• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Anthem pulls out of ObamaCare exchanges in Midwest, fueling GOP repeal push

Renae

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
50,241
Reaction score
19,243
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
[FONT=&quot]Citing a “volatile” market, the nation’s second-largest health insurer announced Wednesday it plans to pull out of ObamaCare exchanges in Indiana and Wisconsin next year -- a move that fueled GOP calls on Capitol Hill to upend the law.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anthem Inc. said “planning and pricing for ACA-compliant health plans has become increasingly difficult due to a shrinking and deteriorating individual market, as well as continual changes and uncertainty in federal operations, rules and guidance, including cost-sharing reduction subsidies and the restoration of taxes on fully insured coverage.”[/FONT]
Anthem pulls out of ObamaCare exchanges in Midwest, fueling GOP repeal push | Fox News

And another market collapses under the weight of a failed push to ensnare American's into a bad deal
 
Trump strikes again.

It's time to commit to funding the CSRs, stop fomenting uncertainty, and stop driving insurers out of markets.
 
Trump strikes again.

Trump hasn't done anything in the healthcare markets except make a lot of blowhard, uninformed, often contradictory statements which are occasionally disconnected from reality.

But, then, you knew that.

It's time to commit to funding the CSRs, stop fomenting uncertainty, and stop driving insurers out of markets.

yeah.... no. The time for Main Street constantly bailing out Wall Street needs to come to an end. If the current regulatory structure is so convoluted and idiotic that insurance can't be sold at a profit, then the structure needs drastic change, not additional public money.
 
Trump hasn't done anything in the healthcare markets except make a lot of blowhard, uninformed, often contradictory statements which are occasionally disconnected from reality.

This is entirely Trump's doing.

He just ran Anthem out of Indiana and Wisconsin, per the OP ("continual changes and uncertainty in federal operations, rules and guidance, including cost-sharing reduction subsidies ").

Just as he ran them out of Ohio. Just as he's causing premium spikes in North Carolina and Pennsylvania. And many other places.

Oliver Wyman: Analysis: Market Uncertainty Driving ACA Rate Increases
The nationwide survey of health insurers, conducted May 16 to May 24, found that 94 percent of respondents currently offering plans on the ACA exchanges intend to remain in that market; 6 percent intend to exit. However, if CSR payments are halted, 42 percent of respondents said they would likely withdraw from the market. The other 58 percent indicated they would refile proposed rates, with the assumption being payers would adjust rates higher to cover the loss of the CSR payments.

Anthem to bolt from Ohio health insurance exchange
The high-profile health insurer, which sells Blue Cross Blue Shield plans in 14 states including New York and California, for months has said that uncertainty over the payments used to make insurance more affordable could cause it to exit markets next year.
In addition, Republicans are trying to cut off these Obamacare subsidy payments in court proceedings and President Donald Trump has made conflicting statements about continuing paying them. [See: Trump tells advisers he wants to end key Obamacare subsidies ]
Anthem attributed the Ohio decision to volatility and uncertainty about whether the government would continue to provide cost-sharing subsidies.



Blue Cross in North Carolina:
Our ACA customers will receive an average rate increase of 22.9 percent for coverage purchased on and off the exchange. That’s according to our proposal filed with the North Carolina Department of Insurance for their review and approval.
Still, cost-sharing reductions have a big impact on North Carolinians. That became clear to our actuaries as we looked at proposed rates for 2018. If the federal funding continued, we would have filed an average increase of just 8.8 percent for 2018.

And Pennsylvania: Depending on Trump, PA insurers' rate requests could rise from 9 percent to 36 percent
Pennsylvania health insurers are requesting 2018 premium increases averaging 8.8 percent for individual plans -- but that's only if the Affordable Care Act stays as it is, state regulators announced this afternoon.

If the federal government repeals the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate, the Pennsylvania Insurance Department said, the insurers would request a 23.3 percent increase.

If insurers stop receiving cost-sharing reduction payments known as CSRs, the department said, the requested increase would be 20.3 percent.

And if both the individual mandate and the CSRs stopped, the department said, the requested increase would be 36.3 percent.

“These low percentages show that Pennsylvania’s market is stabilizing and insurers are better understanding the markets and the population they serve,” said Commissioner Miller. “I sincerely hope that Congress and the Trump Administration do not take action that could negatively impact the progress we have made in Pennsylvania.”
 
This is entirely Trump's doing.

:shrug: Trump has done nothing, ergo, no, it is not.

He just ran Anthem out of Indiana and Wisconsin, per the OP ("continual changes and uncertainty in federal operations, rules and guidance, including cost-sharing reduction subsidies ").

The Risk Corridors? Those were done away with by Marco Rubio (pbuh) and Barack Obama.

As for the plan subsidies - they aren't changing this year, and nobody thinks they are. If our current regulatory structure is so heavy and choking that insurance can't be sold at profit, then the system needs dramatic change, not subsidizing.

In the meantime, if you want to blame "uncertainty", the House is (thus far) the only one to offer up a (problematic) alternative. Trump has offered nothing.
 
Obamacare is collapsing under it's own weight, and all they have is to blame "But Republicans Are Thinking About Changes!!!" for it. :roll:
 
:shrug: Trump has done nothing, ergo, no, it is not.

Trump has threatened to defund the CSRs, which he can do any month.

Which most rational actuaries will have calculated into the 2018 premium bids due this week. (The result, as we've seen, has been either much-higher-than-otherwise-necessary premium increases or outright market exits. Thanks, Trump!)

CSR assumptions and impacts

CSR-2.png


But things get a bit odder when all carriers agree but get the government action wrong. If the carriers think the government will pay but the government does not, the outcomes are unequal. The carrier with the absolute worst value proposition is not hurt that much. No one wants to buy that product anyway. It is a minor hit for an ugly plan.

Now if a insurer offers a very attractively priced plan with a good network and good customer service, they attract all of the membership. That usually is a good thing! Not in this case. Offering the most attractive plan means that plan takes all of the losses. And if that plan goes under, the special enrollment period refugees will choose the next most attractive plan, sending it under. This is an odd winner’s curse scenario.

If there are multiple insurer and they disagree the dynamics are interesting. Insurers that assume they won’t be paid CSR always survive. They won’t get much membership as they are massively overpriced for the market. They will keep some portion of their sickest membership so they will be net risk adjustment recipients and their administrative costs relative to premiums will be very high. But they survive.

In this split decision making scenario, the carriers that are optimistic that CSR will be paid are in an all or nothing scenario. If they are right and the government pays CSR, they get almost all of the membership in the market. Assuming they priced appropriately, they should make good money for the year. If they guess wrong and CSR is not paid, they get all of the membership and the state regulators shut them down due to either a premium deficiency reserve (PDR) event as they have to come up with an extra 20 points of actuarial value that is not being compensated by the government, or there is a risk based capital problem as they have too many members to be safely covered by their current reserves.

But the dynamic changes once all of the optimistic insurers fold, liquidate or withdraw. The surviving insurer(s) will have priced appropriately to handle the special enrollment period refugees from the optimistic insurers. The pessimists will do fine in this scenario.

I am having a hard time seeing (with a strong risk aversion assumption) why a carrier would price on the assumption that CSR will be paid. There is little pay-off and great risk.

The Risk Corridors? Those were done away with by Marco Rubio (pbuh) and Barack Obama.

Cost-sharing reductions. Not the risk corridors which, yes, the GOP already screwed up.
 
Last edited:
Obamacare is collapsing under it's own weight, and all they have is to blame "But Republicans Are Thinking About Changes!!!" for it. :roll:
How can you write that with all the contrary evidence? Greenbeard has produced what the actual insurance companies were saying, namely, that the uncertainty created by Trump and company is having them raise rates and in cases, leave the marketplaces.

Plus, the CBO just two months ago stated that the ACA exchanges have stabilized and were sustainable -- right before Trump threatened to hold back payments.

But it's kind of hypocritical for conservatives, who always seem to claim that private businesses can adjust to business environments, now saying that capitalism is so fragile that business can't live with the ACA regulations that have been around for four years.
 
Obamacare is collapsing under it's own weight, and all they have is to blame "But Republicans Are Thinking About Changes!!!" for it. :roll:

I'm beginning to wonder if the best course of action wouldn't be to take no action at all. It is obvious that no one on the left wants anything to do with addressing what should be obvious to everyone... Obamacare is failing. Maybe people need to actually feel the sting before they'll come around to even acknowledging that there is a problem?

I'm to the point that I would endorse a "hands off healthcare" proposition. Let the f-ing ship sink.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if the best course of action wouldn't be to take no action at all. It is obvious that no one on the left wants anything to do with addressing what should be obvious to everyone... Obamacare is failing. Maybe people need to actually feel the sting before they'll come around to even acknowledging that there is a problem?

I'm to the point that I would endorse a "hands off healthcare" proposition. Let the f-ing ship sink.

I don't know if you noticed above, but they appear to be immune to learning. When/If that happens, Democrats will simply blame Republicans for the failure of Obamacare.
 
Trump has threatened to defund the CSRs, which he can do any month.

At various times, Trump has also suggested he could put all Muslims on a registry, defeat ISIS in 30 days, have a healthcare plan that costs more than Obamacare, have a healthcare plan that costs less than Obamacare. Build a physical wall. Build a virtual wall. Deport Dreamers. Amnesty Dreamers. Increase taxes. Lower taxes. Protect and defend Planned Parenthood. Defund Planned Parenthood. etc. so on and so forth. He has done nothing.



Which most rational actuaries will have calculated into the 2018 premium bids due this week. (The result, as we've seen, has been either much-higher-than-otherwise-necessary premium increases or outright market exits. Thanks, Trump!)

I'm fascinated with the Left's newfound appreciation for the costs of regulation and regulatory uncertainty produced by massive decisions being made by an unaccountable executive branch thanks to delegated legislative authorities. Tell me more about how you think this works, and where else it might apply.
 
He has done nothing.

Not so. He's compelled insurers to price the risk of HHS discontinuing the CSRs into next year's premium requests (or simply exit markets entirely). He and the GOP are spiking premiums just for the fun of it.
 
Obamacare is collapsing under it's own weight, and all they have is to blame "But Republicans Are Thinking About Changes!!!" for it. :roll:

what I find totally funny is that it was already collapsing and they were told it was collapsing 2 years ago and they were adamant that it wasn't and stomped their feet to no end.
now that it is they are trying to blame shift like they always do.

the ACA was never meant to be successful. it was meant to drive our healthcare system and our insurance companies into the ground. that would create another crisis in which
here comes government to the rescue with an even worse plan of single payer.

Met with a co-worker from spain. the average person over there making 55k or so pays about 40% taxes for all this free stuff.
most people in America making that couldn't afford to keep their families going.

not to mention that doesn't fully cover your healthcare. so you will need additional insurance.
what a disaster.
 
Lol...ridiculous
Insurers were in trouble long before Trump was inaugerated.

Not so much. The finances of the marketplace had stabilized before Trump showed up and started destabilizing them.

02-Gross-Profit-Individual-Market.jpg


01-Blues-MLRs.jpg


9010_figure-2.png
 
Not so much. The finances of the marketplace had stabilized before Trump showed up and started destabilizing them.

02-Gross-Profit-Individual-Market.jpg


01-Blues-MLRs.jpg


9010_figure-2.png

Lol...The ACAs failure is Trumps fault. Nice talking point you got there.
Insurers were bailing on the exchanges before Trump was inaugerated, even after Obama illegaly redirected billions of dollars to prop them up.

Here's a link to a NYTs article from February, 2 months after Trump was elected..
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...ll-out-of-obamacares-insurance-exchanges.html

So it took Trump 2 months to kill the ACA ?

And lets just forget the fact that the average deductible for a individual ob the bronze plan when Trump was elected was 6000 dollars, average deductible for a family was over 10k

Why I dont get is why you people still defend this law
 
So it took Trump 2 months to kill the ACA ?

He didn't kill the ACA. He's just sparked large premium hikes (and some insurer exits) by signaling he won't enforce the mandate and threatening not to pay the CSRs.

And lets just forget the fact that the average deductible for a individual ob the bronze plan when Trump was elected was 6000 dollars, average deductible for a family was over 10k

Why I dont get is why you people still defend this law

Silver plans are the default under the ACA. 80% of people in exchanges buy a silver-level plan or above.

If you're worried about bronze plans and deductibles you should be very concerned that the Senate GOP's bill makes bronze plans the default and eliminates cost-sharing reductions (not to mention allowing states to waive out-of-pocket spending caps). Millions of people's deductibles and cost-sharing will be going up substantially if the GOP gets its way.
 
He didn't kill the ACA. He's just sparked large premium hikes (and some insurer exits) by signaling he won't enforce the mandate and threatening not to pay the CSRs.



Silver plans are the default under the ACA. 80% of people in exchanges buy a silver-level plan or above.

If you're worried about bronze plans and deductibles you should be very concerned that the Senate GOP's bill makes bronze plans the default and eliminates cost-sharing reductions (not to mention allowing states to waive out-of-pocket spending caps). Millions of people's deductibles and cost-sharing will be going up substantially if the GOP gets its way.

10/24/2016
PBS: Obama's HHS anounces double digit premium hikes
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...ion-announces-double-digit-premium-hikes-ikes

The rapid rise in premiums and deductibles was happening before Trump was inaugerated.

This had nothing to do with the GOP or Trump and everything to do with the laws core cost shifting mechansim ( self destruct mechansim )

Shifting the higher cost for insuring older sicker Americans onto younger healthier policy holders was dependent on a minimum amount of younger people buying policies.

When that didnt happen those cost were shifted onto the Middle class and as Insurers started losing money Obama's HHS started illegally transfering billions to prop them up.

Again, this law and its current implosion had nothing to do with the GOP, and everything to do with the law.

Did you see Johnathon Gruber on Fox last night trying to defend his handywork ? Lol
 
The rapid rise in premiums and deductibles was happening before Trump was inaugerated.

It's as though you're not following the thread. Re-read post #15.

2014 and 2015 saw negative margins and MLRs>100%. Starting in 2016 that began to change: positive margins and MLRs<100%. 2017 saw a premium adjustment to correct for the underpricing of the initial years. Which is why going into 2017 most financial analysts agreed that the finances of the marketplaces had stabilized and they had turned the corner (pretty much on schedule).

Then Trump happened. His administration's actions and threats have turned single digit increases into double digits increases and in some markets they've driven payers out entirely. It's an unforced error from a belligerent buffoon.

This had nothing to do with the GOP or Trump and everything to do with the laws core cost shifting mechansim ( self destruct mechansim )

Again, review post #15. The major financial indicators in the exchanges have been improving.
 
what I find totally funny is that it was already collapsing and they were told it was collapsing 2 years ago and they were adamant that it wasn't and stomped their feet to no end.
now that it is they are trying to blame shift like they always do.

the ACA was never meant to be successful. it was meant to drive our healthcare system and our insurance companies into the ground. that would create another crisis in which
here comes government to the rescue with an even worse plan of single payer.

Met with a co-worker from spain. the average person over there making 55k or so pays about 40% taxes for all this free stuff.
most people in America making that couldn't afford to keep their families going.

not to mention that doesn't fully cover your healthcare. so you will need additional insurance.
what a disaster.
I predicted at one point that eventually Democrats would start blaming Bush for Obamacare. Close enough, I suppose.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
I'm beginning to wonder if the best course of action wouldn't be to take no action at all. It is obvious that no one on the left wants anything to do with addressing what should be obvious to everyone... Obamacare is failing. Maybe people need to actually feel the sting before they'll come around to even acknowledging that there is a problem?

I'm to the point that I would endorse a "hands off healthcare" proposition. Let the f-ing ship sink.
To the leftists, "Hands off my healthcare" doesnt mean "hands off my healthcare". It means "give me more government dollars to fund and prop up my failing healthcare plan."
 
And lets just forget the fact that the average deductible for a individual ob the bronze plan when Trump was elected was 6000 dollars, average deductible for a family was over 10k

Silver plans are the default under the ACA. 80% of people in exchanges buy a silver-level plan or above.

If you're worried about bronze plans and deductibles you should be very concerned that the Senate GOP's bill makes bronze plans the default and eliminates cost-sharing reductions (not to mention allowing states to waive out-of-pocket spending caps). Millions of people's deductibles and cost-sharing will be going up substantially if the GOP gets its way.

You sort of skated by this point but it's an important one. If one of your biggest complaints is about the average deductible under the ACA, then the GOP's bill should be an absolute nonstarter for you.

DDA70G1UAAAoJFH.jpg


Equally important, the ACA provides cost-sharing reductions that lower that $3,500 for people under 250% FPL (in some cases substantially). These are the very subsidies Trump keeps threatening to stop funding, causing insurers to jack up premiums to mitigate that risk.

The Senate GOP bill would eliminate that assistance entirely in a few years, meaning the difference in the average deductible between plans under the ACA and under the GOP's alternative is even larger than that graphic suggests. Average deductibles will go up bigly if the GOP gets its way.
 
You sort of skated by this point but it's an important one. If one of your biggest complaints is about the average deductible under the ACA, then the GOP's bill should be an absolute nonstarter for you.

DDA70G1UAAAoJFH.jpg


Equally important, the ACA provides cost-sharing reductions that lower that $3,500 for people under 250% FPL (in some cases substantially). These are the very subsidies Trump keeps threatening to stop funding, causing insurers to jack up premiums to mitigate that risk.

The Senate GOP bill would eliminate that assistance entirely in a few years, meaning the difference in the average deductible between plans under the ACA and under the GOP's alternative is even larger than that graphic suggests. Average deductibles will go up bigly if the GOP gets its way.

Lets talk about the GOP plan after it comes out of commitee, seems like a waste of time before then
 
Lets talk about the GOP plan after it comes out of commitee, seems like a waste of time before then

We know what the House wants and we know what the Senate wants (guess what: they're not very different at all). We've got all the pieces to discuss the GOP's approach. Both chambers' bills raise deductibles.

How does that make you feel?
 
We know what the House wants and we know what the Senate wants (guess what: they're not very different at all). We've got all the pieces to discuss the GOP's approach. Both chambers' bills raise deductibles.

How does that make you feel?

My Senator doesnt want the Senate version, and something tells me the Freedom Caucus isnt going to want it either. Theres a process, and Ill wait until that process coughs up a Bill destined for Trumps desk before I judge the GOPs plan.
 
Back
Top Bottom