Obamacare's death spirals appear on the horizon.

With the fourth open-enrollment period set to begin this fall for the marketplaces set up by the Affordable Care Act, it’s becoming clear that the market for health insurance has not evolved as expected, or hoped.The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.
As a result, some large national insurance companies, including UnitedHealthcare, Humana and Aetna, plan to abandon markets across the country next year. And health insurers in Wisconsin are proposing the largest rate increases yet for health plans sold on the online marketplaces throughout the state.
The proposed increases could range from 5.44% to 37.88% statewide, according to filings with the federal government. In Milwaukee County, the smallest proposed increase is 9.06%.

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Health insurers eye steep increases

I take umbrage with this article in that this sentence is a lie:
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Lots of us opposing this disaster saw the above as inevitable. [/FONT]

Renae said:

Health insurers eye steep increases

I take umbrage with this article in that this sentence is a lie:
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Lots of us opposing this disaster saw the above as inevitable. [/FONT]

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I take umbrage that you had the audacity and temerity to call three separate and distinct sentences, "this sentence." So there.

I've always thought that the PPACA was designed like Alka-Seltzer, it was built to fall apart. By doing so, it would be but a stepping stone to Single Payer / Medicaid for all.

We've already gotten the "Plop-Plop" and now we're starting to see the "Fizz-Fizz" with no relief expected or possible.

Beaudreaux said:

I take umbrage that you had the audacity and temerity to call three separate and distinct sentences, "this sentence." So there.

I've always thought that the PPACA was designed like Alka-Seltzer, it was built to fall apart. By doing so, it would be but a stepping stone to Single Payer / Medicaid for all.

We've already gotten the "Plop-Plop" and now we're starting to see the "Fizz-Fizz" with no relief expected or possible.

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Now just think, if you'd been a civilized country and just done single payer from the beginning, you wouldn't have these problems :shrug:

Jetboogieman said:

Now just think, if you'd been a civilized country and just done single payer from the beginning, you wouldn't have these problems :shrug:

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Yup, we'd be even worse off than we are already.

Beaudreaux said:

Yup, we'd be even worse off than we are already.

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Haha it's hilarious you think that.

Singapore apparently has great universal health care, and they recycle their sewage into drinking water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEWater

Jetboogieman said:

Haha it's hilarious you think that.

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If the US federal government wanted only to pay for medical health care and they had a viable way to pay for it that wouldn't harm our economy, then we could talk about it - oh yeah, then there's the little thing called the Constitution that comes into play.

However, the US federal government doesn't just want to pay for medical health care. It wants to control it. That, I will never agree to or with. I pay for private insurance and have private doctors because the federal government can't even run the VA medical health care system.

I feel that any state that wants to have single payer for it's citizens, has the power under the federal Constitution to do so - like Romney Care. The federal government does not have the Constitutional Power to do such a thing. And, nor should they.

Jetboogieman said:

Now just think, if you'd been a civilized country and just done single payer from the beginning, you wouldn't have these problems :shrug:

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There is nothing civilized about relying on the Government for your health.

Renae said:

Health insurers eye steep increases

I take umbrage with this article in that this sentence is a lie:
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Lots of us opposing this disaster saw the above as inevitable. [/FONT]

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Right, but this is why the so called "experts" are increasingly being disregarded.

Renae said:

Health insurers eye steep increases

I take umbrage with this article in that this sentence is a lie:
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Lots of us opposing this disaster saw the above as inevitable. [/FONT]

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When I look at the numbers in the article, it seems more but more likely less, than what I would expect from the social medicine in Europe. In Germany the family with $ 80.000 and paying $ 7.140 p.a. for insurance would probably pay about $ 12.400 but is set to rise. So obviously paying $ 7.000 in a country with higher health care requirements and costs is much too little that insurance companies cannot sustain. Now, I realize that we would have to look at what the policies pay for and a number of other covenants, but a society cannot use healthcare amounting to 11.3 percent of GDP like Germany does without carrying that level of cost. The social democracies of Europe take different paths in paying for this, but in Germany it translates into a levy on wages varying between 14.5 and 18 percent over time. So, if the US is presently allocating 17 percent of GDP to health care, the price to the consumer cannot be less than in the social democracies experience. Realistically an American worker should probably be paying between 18 and 22 percent of her income for the insurance. The $ 80.000 worker should then not pay $ 7.140 premium but somewhere around $ 16.000.

Renae said:

There is nothing civilized about relying on the Government for your health.

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Oh, I would not say it did not require civilization to have a society in which people rely on government. It is just that such societies have decided to have an inefficient economy.

Renae said:

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Lots of us opposing this disaster saw the above as inevitable. [/FONT]

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You saw it as inevitable that insurers would set premiums 20% below projections and end up with -5% margins on exchange business? If only some genius could figure out a way to come in way below cost projections and still make a profit. Hmm!

Greenbeard said:

You saw it as inevitable that insurers would set premiums 20% below projections and end up with -5% margins on exchange business? If only some genius could figure out a way to come in way below cost projections and still make a profit. Hmm!

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Thats why the exchanges are failing right?