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Vaccinations before School??

Lursa said:
Yes we do and once again you illustrate why the more people vaccinated, the lower the risks to general public health. You keep reinforcing my point, which I appreciate. Yet you seem not to.

And no one is forcing the kids to get vaccinations. If parents choose not to, their kids just cant go to public school....the parents can just make other educational arrangements for their kids.
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They can and do send them to school... as I already showed.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Then get your kid vaccinated and hope it works... problem solved unless you hit a life ain't fair square.
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And what if, as pointed out, your child cannot be vaccinated? Due to allergies, compromised immune system? Take the microbes home to their unvaccinated infant brothers or sisters too young for the immunizations? To elderly relatives?

Spreads it all over the grocery store and reaches those also compromised? Again, nothing fascist about enforcing standards that benefit the public health, we have many laws in teh US that do so.

Your attitude is tough **** for everyone else. The govts is the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

(Not to mention the real chance that your unvaccinated kid is still at risk. Greater risk than getting the vaccine. There's no logic there, just IMO knee-jerk rebellion against "the system.") But knowing you, you're just arguing to argue :)
 
Lursa said:
And no one is forcing the kids to get vaccinations. If parents choose not to, their kids just cant go to public school....the parents can just make other educational arrangements for their kids.
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See, I don't understand -- my kids always had to have a completed vaccination card before they could be enrolled in school anyway. I don't know when this changed.
 
Lursa said:
Exactly, and that's why I posted consulting with your pediatrician first. If your child has allergy or immune system issues, etc, then they likely wont recommend it **and** your child will benefit from the herd immunity of the majority of others that were vaccinated.
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Yes. It is also worth noting that dangerously severe allergic reactions to injectable substances start very, very fast. You'll begin to see it before you even leave the office. And your doctor will have the tools to reverse the reaction, in the vast majority of cases.

While especially extreme reactions do lead to death on extremely rare occasion (just like everything else in the world, from peanuts to aspirin), nearly all reactions can be treated on the spot.

Less severe reactions may take a couple hours, but you also would have plenty of time to get back to the doctor if need be, as the symptoms are slower and not as dangerous.

I have actually dealt with this myself. I had a cat who was severely allergic to something in vaccines. We were able to treat her immediately, and she was fine. This is the only reaction I have ever seen in any animal of any species -- it's rare. But yes, it happens. And she never got another vaccine again.

But because she was a cat and so many cats never get vaccines, she didn't benefit from herd immunity the way humans often do. And that meant I had to keep her quarantined from any other unknown cats for the rest of her life. Even if I pet a stray, I washed my hands and changed pants when I came in, because FeLuk can be caught even from saliva, and is invariably fatal once contracted.

If she'd been a human in a population of other humans, nearly all of whom were vaccinated, this wouldn't have been such a concern.
 
Bodhisattva said:
They can and do send them to school... as I already showed.
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More and more schools are making sure they cannot, without medical and in some cases, religious basis.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Not really. Vaccinations don't always work. They can also wear off. Some kids can't. Some kids are harmed by them. Some kids almost die. Some do die.
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Yea really. Plenty died and were harmed BEFORE there were vaccinations. That's why we have them. Nothing in this life is 100% but the odds are certainly better when all are vaccinated. I guess I could go with the Fishking and keep them home schooled with no contact with others but I don't think that is realistic. We get boosters here in the US and MANY will die and be harmed if it stops.
 
Lursa said:
And what if, as pointed out, your child cannot be vaccinated? Due to allergies, compromised immune system? Take the microbes home to their unvaccinated infant brothers or sisters too young for the immunizations? To elderly relatives?

Spreads it all over the grocery store and reaches those also compromised? Again, nothing fascist about enforcing standards that benefit the public health, we have many laws in teh US that do so.

Your attitude is tough **** for everyone else. The govts is the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

(Not to mention the real chance that your unvaccinated kid is still at risk. Greater risk than getting the vaccine. There's no logic there, just IMO knee-jerk rebellion against "the system.") But knowing you, you're just arguing to argue :)
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Then those affected hit the life aint fair square. Happens to lots of innocent people including kids getting vaccinated when they have an severe adverse reaction.
 
Hari Seldon said:
Yea really. Plenty died and were harmed BEFORE there were vaccinations. That's why we have them. Nothing in this life is 100% but the odds are certainly better when all are vaccinated. I guess I could go with the Fishking and keep them home schooled with no contact with others but I don't think that is realistic. We get boosters here in the US and MANY will die and be harmed if it stops.
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Then get vaccinated. Problem solved.
 
Lursa said:
More and more schools are making sure they cannot, without medical and in some cases, religious basis.
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That should be illegal... unless the give tax breaks for denying access to a public institution.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Then those affected hit the life aint fair square. Happens to lots of innocent people including kids getting vaccinated when they have an severe adverse reaction.
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No one has said anything about fair, period. No one claims life is fair, so it's not much of a point here.

But to address that phrasing, the govt has decided to lower the risks to be as fair to the largest number of Americans as possible.
 
Lursa said:
That if you consult your pediatrician and he recommends the vaccinations are safe for your child, and you dont do it, you are a very ignorant and dangerous parent.
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Well these parents know SO much more than the docs.
The autism link has been debunked so many times
 
Superfly said:
With fatal diseases that can kill you?

No, they don't. You can't get polio from a toilet seat.
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Vaccines didn't stop polio... clean sanitation and better hygiene did.
 
YorkshirePete said:
Well these parents know SO much more than the docs.
The autism link has been debunked so many times
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Who here said vaccines cause autism?

Or are you just making **** up for no reason?
 
Bodhisattva said:
That should be illegal... unless the give tax breaks for denying access to a public institution.
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Would it be legal then to make all the parents of unvaccinated kids pay for the medical bills and funeral expenses of the kids that get sick and die of those diseases?

That makes about as much sense as your post.

Schools can kick kids out of school for all sorts of reasons to protect the health and learning experiences of the other kids. And millions of people without school age kids pay the same taxes...and we all deserve whatever protection can come from vaccinations in schools....little hives of kids where many things can breed.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Then get vaccinated. Problem solved.
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I did. And so did my kids. Its a requirement for NY college students. They are very healthy aside from soccer injuries. (Its always something, a knee, ankle etc..) I don't think vaccinations have any impact on those.
 
Lursa said:
No one has said anything about fair, period. No one claims life is fair, so it's not much of a point here.

But to address that phrasing, the govt has decided to lower the risks to be as fair to the largest number of Americans as possible.
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The entire take the vaccine argument is about life not being fair and trying to make it fair :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
The entire take the vaccine argument is about life not being fair and trying to make it fair :lol:
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Maybe yours is.

Every single argument can probably be distilled down to that, so I call BS.
 
Parents should be able to refuse to vaccinate their children for any reason they see fit. Just like school boards are allowed to make policies to refuse acceptance of unvaccinated children.

There are many reasons not to do it, including religious reasons. The reason doesn't have to be logically satisfactory to scientists and statists. Medical procedures should always be 100% voluntary.

Anything less than that is not indicative of a free society.
 
Lursa said:
Sources for that please.
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History and common sense. Improved sanitation stops a fecal based disease not a vaccine. FDR got his by swimming in the Hudson with sewage strewn fecal matter...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Vaccines didn't stop polio... clean sanitation and better hygiene did.
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Well, **** me. All of those awards that Jonas Salk won, the biological institute that he designed and had built - all of that was for naught, because all kids really needed to do was just wash their hands.

Hogwash.
 
Lursa said:
Maybe yours is.

Every single argument can probably be distilled down to that, so I call BS.
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Exact opposite Lursa. Mine is the counter to the "life should be fair to kids that vaccines dont work on and some kids cant get vaccines" argument because "that is what is best for society". :lol:
 
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