississippi will now see the 2018 exchange premiums increase by 47% above the cost of the 2017 premiums due to Trump terminating the CSR subsidy payments.

This gives a fair idea of which states will suffer higher premium increases...

csr-state-map.png
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am talking about the law, that which governs us.

You are talking about your expectations.

I WIN!



:2wave:
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hmmm.. this post reminds me of the Monty Python knight claiming.. "its just a flesh wound"..

sorry dude but you just had your head handed to you.. its more than a flesh wound. Greenbeard is spot on about this. And he has the documentation to prove it.
 
Some Obamacare plans are going to get more expensive next year, whether Congress likes it or not. The deal that two senators announced Tuesday to shore up the Obamacare marketplaces might have sounded like good news to the millions who rely on them. But even if that deal were to become law (and that already is starting to look unlikely), it almost surely couldn’t happen in time[SUP]1[/SUP] to stop the fallout from President Trump’s decision to halt payments to insurers that help the lowest-income marketplace enrollees. Price increases are coming.
Price increases were happening before Trump’s announcement, but his move to cut funding to insurers means that in most places, prices on some plans will go up even more. In anticipation of this move by Trump, states have been figuring out how the additional costs should be passed on, and their approaches vary; where buyers live, how much money they earn, and how they buy their insurance will determine whether they actually pay an increase.
Using information from ACASignups.net — which tracks and analyzes ACA-related policy — and additional news sources, we’ve categorized those approaches into five groups: . . .


October 19, 2017 6:00 AMA State-By-State Guide To Those Wonky Obamacare Payments You Keep Hearing About

 
Rogue Valley said:
Trumps terminating the CSR payments disproportionately affects the states with the greatest number of CSR subsidy recepients.

Nine out of the top ten here are southern red states that Trump won in 2016.

Mississippi will now see the 2018 exchange premiums increase by 47% above the cost of the 2017 premiums due to Trump terminating the CSR subsidy payments.

This gives a fair idea of which states will suffer higher premium increases...

csr-state-map.png
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Good information, but it does not answer my question.

Will Trump's move change the total costs or just redistribute the responsibility on who is paying for them? If the effect is simply redistribution, then the problem is unchanged.

I have heard that the insurance companies are posting record profits and it's about impossible to find a hospital that is not doing huge remodeling or expansions.

There is a whole bunch of money flowing into the healthcare industry.

I'd appreciate a little austerity being introduced into the equation on the part of the providers; both the insurance and the hospitals.

Do we really need another remodel of the cafeteria to add that marble walled Starbucks kiosk?
 
code1211 said:
Will Trump's move change the total costs or just redistribute the responsibility on who is paying for them? If the effect is simply redistribution, then the problem is unchanged.
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The statewide premium increase is directly correlated to how many people in that state receive the federal CSR subsidy.

Patients who receive a subsidy will still receive healthcare, but the cost will now be borne by the non-subsidized in that state due to Trump ending federal CSR subsidy payments.

Let's take Louisiana as an example. ~64.3% required the Cost Sharing Reduction federal subsidy. But Trump ended the CSR federal subsidy payments.

What happens then is that the entire Louisiana subsidy cost is borne by the ~35.7% of people in Louisiana that do not receive the CSR federal subsidy.

Their premiums increase by 45% to cover the subsidy shortfall in Louisiana that Trump created by withholding federal payments.

It works this way in every state, but every state has a different % of CSR subsidized so the numbers change per state.

Trumps CSR action hurts Mississippi (77.6%) the most and Minnesota (16.4%) the least. Capiche?
 
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