Trump causing double digit premium increases

sangha · May 30, 2017

jaeger19 said:
right.. people so SICK and expensive that they could go without health insurance.. or health insurance for these expensive pre existing conditions.. BUT while being so sick and expensive.. they could work enough not to qualify for Medicaid..

Think about it.

IF they required medical care.. then what were they doing without medical care before Obamacare? See your narrative just doesn't logically work. The reality is that in all likelihood the people that were working and going without health insurance before Obamacare and were able to make enough money not to be on Medicaid... represent THE HEATLHIEST POPULATION OF AMERICANS.

These are people that could care less if they had healthcare because they weren't sick. THATS HOW THEY GOT BY SUCCESSFULLY WITHOUT INSURANCE.

Now.. my Medicaid statement is really relevant. Because there WERE people that were pretty sick, that were getting by somewhat without healthcare insurance. These folks couldn't work that much because they were sick/hurt. They lived on welfare benefits and what work they could do. Many were waiting for disability benefits to kick in.. or had disability benefits but didn't have healthcare benefits yet. they went to the ER's when they were too bad. These folks could even have Medicaid but there were no essential benefits.
These folks represent the under insured or the uninsured that were really expensive.. that had major problems. BUT.. they by and large weren't taken up by OBamacare exchanges. They were taken up by Medicaid and got essential benefits. So the major expense was borne not by insurance companies.. but by the states.

Private insurance companies by and large were given subsidies to handle the population that for the vast majority were not sick. AND they got subsidized on top of it.. and people were mandated to take that insurance.

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actually it does. the vast vast majority of people that qualified for the exchanges were people that were healthy.

If you are going to be dishonest about this, you should at least put some effort into it and come up with an argument that is not so blitheringly stupid.

There are plenty of medical conditions whose treatments are expensive and the patient can work even if they do not get the treatment.

Absentglare · May 30, 2017

It's really sad how uninformed republicans are on the issue of healthcare.

That's what happens when the rhetoric takes on a life of its own and sends the cart flying lightyears before the horses.

jaeger19 · May 30, 2017

sangha said:
If you are going to be dishonest about this, you should at least put some effort into it and come up with an argument that is not so blitheringly stupid.

There are plenty of medical conditions whose treatments are expensive and the patient can work even if they do not get the treatment.

Great.. throw them out there. Name a bunch of really common ones. and the jobs that they would work in that don't offer healthcare insurance. .

jaeger19 · May 30, 2017

Absentglare said:
It's really sad how uninformed republicans are on the issue of healthcare.

That's what happens when the rhetoric takes on a life of its own and sends the cart flying lightyears before the horses.

True.. and its really sad how uninformed democrats are on the issue of healthcare.. this is what happens when rhetoric takes on a life of its own.

sangha · May 30, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Great.. throw them out there. Name a bunch of really common ones.

Torn rotator cuff, diabetes, heart disease, prostate cancer

and the jobs that they would work in that don't offer healthcare insurance. .

Ever hear of the self-employed?

jaeger19 · May 31, 2017

sangha said:
Torn rotator cuff, diabetes, heart disease, prostate cancer

Ever hear of the self-employed?

and what job do you work with a torn rotator cuff that doesn't have health insurance?

Uncontrolled diabetics go into coma's and have all sorts of illness that prevent consistent work.

A patient that is easily controlled with diet or medication is not expensive.

Untreated prostate cancer kills you.

What follows are selections from various sources related to the mortality of untreated prostate cancer:

1. Prostate cancer mortality was 80% in men younger than 60 years,

Damber JE, Grönberg H .Mortality due to prostatic carcinoma in northern Sweden. : Urologe A. 1996 Nov;35(6):443-5

Ever hear of the self-employed?

sure.. and mostly they have insurance.. or they are healthy.

Perhaps you think that there are tons of painters, plumbers, carpenters and roofers self employed and working with completely torn rotator cuffs. but there aren't too many folks that can do such activities with a rotator cuff that needs surgery.

Now.. a physician? Lawyer? Accountant? sure.. possibly they are working with a torn rotator cuff. But whats the likelihood that they were going without insurance and needed to get on the exchange and be subsidized to get healthcare? Not to darn likely.

just as its not likely that any of those folks were uncontrolled diabetics and able to work.

Or had prostate cancer that was untreated and able to work for a prolonged time. And whats the incidence of prostate cancer in men under 60... ? 2% of 50 year old American men will develop cancer by the time they are 60.

Sorry.. but my premise makes sense.

sangha · May 31, 2017

jaeger19 said:
and what job do you work with a torn rotator cuff that doesn't have health insurance?

Any self-employed white collar job

Uncontrolled diabetics go into coma's and have all sorts of illness that prevent consistent work.

Plenty of people with diabetes work.

A patient that is easily controlled with diet or medication is not expensive.

And what about those that are not easily controlled with diet or medication?

Untreated prostate cancer kills you.

That is a lie.

jaeger19 · May 31, 2017

sangha said:
Any self-employed white collar job

.

sure.. there are just tons of white collar self employed professionals going without healthcare insurance and needing obamacare.. :roll:

Plenty of people with diabetes work.

Not if they are uncontrolled diabetics they don't. Kidney failure, vision loss, Myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accident etc,. tend to curtail ones work activities.

And what about those that are not easily controlled with diet or medication

?

They can be expensive if they are treated... if however, they go untreated? They tend to have severe complications like vision loss, myocardial infarction (heart attack), CVA, kidney failure, or milder complications like dizziness or fainting.. which tend to not go well with working...

That is a lie.

I presented the evidence.. if you don't like it.. that's your problem..

.

Prostate cancer mortality was 80% in men younger than 60 years,

Damber JE, Grönberg H .Mortality due to prostatic carcinoma in northern Sweden. : Urologe A. 1996 Nov;35(6):443-5

sangha · May 31, 2017

jaeger19 said:
sure.. there are just tons of white collar self employed professionals going without healthcare insurance and needing obamacare.. :roll:

Yes, there are

Not if they are uncontrolled diabetics they don't. Kidney failure, vision loss, Myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accident etc,. tend to curtail ones work activities.

Click to expand...

It usually takes years for those to happen, and guess what most of those people do in those years

They work

?

They can be expensive if they are treated... if however, they go untreated? They tend to have severe complications like vision loss, myocardial infarction (heart attack), CVA, kidney failure, or milder complications like dizziness or fainting.. which tend to not go well with working...

Click to expand...

And again, it takes years for those to happen. In the meantime, they work.

I presented the evidence.. if you don't like it.. that's your problem..

Click to expand...

No, you made a claim and posted a link that contradicts your claim.

And again, it takes years. In the meantime, they work.

.

Prostate cancer mortality was 80% in men younger than 60 years,

Click to expand...

Damber JE, Grönberg H .Mortality due to prostatic carcinoma in northern Sweden. : Urologe A. 1996 Nov;35(6):443-5

Click to expand...

Here is your claim

Untreated prostate cancer kills you.

Click to expand...

Your own link proves that a large # of men with prostate cancer do not die from it.

jaeger19 · Jun 1, 2017

Sangha said:
Yes, there are

Hmm.. prove it.

It usually takes years for those to happen, and guess what most of those people do in those years

They work

And in that case.. in those early years.. they are likely easy to control and not expensive.

No, you made a claim and posted a link that contradicts your claim.

No it doesn't contradict my claim.

Your own link proves that a large # of men with prostate cancer do not die from it.

80% of untreated men under 60 (which is the population we are talking about) die.

How you get that a large percentage of men with untreated prostate cancer under 60 do not die is beyond me.

Listen.. if you want to believe the right wing narrative that the people that went to the exchanges were made up of terribly unhealthy people with expensive medical needs.. yet.. were getting by without healthcare insurance and were able to work substantially enough to not qualify for Medicaid.. that's your right to be ignorant.

Greenbeard · Jun 1, 2017

Greenbeard said:
Yes. Trump's (and the House GOP's) actions tacked more than 14 percentage points onto BCBSNC's 2018 rate request. BCBSNC certainly won't be the last.

Yet another state illustrates the damage Trump is trying to do.

Depending on Trump, PA insurers' rate requests could rise from 9 percent to 36 percent

Pennsylvania health insurers are requesting 2018 premium increases averaging 8.8 percent for individual plans -- but that's only if the Affordable Care Act stays as it is, state regulators announced this afternoon.

If the federal government repeals the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate, the Pennsylvania Insurance Department said, the insurers would request a 23.3 percent increase.

If insurers stop receiving cost-sharing reduction payments known as CSRs, the department said, the requested increase would be 20.3 percent.

And if both the individual mandate and the CSRs stopped, the department said, the requested increase would be 36.3 percent.

“These low percentages show that Pennsylvania’s market is stabilizing and insurers are better understanding the markets and the population they serve,” said Commissioner Miller. “I sincerely hope that Congress and the Trump Administration do not take action that could negatively impact the progress we have made in Pennsylvania.”

jaeger19 · Jun 1, 2017

Greenbeard said:
Yet another state illustrates the damage Trump is trying to do.

Depending on Trump, PA insurers' rate requests could rise from 9 percent to 36 percent

or it could mean that the insurers think they have the state/government by the balls and are trying to get every dollar they think they can.

Linc · Jun 1, 2017

Greenbeard said:
Yet another state illustrates the damage Trump is trying to do.

Depending on Trump, PA insurers' rate requests could rise from 9 percent to 36 percent

Those Pennsylvania coal miners will love them some more trump with this .

jaeger19 · Jun 5, 2017

NIMBY said:
Those Pennsylvania coal miners will love them some more trump with this .

I bet they cheer him. I bet they have employer coverage that is not affected.

Its one of the main problems with the ACA. It simply didn't significantly help the vast majority of people that already had insurance (for example folks with employer coverage) . and in some ways made it worse or at least changes that were worse for most people got blamed on the ACA.