Vaccinations before School??

vegas giants · Dec 7, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Nice try.

You make a claim that has zero evidence..

I point out my claim.. which is that the vast vast vast number of children are given their vaccinations before 15 months age. That's when the vaccinations are given.. and their boosters at 4-5.

If you doubt the evidence.. go to any US government or state website on when children should be vaccinated. The only two vaccinations.. which generally are not mandatory (nor should be) that happen later.. are the HPV vaccine, and a vaccine for meningitis.

the ones people are talking about here.. the mumps measles rubella... and pertussis are done when children are infants or toddlers.

Nah. We won this debate a long time ago. Your kid stays home

Quag · Dec 8, 2017

joG said:
I wonder, if the state has different qualities of schools, that seems discriminating.

As long as people are involved and in the case of schools the major factor in the quality of education they can all be the same.

Quag · Dec 8, 2017

jaeger19 said:
no.. now you are being intellectually dishonest. the kids cannot be expulsed from schools from refusing to follow.. any code". the codes/rules.. pertaining to violence, or drugs? yes. but they are not being suspended for school because little timmy didn't walk in a straight line in school. Or because little timmy didn't bring his library book back in a timely manner.

You are trying and failing with your strawman again.
A school can refuse children for dress code violations and allow them only once they comply, same with vaccinations. Schools can refuse entry to children due to having lice, allowing them back when the lice are gone. Schools can also expulse children for attitude/behavior that have nothing to do with violence or drugs.

Yep.. the amount of people that voluntarily get vaccinated in this country provides protection to all those that are not vaccinated either because of religious reasons, choice, or because of medical reasons.

Two problems with this claim. First herd immunity doesn't mean no one can get sick an unvaccinated person can still get sick and a sick person can pass it to another unvaccinated person. Secondly the spread of pseudo science quackery claimign vaccinations are dangerous has increased the number of people that dont get vaccinations.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...outbreaks-report-says/?utm_term=.97ba76c215c1
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6627a1.htm

Wrong.. they cannot refuse entry to any student based on arbitrary rules. If they could.. then a school could ban black children.. or Hispanic kids.. or gay kids, or Kids with blue eyes., or kids who voice their opinion, or kids who won't pray .. etc.

Schools can and do refuse entry based on dress, attitude and behavior.

quoteSchools ARE NOT allowed to refuse entry.. based on arbitrary rules. Schools have a VERY limited reason they can refuse entry... and that occurs with violence and drugs for the most part. [/quote]
See above.

IF you claim that unvaccinated kids are not allowed because of public safety.. then to be consistent.. ALL children who are unvaccinated would have to be refused entry.. regardless of reason.

No, getting those who can get vacinated is to protect those who cannot

I am not sure here if you are being obtuse.. or simply are incapable of understanding the point regarding segregation.

YOUR premise is that a vaccination mandate must be constitutional.. simply because its the law of the land.

False equivalency and strawman. There is no comparison to segregation and it is constitutional because the concept of schools making rules/codes that students have to follow to enter that don't involve violence or drugs is well established despite your false claims to the contrary.

The fact that segregation was the law of the land... and was once found constitutional.. but now is widely considered to be seen as unconstitutional.. destroys your premise

No it doesnt because you are making a false equivalencies

In no way.. did I compare segregation with school safety. That's your strawman.

No you just make false equivalencies and strawmen.

Quag · Dec 8, 2017

lefty louie said:
What places, pretty much everywhere unless you get an exemption.

So the USA forces everyone to get vaccinated? How many people have been jailed and strapped down/vaccinated against their will? Why is this not all over the news?
Or perhaps are you just misusing the term forced to mean people are doing it because they dont want the inconvenience of going to a different school farther away or private school or homeschool?

zyzygy · Dec 8, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Of course I have evidence of that. I own medical clinics.

A claim is not evidence. Would you like to name some of these clinics?

jaeger19 · Dec 8, 2017

Quag said:
You are trying and failing with your strawman again.
A school can refuse children for dress code violations and allow them only once they comply, same with vaccinations. Schools can refuse entry to children due to having lice, allowing them back when the lice are gone. Schools can also expulse children for attitude/behavior that have nothing to do with violence or drugs.
.

No.. a school cannot refuse education for a child for dress code violations... sure.. they can try suspension.. but expulsion? No. Yes.. a school can refuse entry to children due to having lice..... but they cannot pick and choose which children can come with lice.. and which children cannot go to school with lice.

and pretty much.. no.. schools cannot expel students for behavior unrelated to drugs or violence.

Two problems with this claim. First herd immunity doesn't mean no one can get sick an unvaccinated person can still get sick and a sick person can pass it to another unvaccinated person. Secondly the spread of pseudo science quackery claimign vaccinations are dangerous has increased the number of people that dont get vaccinations

See.. and now you are waffling. first heard immunity protects those unvaccinated.. then it doesn't.

Look.. the facts are.. that there is no need for a mandate. EVEN if you take into account those people that for whatever reason choose to ignore their physician.. it doesn;t appreciably increase risk. Just llke letting an unvaccinated kid for medical reasons does not significantly increase risk.

Schools can and do refuse entry based on dress, attitude and behavior.

When related to violence or drugs yes. But not when say.. the school decides that all girls must wear a head covering.

Face facts.. schools are VERY limited in how they can expel or refuse entry to a student. Its not simply for arbitrary reasons.

No, getting those who can get vacinated is to protect those who cannot

AND it protects those that choose not to get vaccinated.

False equivalency and strawman. There is no comparison to segregation and it is constitutional because the concept of schools making rules/codes that students have to follow to enter that don't involve violence or drugs is well established despite your false claims to the contrary.

Stop. you are making a strawman.

Segregation came up because of your argument that the vaccination mandate was constitutional because it was the law of the land.

I pointed out accurately that segregation was also the law of the land.. and is now seen as unconstitutional.

No it doesnt because you are making a false equivalencies

you need to look up the definition of false equivalency, and strawman argument. Because you are dead wrong.

jaeger19 · Dec 8, 2017

zyzygy said:
A claim is not evidence. Would you like to name some of these clinics?

the evidence is the fact that vaccination for almost all significant diseases.. occurs by 15 months of age.. and the boosters for those occurs in the 4-5 year range.. AGAIN before school is an issue.

If you have evidence that the vast majority of children.. ARE NOT following their physicians recommendations.. and waiting until they are 6 years old to start their vaccinations... then I would like you to present that evidence.

vegas giants · Dec 8, 2017

jaeger19 said:
the evidence is the fact that vaccination for almost all significant diseases.. occurs by 15 months of age.. and the boosters for those occurs in the 4-5 year range.. AGAIN before school is an issue.

If you have evidence that the vast majority of children.. ARE NOT following their physicians recommendations.. and waiting until they are 6 years old to start their vaccinations... then I would like you to present that evidence.

We don't have to provide evidence of a negative. I would like evidence they are

joG · Dec 9, 2017

Quag said:
As long as people are involved and in the case of schools the major factor in the quality of education they can all be the same.

True. Humans are not all the same. Some teach better and others poorly. That is a problem. But it is not this problem. Public schools seem to be systematically of different qualities. This is true by areas and by the social class of the parents.

Quag · Dec 9, 2017

jaeger19 said:
No.. a school cannot refuse education for a child for dress code violations... sure.. they can try suspension.. but expulsion? No.

Same with vaccinations, you wear the proper attire you may return, you get the vaccin ations you may return

Yes.. a school can refuse entry to children due to having lice..... but they cannot pick and choose which children can come with lice.. and which children cannot go to school with lice.

They dont choose who gets vaccinated wither, the parents do, once the lice are taken care of the student can return, same as vaccinations.

and pretty much.. no.. schools cannot expel students for behavior unrelated to drugs or violence.

Yeah already proven false.

See.. and now you are waffling. first heard immunity protects those unvaccinated.. then it doesn't.

No I just understand what herd immunity is unlike you apparently.

Look.. the facts are.. that there is no need for a mandate. EVEN if you take into account those people that for whatever reason choose to ignore their physician.. it doesn;t appreciably increase risk. Just llke letting an unvaccinated kid for medical reasons does not significantly increase risk.

Yeah it does
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...outbreaks-report-says/?utm_term=.6186a1ba2f90
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6627a1.htm

When related to violence or drugs yes. But not when say.. the school decides that all girls must wear a head covering.

Face facts.. schools are VERY limited in how they can expel or refuse entry to a student. Its not simply for arbitrary reasons.

Already proven they can expel for non violent behavior and requiring vaccinations is like dress codes, you do not enter until you comply, it isn't expulsion.

AND it protects those that choose not to get vaccinated.

???? Not getting vaccinated protects those who dont get vaccinated?
Either you worded that poorly or you are in serious need of education.

Stop. you are making a strawman.

That would be your specialty.

Segregation came up because of your argument that the vaccination mandate was constitutional because it was the law of the land.

No segregation came up because YOU claimed it was unconstitutional and failing miserably in that argument decided top make a false equivalency that fails as well
However if you disagree with me you are free to try and take this to the supreme court. I predict a lot of wasted time and money on your part.

I pointed out accurately that segregation was also the law of the land.. and is now seen as unconstitutional.

So was slavery, neither have anything to do with school requiring vaccinations for those who can to protect those who cannot.

you need to look up the definition of false equivalency, and strawman argument. Because you are dead wrong.

That would be you who are mistaken

Quag · Dec 9, 2017

joG said:
True. Humans are not all the same. Some teach better and others poorly. That is a problem. But it is not this problem. Public schools seem to be systematically of different qualities. This is true by areas and by the social class of the parents.

True, generally the lower the class of the neighborhood the poorer the quality of education (there are as always exceptions). I think this is more a societal problem than an education one per say.

jaeger19 · Dec 10, 2017

vegas giants said:
We don't have to provide evidence of a negative. I would like evidence they are

Actually.. yes.. you have to provide evidence that without a mandate.. the vast majority of children would not be vaccinated. That's your argument..

I have already provided evidence that children vaccination is usually done by 15 months and their booster by 4-5.

vegas giants · Dec 12, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Actually.. yes.. you have to provide evidence that without a mandate.. the vast majority of children would not be vaccinated. That's your argument..

I have already provided evidence that children vaccination is usually done by 15 months and their booster by 4-5.

No I don't have to provide such evidence. Your kid stays home. Problem solved for me

jaeger19 · Dec 12, 2017

vegas giants said:
No I don't have to provide such evidence. Your kid stays home. Problem solved for me

Your failure is noted.

vegas giants · Dec 12, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Your failure is noted.

So is your kids empty seat. LOL