"Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

jaeger19 said:

Bull.. by your argument it would be great for the economy if we reduced it by 20%.

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And now you're using a straw man fallacy to try to distract from the fact you just committed a broken window fallacy.

And yes.. I think there should be changes in food stamps (does anyone actually use stamps anymore?). Vegetables, steaks, lobster, crab.. and all sorts of healthier choices should be available. Steak/meat.. when portioned correctly and cooked properly is AWESOME for people to eat. packed with proteins, vitamins and minerals.

The same for all sorts of seafood.

and foods from local farmers markets..

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I didn't explicitly include those in my proposal, but I could probably go along with that to a degree.

but we don't like seeing people on welfare eating good foods.

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Yeah apparently not, considering how extremely poor the diets are of those on food assistance, and how angry people get when it's suggested that food assistance policy should steer people toward healthier foods. Why is advocating for better public health considered "hating" the poor?

The irony is that in America.. you pretty much have to be wealthy to be thin.

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It really shouldn't have to be this way. But it is this way because our food policy is designed to keep demand for these companies' products steady:

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

jaeger19 said:

Well Cassandra. You just pointed out one of the problems with how we handled healthcare. Insurance executives ARE NOT HEALTHCARE. They are healthcare insurance.. which is a different animal.

We have been very concerned with "decreasing the cost of healthcare".. and not so much with decreasing the cost of healthcare insurance. Assuming that a decrease in healthcare costs would CAUSE a decrease in healthcare insurance bills. but healthcare insurance premiums are outstripping healthcare cost growth. Particularly when you consider the greatest growth in costs is elderly who are not on private insurance.

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You are probably aware that one reason that insurance costs have gone up in the individual market is that Repubs undermined some key provisions that insurance companies wanted in exchange for venturing into risky markets:

N.Y.Times Dec 2015:

"Mr. Rubio’s efforts against the so-called risk corridor provision of the health law have hardly risen to the forefront of the race for the Republican presidential nomination, but his plan limiting how much the government can spend to protect insurance companies against financial losses has shown the effectiveness of quiet legislative sabotage.
The risk corridors were intended to help some insurance companies if they ended up with too many new sick people on their rolls and too little cash from premiums to cover their medical bills in the first three years under the health law. But because of Mr. Rubio’s efforts, the administration says it will pay only 13 percent of what insurance companies were expecting to receive this year. The payments were supposed to help insurers cope with the risks they assumed when they decided to participate in the law’s new insurance marketplaces."

Well here is the irony. Part of the cost cutting efforts of the ACA has actually led to a call for a decrease in the amount of testing like having a colonoscopy or a mammogram. You can already here and see the results. Now you have all sorts of folks talking about reducing the number of "needless tests",.,. and how it "causes more harm than good because of the number of false positives".. That's where we are headed. And its true.. it does increase costs. That's why Britain does so much less testing for cancer (and has worse survival rates).

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As you know, the wonder of the colonoscopy is that it is more than a test- it is possible to remove growths before they become lethal. Colorectal cancer is what? second or third most common cancer type? So important!. On the other hand, I have seen over use of Cat scans-especially when care is poorly coordinated and various Doc seem unaware of what has been done before.

That's probably a bad idea. One.. the last thing you want is a community hooked on getting that tax money. Second. I don't think the tax will have that much change in behavior. Look at beer and cigarretes. Third.. the issue really isn't junk food.. its the total amount of calories.

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WHAT??!! Beer isn't a health food? Dang
Well, actually, science is demonstrating that soda is truly terrible for health-- proceed directly to diabetes, do not pass go. Recent studies show sugar in the diet to be a particular health hazard, calorie count aside. Now, if the gov't would stop subsidizing agricultural production of food which is bad for us- corn and sugar for starters., then unhealthy food would not be so cheap. Furthermore, the U.S. has been quite successful reducing smoking. If we could just do the same w eating.

I think what has a better effect is education and lowering the cost of healthy alternatives. That's what really gets us.. We need to start in schools changing peoples attitudes and understanding of food. Heck.. I include myself in this. I went to our nutritionist/dietician in the facility I have my main office simply to pick her brain a bit. I recall when we were talking about a portion of steak. And I drew my hand as a portion.. and she pointed out a healthy portion of steak is the size OF MY PALM. now who gets only a portion the size of your palm? Heck.. a steak the size of my HAND is considered a tiny steak in any restaurant.

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I agree.

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

And now you're using a straw man fallacy to try to distract from the fact you just committed a broken window fallacy.

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I didn't want to derail the thread;... but okay. First.. I did not commit a "broken window fallacy". I defy you anywhere where I advocate "breaking" or destruction of anything. Ironically.. I have multitudes of threads.. even this one where I discuss the need for preventative medicine.

If anything.. the folks that are using the broken window fallacy are the ones that are advocating the breaking the healthcare industry will help the economy.

Yeah apparently not, considering how extremely poor the diets are of those on food assistance, and how angry people get when it's suggested that food assistance policy should steer people toward healthier foods. Why is advocating for better public health considered "hating" the poor?

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Actually its hating the poor that is one of the reasons that food assistance doesn't steer toward people toward healthier foods. People don't like the idea that a poor person is getting to eat a steak which is better for them. they want to hear they are eating the cheap boxed pizza. but fresh meat? Fresh vegatables? Fresh seafood? Why that's horrible.

Under the bill, New York legislators would delegate responsibility to the state Office of Temporary Disability Assistance to create a list of “luxury food items” that enrollees in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, would be prohibited from purchasing with their food stamp subsidies.

High-end steaks and lobster should be banned, Ritchie suggests

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It really shouldn't have to be this way. But it is this way because our food policy is designed to keep demand for these companies' products steady:

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Absolutely... AND the big box stores that sell them.

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

Cassandra said:

You are probably aware that one reason that insurance costs have gone up in the individual market is that Repubs undermined some key provisions that insurance companies wanted in exchange for venturing into risky markets:

.

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Yeah... that's a large load of BS.

Think about this Cassandra... WHAT RISKY MARKET? You mean the market of people who are healthy enough to work enough not to qualify for Medicaid.. AND are healthy enough that they can GO WITHOUT HEALTHCARE INSURANCE?

That's the population we are talking about Cassandra. How are these people risky?

As you know, the wonder of the colonoscopy is that it is more than a test- it is possible to remove growths before they become lethal. Colorectal cancer is what? second or third most common cancer type? So important!. On the other hand, I have seen over use of Cat scans-especially when care is poorly coordinated and various Doc seem unaware of what has been done before.

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Well there is the utilization conundrum. You see overuse of CAT scans because 1. Defensive medicine 2. Referral for profit. In other words. Physicians that either own or work in facilities that benefit from their referral (Doc orders a CT scan) encourage that over utilization.

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

jaeger19 said:

I didn't want to derail the thread;... but okay. First.. I did not commit a "broken window fallacy". I defy you anywhere where I advocate "breaking" or destruction of anything. Ironically.. I have multitudes of threads.. even this one where I discuss the need for preventative medicine.

If anything.. the folks that are using the broken window fallacy are the ones that are advocating the breaking the healthcare industry will help the economy.



Actually its hating the poor that is one of the reasons that food assistance doesn't steer toward people toward healthier foods. People don't like the idea that a poor person is getting to eat a steak which is better for them. they want to hear they are eating the cheap boxed pizza. but fresh meat? Fresh vegatables? Fresh seafood? Why that's horrible.





Absolutely... AND the big box stores that sell them.

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Wanna jump on this wagon real fast....

Someone asked me what the difference between Japan and America's health care system, I said Japan has a basic universal health care system, that many people like. The biggest difference is the responsibilities of the actual people.

Japanese in general take care of themselves be it food, exercise and daily regimens that they follow, American people yeah... well we kinda see where this is going...... now I am being extremely vague here and more so generally speaking, I am in idiot... but give me a moment to digest this.

Generally speaking, where I am from someone gets sick, or cuts their hand, they run to the doctor and the first thing is, "do you need a doctors note from work".... more so here comes the TDI and Workers Comp and trying to milk the system for additional days off. So they dont have to work.... what kinda BS is that...

The Japanese throw a mask on and work 60+ hours a week. again generalizing, but I am sure you get my point.

Then I say, well lets not even go there, lets go north, Canadas got their "universal" health care right? Think about it, freaking 20* half of the damn year, no wonder they have to keep themselves healthy.....and universal health care works there because the people choose to take care of themselves.

Americans have become lazy and entitled, now this is not everyone but a good darn majority of them.

Lets be realistic for a moment, I walk down a beautiful beach..... and what do I see....... Fat overweight/unhealthy people, yeah there a couple of those beach bods.... but generally speaking looking at the "generalized' unhealthy people there...... yeah you get my point.


ACA was a handout, sure it played on the heartstrings of the american people as it gave coverage to those that had prior/existing conditions. BUT..... for a moment, if we think about the percentage that could NOT actually afford it and just had bad luck i.e. bad Genes, this was a blessing, In comparison to the unhealthy, poor choice individual that did not take care of themselves and suffer from bad health situations and or bad financial choices forcing them to be unable to afford health insurance......why should I feel sorry for them.


Someone brought up a funny example, its like being forced to buy "auto" insurance, in another thread. No its NOT, with that you are saying your car has a huge dent on the hood, or the whole front end is damaged, the Auto Insurances is forced to then take you as a client and then you can make a claim to repair the existing damage? How the hell does that work? the insurance company will go broke for paying for damages, that they are not responsible for.

Here is a good one, I only buy insurance when I need it, so I buy a brand new car $25,000, I choose not to buy auto insurance, it gets stolen a week later, im out $25,000 OH wait, ACA so no prior conditions, I will sign up for "Auto insurance" I sign up and report that my car got stolen, And the "insurance company" Pays me $24,000 for my car yet I only paid $500 the first month for Auto Insurance, so the company is now out $23,500, because I can pick and chose with NO repercussion.

In the insurance Property and Casualty world that is Insurance fraud......


In the Medical Insurance world.... thats ACA or Ob@macare....

Thats why you have rules, like no pre existing conditions/ damages.... its no different.... yet because we want to win the hearts and minds, we propose the ludicrous bills with no foresight or common sense.....

Money and resources are NOT free...... but people want free stuff..........

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

Exactice said:

Wanna jump on this wagon real fast....

Someone asked me what the difference between Japan and America's health care system, I said Japan has a basic universal health care system, that many people like. The biggest difference is the responsibilities of the actual people.

Japanese in general take care of themselves be it food, exercise and daily regimens that they follow, American people yeah... well we kinda see where this is going...... now I am being extremely vague here and more so generally speaking, I am in idiot... but give me a moment to digest this.

Generally speaking, where I am from someone gets sick, or cuts their hand, they run to the doctor and the first thing is, "do you need a doctors note from work".... more so here comes the TDI and Workers Comp and trying to milk the system for additional days off. So they dont have to work.... what kinda BS is that...

The Japanese throw a mask on and work 60+ hours a week. again generalizing, but I am sure you get my point.

Then I say, well lets not even go there, lets go north, Canadas got their "universal" health care right? Think about it, freaking 20* half of the damn year, no wonder they have to keep themselves healthy.....and universal health care works there because the people choose to take care of themselves.

Americans have become lazy and entitled, now this is not everyone but a good darn majority of them.

Lets be realistic for a moment, I walk down a beautiful beach..... and what do I see....... Fat overweight/unhealthy people, yeah there a couple of those beach bods.... but generally speaking looking at the "generalized' unhealthy people there...... yeah you get my point.


ACA was a handout, sure it played on the heartstrings of the american people as it gave coverage to those that had prior/existing conditions. BUT..... for a moment, if we think about the percentage that could NOT actually afford it and just had bad luck i.e. bad Genes, this was a blessing, In comparison to the unhealthy, poor choice individual that did not take care of themselves and suffer from bad health situations and or bad financial choices forcing them to be unable to afford health insurance......why should I feel sorry for them.


Someone brought up a funny example, its like being forced to buy "auto" insurance, in another thread. No its NOT, with that you are saying your car has a huge dent on the hood, or the whole front end is damaged, the Auto Insurances is forced to then take you as a client and then you can make a claim to repair the existing damage? How the hell does that work? the insurance company will go broke for paying for damages, that they are not responsible for.

Here is a good one, I only buy insurance when I need it, so I buy a brand new car $25,000, I choose not to buy auto insurance, it gets stolen a week later, im out $25,000 OH wait, ACA so no prior conditions, I will sign up for "Auto insurance" I sign up and report that my car got stolen, And the "insurance company" Pays me $24,000 for my car yet I only paid $500 the first month for Auto Insurance, so the company is now out $23,500, because I can pick and chose with NO repercussion.

In the insurance Property and Casualty world that is Insurance fraud......


In the Medical Insurance world.... thats ACA or Ob@macare....

Thats why you have rules, like no pre existing conditions/ damages.... its no different.... yet because we want to win the hearts and minds, we propose the ludicrous bills with no foresight or common sense.....

Money and resources are NOT free...... but people want free stuff..........

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I'd like to say that generalizations are called generalizations for a reason, because, for the most part, they are true. I remember once when some Japanese (business person I believe) said that American workers were lazy and he really got crapped on for saying that. It was of course a generalization but it was a true generalization, as generalizations are true.

Re: "Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, I'm standing here today alive,"

Moderate Right said:

I'd like to say that generalizations are called generalizations for a reason, because, for the most part, they are true. I remember once when some Japanese (business person I believe) said that American workers were lazy and he really got crapped on for saying that. It was of course a generalization but it was a true generalization, as generalizations are true.

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Hate to say I am a hypocrite trying to be politically correct..... but.... again...... no foresight and common sense....these guys supposed to understand and lead the country, not ruin it....