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Vaccinations before School??

Quag said:
Nope



And now it isnt.
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Yep.

And yet prior to that time... folks made the same argument that segregation WAS constitutional.. by virtue of being the law of the land...
 
Quag said:
Schools can keep children from attending based on behaviour, refusal to comply with dress code or for ANY school rules/codes. It isnt jsut about safety, though vaccinations ARE about safetly.
You can take it to court if you want but I predict you will spend a lot of money and lose.
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Wow.. look at you run around with the goal posts in your arms!.

Yes.. schools can TEMPORARILY suspend kids from school for various infractions. However, since children have a right to go to school, any case of expulsion can only occur generally with violence, or drugs.

You can take it to court if you want but I predict you will spend a lot of money and lose.
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When segregation was first taken to court.. it was found constitutional ..... does that mean that segregation is actually constitutional?
 
jaeger19 said:
Right. your argument is based on the assumption that the vast majority of parents are too stupid to listen to their medical provider. And that's just not supported by the facts.

The vast vast vast majority of kids are vaccinated currently WELL before going to school is even an issue. Which pretty much blows your "if we let them we could end up with half the kids unvaccinated".
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You have no evidence of that. Many kids show up at school and have not completed their vaccinations and are told to go get them. Their parents do it so their kids can go to school. We are not going to open the floodgates. Even the potential is too dangerous
 
Bodhisattva said:
He has REPEATEDLY stated and shown that he DOES understand your argument. He is showing that your argument is wrong.
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No, he hasnt shown that and so I dont believe that he does understand it and no, my argument isnt wrong.
 
jaeger19 said:
Truly unbelievable that you don't understand this.

Okay.. lets try another tack to get you to think beyond your irrational fear. IF what you say is true. that the numbers of unvaccinated by parental choice are so much larger and potential for unlimited growth..

Please explain why the vast vast vast number of children are vaccinated by their parents... well before going to school and having a mandate is even an issue?

The fact is.. parents are already acting responsibly. without a mandate.
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??? :doh This wouldnt even be a topic if that wasnt an issue. The re-emergence of childhood diseases in many (not all) cases is directly due to this.

Please. You are just wasting my time. Now that you may--or may not--have managed to understand my point, now you are trying to make your argument conform to that. ANd it's not working.
 
Lursa said:
No, he hasnt shown that and so I dont believe that he does understand it and no, my argument isnt wrong.
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He has. I have seen it. Repeatedly.
 
Quag said:
Talking about the financial inconvenience.
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There is that. It is a measure of how large the misallocation is from public production of this particular private product.
 
vegas giants said:
You have no evidence of that. Many kids show up at school and have not completed their vaccinations and are told to go get them. Their parents do it so their kids can go to school. We are not going to open the floodgates. Even the potential is too dangerous
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Of course I have evidence of that. I own medical clinics. The vast vast vast number of children are given their vaccinations before 15 months of age.. and their boosters are at 4-5 before even school is an issue. that's just the facts.

When kids show up for school.. if they "don't have their vaccinations". Its number one.. because they don't have a RECORD of those vaccinations.. and so they have to go back to the doctor and get their immunization records. Requests for that come through all the time. those kids are already immunized.. they just need a record of it.

The actual group of people that are not immunized are illegal immigrants from poor nations where immunization is not easily accessible as children.
 
jaeger19 said:
Of course I have evidence of that. I own medical clinics. The vast vast vast number of children are given their vaccinations before 15 months of age.. and their boosters are at 4-5 before even school is an issue. that's just the facts.

When kids show up for school.. if they "don't have their vaccinations". Its number one.. because they don't have a RECORD of those vaccinations.. and so they have to go back to the doctor and get their immunization records. Requests for that come through all the time. those kids are already immunized.. they just need a record of it.

The actual group of people that are not immunized are illegal immigrants from poor nations where immunization is not easily accessible as children.
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That is not evidence. That is a claim. Youe lack of evidence dismisses your claim.
 
lefty louie said:
No your no relevant (your argument) because there are places that do force you.
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What places are these?
If vaccines are so good why do they have to force them on you, why do they have to force medical professionals to get them?
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Unfortunately there are people who cannot get vaccinated and there are even more who ignore science and isntead listen to CT sites and choose not to based on nonsense.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yep.

And yet prior to that time... folks made the same argument that segregation WAS constitutional.. by virtue of being the law of the land...
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Attempt at deflection is noted
 
jaeger19 said:
Wow.. look at you run around with the goal posts in your arms!.

Yes.. schools can TEMPORARILY suspend kids from school for various infractions. However, since children have a right to go to school, any case of expulsion can only occur generally with violence, or drugs. [/quote ¸
No goalposts beign moved just pointing out the error in your argument. If the children continue to refuse to obey school rules/codes they will not return. Same with vaccinations.

When segregation was first taken to court.. it was found constitutional ..... does that mean that segregation is actually constitutional?
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Irrelevant strawman that has no relation to what wer are talkning about
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joG said:
There is that. It is a measure of how large the misallocation is from public production of this particular private product.
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It depends on what the parents consider important
 
Quag said:
jaeger19 said:
Wow.. look at you run around with the goal posts in your arms!.

Yes.. schools can TEMPORARILY suspend kids from school for various infractions. However, since children have a right to go to school, any case of expulsion can only occur generally with violence, or drugs. [/quote ¸
No goalposts beign moved just pointing out the error in your argument. If the children continue to refuse to obey school rules/codes they will not return. Same with vaccinations.


Irrelevant strawman that has no relation to what wer are talkning about
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Yeah no. You changed the goal posts from expulsion.. to suspension. And if children refuse to obey the rules/codes.. then alternative public education will still have to be found for them. usually in a different public school or alternative public school

And its not an irrelevant strawman.

So far.. you and others argument about the constitutionality of the mandate on vaccinations.. has been 1. public safety. But if that was the case.. then all unvaccinated kids would not be allowed to go to school

2. "but its the law now".. and as I point out.. segregation was not only the law.. but was found to be constitutional by the supreme court before it was finally struck down. So your argument.. "its the law" is not a valid point.
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jaeger19 said:
Yeah no. You changed the goal posts from expulsion.. to suspension. And if children refuse to obey the rules/codes.. then alternative public education will still have to be found for them. usually in a different public school or alternative public school

And its not an irrelevant strawman.
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No you are making a strawman. If you continue to refuse to follow the rules/codes you will not return, same with a rules about getting vaccinated.

So far.. you and others argument about the constitutionality of the mandate on vaccinations.. has been 1. public safety. But if that was the case.. then all unvaccinated kids would not be allowed to go to school
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No, getting those who can get vacinated is to protect those who cannot.

2. "but its the law now".. and as I point out.. segregation was not only the law.. but was found to be constitutional by the supreme court before it was finally struck down. So your argument.. "its the law" is not a valid point.
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Again you miss the point. If a school can refuse entry to any student based on their arbitrary rules that do NOT involve only the security of students then they can for vaccinations as well that can affect the health ands safety of students.
So if we use your silly segregation claims then schools cannot have any rules/codes that arent only about health and safety of children. Fortunatley most of us can a false equivalencey for what it is.
 
Quag said:
It depends on what the parents consider important
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You mean doing the children damage by putting them in less good schools to save money? Bur that doesn't mean that schools are public goods, one way or the other.
 
joG said:
You mean doing the children damage by putting them in less good schools to save money? Bur that doesn't mean that schools are public goods, one way or the other.
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If thats what the parents decide to do, mind you there are good and bad public schools just as there are goofd and bad private schools. The ratios of course are not the same. My children went to 2 different public schools. 1 is ranked 10th out over over 500. Only 1 public school did better but it isnt near me and the majority of private schools dont rank as well. The other child chose a different school and we agreed because that school has a specialty music program and they are very musically inclined.
 
vegas giants said:
That is not evidence. That is a claim. Youe lack of evidence dismisses your claim.
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Nice try.

You make a claim that has zero evidence..

I point out my claim.. which is that the vast vast vast number of children are given their vaccinations before 15 months age. That's when the vaccinations are given.. and their boosters at 4-5.

If you doubt the evidence.. go to any US government or state website on when children should be vaccinated. The only two vaccinations.. which generally are not mandatory (nor should be) that happen later.. are the HPV vaccine, and a vaccine for meningitis.

the ones people are talking about here.. the mumps measles rubella... and pertussis are done when children are infants or toddlers.
 
Quag said:
If thats what the parents decide to do, mind you there are good and bad public schools just as there are goofd and bad private schools. The ratios of course are not the same. My children went to 2 different public schools. 1 is ranked 10th out over over 500. Only 1 public school did better but it isnt near me and the majority of private schools dont rank as well. The other child chose a different school and we agreed because that school has a specialty music program and they are very musically inclined.
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I wonder, if the state has different qualities of schools, that seems discriminating. ;)
 
Quag said:
No you are making a strawman. If you continue to refuse to follow the rules/codes you will not return, same with a rules about getting vaccinated.

.
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no.. now you are being intellectually dishonest. the kids cannot be expulsed from schools from refusing to follow.. any code". the codes/rules.. pertaining to violence, or drugs? yes. but they are not being suspended for school because little timmy didn't walk in a straight line in school. Or because little timmy didn't bring his library book back in a timely manner.

No, getting those who can get vacinated is to protect those who cannot.
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Yep.. the amount of people that voluntarily get vaccinated in this country provides protection to all those that are not vaccinated either because of religious reasons, choice, or because of medical reasons.

Again you miss the point. If a school can refuse entry to any student based on their arbitrary rules
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Wrong.. they cannot refuse entry to any student based on arbitrary rules. If they could.. then a school could ban black children.. or Hispanic kids.. or gay kids, or Kids with blue eyes., or kids who voice their opinion, or kids who won't pray .. etc.

Schools ARE NOT allowed to refuse entry.. based on arbitrary rules. Schools have a VERY limited reason they can refuse entry... and that occurs with violence and drugs for the most part.

IF you claim that unvaccinated kids are not allowed because of public safety.. then to be consistent.. ALL children who are unvaccinated would have to be refused entry.. regardless of reason.


So if we use your silly segregation claims then schools cannot have any rules/codes that arent only about health and safety of children. Fortunatley most of us can a false equivalencey for what it is.
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I am not sure here if you are being obtuse.. or simply are incapable of understanding the point regarding segregation.

YOUR premise is that a vaccination mandate must be constitutional.. simply because its the law of the land.


The fact that segregation was the law of the land... and was once found constitutional.. but now is widely considered to be seen as unconstitutional.. destroys your premise

In no way.. did I compare segregation with school safety. That's your strawman.
 
Quag said:
What places are these?

Unfortunately there are people who cannot get vaccinated and there are even more who ignore science and isntead listen to CT sites and choose not to based on nonsense.
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What places, pretty much everywhere unless you get an exemption.
 
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