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Why Can't We Have A Private Choice?

phattonez

phattonez

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Why are the only options allowed so regulated? For instance, I want a plan that covers me if I get hit by a bus or develop cancer, pure catastrophic coverage. Why can't I have that?
 
phattonez said:
For instance, I want a plan that covers me if I get hit by a bus or develop cancer, pure catastrophic coverage. Why can't I have that?
Click to expand...

Preventative maintenance is key to keeping national healthcare costs down. If someone only goes to the hospital in extreme distress (late cancer), the cost is much greater than catching it early.

That's the basis of the mandate, which I disagree with on principle but not practicality.
 
ecofarm said:
Preventative maintenance is key to keeping national healthcare costs down. If someone only goes to the hospital in extreme distress (late cancer), the cost is much greater than catching it early.

That's the basis of the mandate, which I disagree with on principle but not practicality.
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The cost savings catch up with you, when the population lives to have more expensive treatments and enjoy social security income for fourty years instead of ten.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Someone doesn't understand how insurance risk pooling works.
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I'm not sure I understand. It is possible to price a catastrophe coverage policy as part of the pool.
 
joG said:
I'm not sure I understand. It is possible to price a catastrophe coverage policy as part of the pool.
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Because human beings are soft bags of vulnerable meat that need more health coverage than "catastrophic", which usually ends up with you dead anyway. People without insurance still get sick and injured and if they don't have insurance they end up in the ER driving up the cost for the rest of us without paying into the system.

joG said:
The cost savings catch up with you, when the population lives to have more expensive treatments and enjoy social security income for fourty years instead of ten.
Click to expand...

Let's just say **** healthcare then and let everyone who can't provide their own health insurance die of treatable conditions. The early deaths will rescue social security and make things extra cheap for you.
 
phattonez said:
Why are the only options allowed so regulated? For instance, I want a plan that covers me if I get hit by a bus or develop cancer, pure catastrophic coverage. Why can't I have that?
Click to expand...

You can have that...it's called a "high deductible health plan"....


"...If you don’t use a lot of medical services you may want to consider a High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP) paired with an Health Savings Account (HSA). This will allow you to deposit and spend tax free dollars on out-of-pocket medical expenses, can lower your tax bracket, and can qualify you for more cost assistance on the Marketplace..."

Health Insurance Deductible - Obamacare Facts


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-deductible_health_plan​
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Because human beings are soft bags of vulnerable meat that need more health coverage than "catastrophic", which usually ends up with you dead anyway. People without insurance still get sick and injured and if they don't have insurance they end up in the ER driving up the cost for the rest of us without paying into the system.



Let's just say **** healthcare then and let everyone who can't provide their own health insurance die of treatable conditions. The early deaths will rescue social security and make things extra cheap for you.
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This is the wipe-every-nose centralized government worshiping attitude of liberals

In their world individuals are too stupid to be allowed any choices that do not include government
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Because human beings are soft bags of vulnerable meat that need more health coverage than "catastrophic", which usually ends up with you dead anyway. People without insurance still get sick and injured and if they don't have insurance they end up in the ER driving up the cost for the rest of us without paying into the system.



Let's just say **** healthcare then and let everyone who can't provide their own health insurance die of treatable conditions. The early deaths will rescue social security and make things extra cheap for you.
Click to expand...

That isn't an answer to either topic.
 
The workers are mandated to take care of themselves. It's the only way modern pyramids get built.
 
Healthcare is ultimately about the relationship between the physician and the patient, the Hippocratic Oath, fairly straightforward.

The US system has devolved into one in which a profit-driven third party becomes the controlling party. That is absolutely crazy from an efficiency point of view, but we are conditioned to think this is the way it should be. That is the reason our system is so very expensive, so horribly inefficient.
 
ecofarm said:
Preventative maintenance is key to keeping national healthcare costs down. If someone only goes to the hospital in extreme distress (late cancer), the cost is much greater than catching it early.

That's the basis of the mandate, which I disagree with on principle but not practicality.
Click to expand...

That assumes mandatory higher insurance premiums (which do include some "no out of pocket cost" preventive care) will make everyone better off. Of course, that did not lower "typical" insurance premiums (or medical care costs) by about $2,500/year as promised but it did allow the federal government to add yet another entitlement to the "safety net". If one did have enough to pay for such preventive care, yet not enough to pay for the newly mandated insurance, they now may get screwed over by having to pay an added tax penalty - how, exactly, does that help everybody?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Healthcare is ultimately about the relationship between the physician and the patient, the Hippocratic Oath, fairly straightforward.

The US system has devolved into one in which a profit-driven third party becomes the controlling party. That is absolutely crazy from an efficiency point of view, but we are conditioned to think this is the way it should be. That is the reason our system is so very expensive, so horribly inefficient.
Click to expand...

It is one reason but not the only reason. EMTALA, the need to have malpractice insurance and to do all sorts of additional "just in case" lab tests/body scans to avoid claims of malpractice also inflate medical care costs.
 
ecofarm said:
Preventative maintenance is key to keeping national healthcare costs down. If someone only goes to the hospital in extreme distress (late cancer), the cost is much greater than catching it early.

That's the basis of the mandate, which I disagree with on principle but not practicality.
Click to expand...

So because preventative maintenance keeps costs down, I need to have every doctor visit, birth control, psychiatric counseling, all covered? Services that I don't want or need?

Further, where is the evidence that it's preventative maintenance that keeps costs down?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Because human beings are soft bags of vulnerable meat that need more health coverage than "catastrophic", which usually ends up with you dead anyway. People without insurance still get sick and injured and if they don't have insurance they end up in the ER driving up the cost for the rest of us without paying into the system.
Click to expand...

Therefore we have to have plans that cover birth control, pregnancy, etc.?
 
Moot said:
You can have that...it's called a "high deductible health plan"....


"...If you don’t use a lot of medical services you may want to consider a High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP) paired with an Health Savings Account (HSA). This will allow you to deposit and spend tax free dollars on out-of-pocket medical expenses, can lower your tax bracket, and can qualify you for more cost assistance on the Marketplace..."

Health Insurance Deductible - Obamacare Facts


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-deductible_health_plan​
Click to expand...

All plans in Obamacare markets must cover birth control and substance abuse treatment. I don't want these services. Why can't I get a plan that doesn't include these?
 
phattonez said:
Therefore we have to have plans that cover birth control, pregnancy, etc.?
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phattonez said:
All plans in Obamacare markets must cover birth control and substance abuse treatment. I don't want these services. Why can't I get a plan that doesn't include these?
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Once again: you don't seem to understand risk pooling. If you'd like to start an insurance company where you can pick and choose like a buffet, do that. Everyone else has decided it's not economically viable. Women don't get a cheaper price because they don't need prostate checks.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Once again: you don't seem to understand risk pooling. If you'd like to start an insurance company where you can pick and choose like a buffet, do that. Everyone else has decided it's not economically viable. Women don't get a cheaper price because they don't need prostate checks.
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What does forcing me to cover birth control have to do with risk pooling? There's no chance that I'm going to get pregnant.
 
phattonez said:
What does forcing me to cover birth control have to do with risk pooling? There's no chance that I'm going to get pregnant.
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There's no chance that a woman will need a prostate check, but by pooling the risk together it becomes affordable for the insurance agencies. If you don't like their business model you can start your own insurance company and offer specially tailored plans to individuals and lose massive sums of your own money. Go for it.

In the meantime while you're selectively slashing your own coverage in the hopes you can afford health insurance, most other major countries cover 100% of their citizens with health insurance and do it at a fraction of the cost we're paying. Naturally you don't want any of that socialist nonsense. You like your healthcare outrageously expensive and heavily compromised.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
There's no chance that a woman will need a prostate check, but by pooling the risk together it becomes affordable for the insurance agencies. If you don't like their business model you can start your own insurance company and offer specially tailored plans to individuals and lose massive sums of your own money. Go for it.
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This isn't the business model that just happens to work best. This is what has been forced on them by Obamacare.

In the meantime while you're selectively slashing your own coverage in the hopes you can afford health insurance, most other major countries cover 100% of their citizens with health insurance and do it at a fraction of the cost we're paying. Naturally you don't want any of that socialist nonsense. You like your healthcare outrageously expensive and heavily compromised.
Click to expand...

A fraction? Not exactly.

https://randomcriticalanalysis.word...ined-by-its-high-material-standard-of-living/
 
phattonez said:
Why are the only options allowed so regulated? For instance, I want a plan that covers me if I get hit by a bus or develop cancer, pure catastrophic coverage. Why can't I have that?
Click to expand...

Because the government knows what is best for you. You know nothing. You are incapable of such decisions regarding your own life. You must let the elite decide what works or doesn't work for you. That's the price we pay for such a huge humongous government.
 
phattonez said:
This isn't the business model that just happens to work best. This is what has been forced on them by Obamacare.
A fraction? Not exactly.
https://randomcriticalanalysis.word...ined-by-its-high-material-standard-of-living/
Click to expand...

No, literally a fraction. We pay the most per capita of any nation in the world for healthcare and we still have 10's of millions without any insurance and 10's of millions more with limited coverage or massive sums of medical debt. [1] You may greatly value the blogs you find on the internet, but if you have a point you need to make it yourself.

Look at yourself, you started a whine thread on the internet that you're not allowed to slash your own coverage in the hopes you could afford health insurance. That's not a normal thing in the modern world. Every man, woman and child in Germany has full coverage and it is less than half what we pay per capita. You can't tap dance around the facts, but I'm sure you'll try, because you're a masochistic idealogue who's only capable of parroting blogs he googled 5 seconds before his response.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No, literally a fraction. We pay the most per capita of any nation in the world for healthcare and we still have 10's of millions without any insurance and 10's of millions more with limited coverage or massive sums of medical debt. [1] You may greatly value the blogs you find on the internet, but if you have a point you need to make it yourself.

Look at yourself, you started a whine thread on the internet that you're not allowed to slash your own coverage in the hopes you could afford health insurance. That's not a normal thing in the modern world. Every man, woman and child in Germany has full coverage and it is less than half what we pay per capita. You can't tap dance around the facts, but I'm sure you'll try, because you're a masochistic idealogue who's only capable of parroting blogs he googled 5 seconds before his response.
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I've made a thread about this blog, it's not as if I just stumbled upon it. I'm not saying that the US system couldn't be cheaper. Certainly it could. But it's not realistic to think that we'll drastically lower costs by going with single payer. The US simply consumes much more than Europe. It's not that our prices are higher. All that single payer would do would ration care more, which maybe we need, but it's going to be unpalatable to a lot of people.
 
phattonez said:
All plans in Obamacare markets must cover birth control and substance abuse treatment. I don't want these services. Why can't I get a plan that doesn't include these?
Click to expand...

The link I provided was called "Obamacare facts" and it said you can have a "high deductible health plan." A "high deductible health plan" means that you pay for all your medical needs including pharmaceuticals up to a certain amount each year, which is usually around 5K to 10K...and if or when you spend that amount then the insurance will kick in and start covering the rest.
 
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Moot said:
The link I provided was called "Obamacare facts" and it said you can have a "high deductible health plan." A "high deductible health plan" means that you pay for all your medical needs including pharmaceuticals up to a certain amount each year, which is usually around 5K to 10K...and if or when you spend that amount then the insurance will kick in and start covering the rest.
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Straight from the healthcare.gov website.

Healthcare.gov said:
Every health plan must cover the following services:

Ambulatory patient services (outpatient care you get without being admitted to a hospital)
Emergency services
Hospitalization (like surgery and overnight stays)
Pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care (both before and after birth)
Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment (this includes counseling and psychotherapy)
Prescription drugs
Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices (services and devices to help people with injuries, disabilities, or chronic conditions gain or recover mental and physical skills)
Laboratory services
Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
Pediatric services, including oral and vision care (but adult dental and vision coverage aren’t essential health benefits)
Additional benefits

Plans must also include the following benefits:

Birth control coverage
Breastfeeding coverage
Click to expand...

I want a plan that does not cover the bold, even with a high deductible. I want no coverage for it, at all. Why can't I have that?
 
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