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US to Begin Removing 12,000 Troops From Germany ‘Within Weeks’

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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US to Begin Removing 12,000 Troops From Germany ‘Within Weeks’

The Pentagon says this is about Russia. Trump says it’s about Germany.

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7/29/20
The U.S. will move 11,900 troops from Germany beginning within weeks, Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced on Wednesday, providing some of the first concrete details of a murky withdrawal plan sought by President Donald Trump. The cuts will bring the U.S. force in Germany down by one-third, from roughly 36,000 to 24,000 troops. But not all will be leaving Europe or staying in the United States for long. About 5,600 will be repositioned within NATO countries, including Belgium and Italy. And “many” of the 6,400 who will return to the United States will begin conducting rotational deployments back to Europe, including potentially into Poland and the vulnerable Baltic states, Pentagon leaders said. Speaking to reporters at the Pentagon, Esper struggled to reconcile the Defense Department’s claim that the cuts are a strategic move designed to better counter Russia and China with Trump’s repeated public insistence that he ordered the drawdown to penalize Germany for being “delinquent” in its defense spending. The process will likely cost “single-digit” billions of dollars, Esper said. Gen. John Hyten, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called that figure “a rough estimate.”

Trump undercut Pentagon assertions that the move is aimed at Russia. "They take advantage of us on trade, and they take advantage of us on the military,” Trump said of Germany, speaking to White House reporters, also on Wednesday morning. “So we're reducing the force because they’re not paying their bills. It's very simple. They’re delinquent.” Trump has repeatedly made similar statements over the last month. "So we're protecting Germany and they're delinquent. That doesn't make sense,” the president told White House reporters on June 15. “So I said, we're going to bring down the count to 25,000 soldiers." Regular Trump critic Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, called the plan "a grave error" and "a gift to Russia." "It is a slap in the face at a friend and ally when we should instead be drawing closer in our mutual commitment to deter Russian and Chinese aggression," Romney said in a statement. "The move may temporarily play well in domestic politics, but its consequences will be lasting and harmful to American interests.“ “This is a very bad strategic move for the US. Pulling troops out of Germany hurts us much more than it hurts our allies,” said former commander of U.S. Army Europe, Gen. Mark Hertling, in a tweet.
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First off, I'll correct a Trump lie. There is no mandate/rule that NATO nations spend 2% of their GDP on defense. This figure was established at the NATO Wales Summit of 2014 only as a "guideline". This NATO 2% of GDP spending "guideline" will be revisited by the NATO nations in 2024. So then, no NATO nations are "delinquent" as Mr. Trump constantly states.

This Trump ordered move of US troops from Germany will cost the US many billions of dollars. 5,600 of the US troops removed from Germany (1.38% of GDP ) will be re-positioned in Italy (1.22% of GDP) and Belgium (0.93% of GDP). In other words, Trump is punishing Germany for not spending enough on defense by moving German-based US troops to Italy and Belgium, which spend less on defense than Germany.
NATO Defense Expenditures (2019)

Trumps spending excuse is BS. This move will, by omission or commission, improve the European strategic situation for Russia. Champagne will be flowing at the Kremlin.
 
It's about damn time. Why should I spend my tax money to defend another country if they don't care enough to spend their own money? Pull them ALL out.
 
gino said:
It's about damn time. Why should I spend my tax money to defend another country if they don't care enough to spend their own money? Pull them ALL out.
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Clue to the clueless: the troops are not being brought home, they are being relocated to other countries. Maybe you should consider the fact that when you redeploy you have to build new operations building, barracks, housing, and airfields and training centers. This will cost us Billions and for what? It isn't because Germany is not paying their fair share they pay more than some of the countries we would redeploy to and if a fight did occur with Russia we would have further to go to get to the fight. This is all about Trump's childish hate for the German Chancler. Thanks God he is running out of time, going to take a lot of time and hard work to clean up the mess trump will be leaving behind.
 
Casper said:
Clue to the clueless: the troops are not being brought home, they are being relocated to other countries. Maybe you should consider the fact that when you redeploy you have to build new operations building, barracks, housing, and airfields and training centers. This will cost us Billions and for what? It isn't because Germany is not paying their fair share they pay more than some of the countries we would redeploy to and if a fight did occur with Russia we would have further to go to get to the fight. This is all about Trump's childish hate for the German Chancler. Thanks God he is running out of time, going to take a lot of time and hard work to clean up the mess trump will be leaving behind.
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They are being redeployed to nations that give a crap though. Poland is dirt poor compared to germany yet they take their security serious, bulgaria is the poorest nato nation, yet they are more ready and capable than germany the richest nato nation, it shows how germany let their military collapse while other nato countries who feel threatened helped themselves as much as possible before asking for help.

If the poorest nato nation and second poorest nation in europe can beat the ruchest in europe in nato obligation, it literally says ngermany does not care and in my view if they flat out refuse to care or contribute they deserve to be over run, the us military is not a charity case nor is nato so member nations can spend as little as possible on their own military.
 
gino said:
It's about damn time. Why should I spend my tax money to defend another country if they don't care enough to spend their own money? Pull them ALL out.
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While were at why don't we just surrender to Putin and save even more money on our military? We will let him protect us.
 
Rogue Valley said:
US to Begin Removing 12,000 Troops From Germany ‘Within Weeks’

The Pentagon says this is about Russia. Trump says it’s about Germany.

860x394.jpg



First off, I'll correct a Trump lie. There is no mandate/rule that NATO nations spend 2% of their GDP on defense. This figure was established at the NATO Wales Summit of 2014 only as a "guideline". This NATO 2% of GDP spending "guideline" will be revisited by the NATO nations in 2024. So then, no NATO nations are "delinquent" as Mr. Trump constantly states.

This Trump ordered move of US troops from Germany will cost the US many billions of dollars. 5,600 of the US troops removed from Germany (1.38% of GDP ) will be re-positioned in Italy (1.22% of GDP) and Belgium (0.93% of GDP). In other words, Trump is punishing Germany for not spending enough on defense by moving German-based US troops to Italy and Belgium, which spend less on defense than Germany.
NATO Defense Expenditures (2019)

Trumps spending excuse is BS. This move will, by omission or commission, improve the European strategic situation for Russia. Champagne will be flowing at the Kremlin.
Click to expand...

He's doing this to please Putin, our money has nothing to do with it. If it was his money it would be a different story.
 
iguanaman said:
While were at why don't we just surrender to Putin and save even more money on our military? We will let him protect us.
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Funny how depending on what trump says that day many on the left are for the US being the worlds police one day and want us to stop being involved militarily with other countries the next.
I guess that makes sense when you realize that to many on the left the only thing that matters is wanting the opposite of what trump wants. No matter what that might be.
 
The entire purpose of NATO was to keep Germany down and the Soviets out so Europe could rebuild.

The Germans are not a military threat to anyone in 2020 so there is no reason for keeping 35,000 troops there.
 
iguanaman said:
He's doing this to please Putin, our money has nothing to do with it. If it was his money it would be a different story.
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This is just another example of the autocratic manner in which Trump governs. Give me your total loyalty and devotion or else.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel hasn't hesitated to criticize Trump and refused to terminate NordStream-2. This US troop pullout from Germany is Trumps punishment.

Trump is on an abbreviated timescale and has to accomplish all of his personal vendetta's by January 19, 2021.
 
Rogue Valley said:
This is just another example of the autocratic manner in which Trump governs. Give me your total loyalty and devotion or else.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel hasn't hesitated to criticize Trump and refused to terminate NordStream-2. This US troop pullout from Germany is Trumps punishment.

Trump is on an abbreviated timescale and has to accomplish all of his personal vendetta's by January 19, 2021.
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Luckily like most of Trump orders, this one can be easily reversed by Biden when he takes office. He is going to one busy President in the 1st 6 months of his term.
 
Lost in this mess is also the fact that U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) will have to move its headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany. The command has already begun the planning process. However, no destination has been decided upon. Three options... 1) relocate in a different European nation, 2) relocate in the US like CENTCOM in Tampa, 3) relocate to the African continent. The European option is probably the most likely. Pentagon people say the move will take months to plan and would take over a year to implement. It is thought that Joe Biden would probably reverse Trump's German transfer orders.
 
The principal global strategy of Russia and China is to separate USA allies from the US.

Putin built Trump to do that.

Then he gave Trump Rowers to get 'em there.

The USA isolated in the world with as many of its forces withdrawn to the continental US is the dream come true for Putin and the CCP-PRC. Pentagon has known this for as long as the enemy scheme has existed.
 
Tangmo said:
The principal global strategy of Russia and China is to separate USA allies from the US.

Putin built Trump to do that.

Then he gave Trump Rowers to get 'em there.

The USA isolated in the world with as many of its forces withdrawn to the continental US is the dream come true for Putin and the CCP-PRC. Pentagon has known this for as long as the enemy scheme has existed.
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These Rowers you babble about?

Are they going solo in kayaks or sculls?

Or are a bunch of them going old school and rocking a bireme or trireme?
 
Is Rowers a normal phrase as I've never come across it before?
 
RetiredUSN said:
The entire purpose of NATO was to keep Germany down and the Soviets out so Europe could rebuild.

The Germans are not a military threat to anyone in 2020 so there is no reason for keeping 35,000 troops there.
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Not to mention the fact that the geopolitical dynamic has changed post Soviet break up. Germany was never really expected to be defended in a conventional war at the height of the cold war anyway. The Soviets had so many more tanks and artillery capable to throw into the battle that the best that Germany would be was the place where NATO fought the war so as to preserve France and the other Western European economic allies from being occupied.

Germany will continue to pay a price for their part in the two world wars of the last century many more years into this century. Germany ain't France, no reason to keep American troops there especially if Germany is going to continue to act like they are wearing big boy pants big enough to play footsie with Putin anyway.
 
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